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Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: justinp61] #2369546
09/12/17 06:08 PM
09/12/17 06:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
b1dartsport Offline
super stock
b1dartsport  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
Whats lost in all of this is, What do the fans,who ultimately pay all the bills, want to see? I would only watch NHRA or go to an event to see the outcome of PS and some of the Super Stock classes. I would not go now if given free tickets to watch a bunch of NA funny car Camaros. In the old days of Pro Stock it was pure excitement and a war between brands and brand loyalty and usually standing room only at National events. Why leave these decisions up to clowns who are a scab on the back of inventive smart Racers and Multi Million dollar Race Teams that have a distorted view of what is needed. As in any other entertainment Venue such as Movies or sports, if the fans don't like what they see they don't go anymore. If NHRA sent a Questionnaire to its Membership, I would almost guarantee most of us would want stock body cars with stock engine blocks at equal weight and have at it. Just my 2 pennies

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Dave Hall] #2369565
09/12/17 06:34 PM
09/12/17 06:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline OP
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline OP
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
Been there done that so I know the sounds and the smells. Like football I now enjoy it more from home. No lines no 4.00 for a small bottle of water, no mile walk from the parking lot, fast forward on All Access for 99.00 a year and watch what I want when I want. I would love to go to Norwalk this weekend to watch the fastest heads up cars in the country but hopefully I can participate in at least the 8.50 class out there next year


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369607
09/12/17 07:46 PM
09/12/17 07:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
It's not only the National Events either.

In Div 1, there used to be a reasonable turn out for a divisional race or national open.
Now, the stands are pretty much vacant.

The interest just isn't there.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369621
09/12/17 08:09 PM
09/12/17 08:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline OP
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline OP
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
Just announced. Top fuel harly will be at 10 events next year.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369646
09/12/17 08:29 PM
09/12/17 08:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,394
Ambridge, Pa.
R
rickraw Offline
top fuel
rickraw  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,394
Ambridge, Pa.
Rather watch them then pro stock.

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: rickraw] #2369695
09/12/17 10:13 PM
09/12/17 10:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,130
Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
master
LA360  Offline
master

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Posts: 6,130
Melbourne , Australia
It's a money thing, as has already been mentioned, the millionaires like Ken Black have essentially killed the class. It's their playground, they'll keep playing, even if no one else is watching.


Alan Jones
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369792
09/13/17 12:05 AM
09/13/17 12:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Michigan
K
Kiddart Offline
pro stock
Kiddart  Offline
pro stock
K

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Michigan
Al Alguire,
I agree with your statement. But what I see the NHRA has done is taken the keys out of the hands of the common blue collar guy. If I want to go race at a competitive level its at least $500 a weekend. that figures in the costs of everything. Most guys don't have that liquid cash laying around. Most of us don't have a chassis cert that should be required for weekend bracket racing. I really think if the NHRA did something with weight like they do with the Pro Stock Bikes with Pro Stock maybe, just maybe the Mopar and ford guys can compete. I have done everything in my Power to keep my son in the hobby. he has a 67 Belvedere and is restoring to his liking nobody else's. I think its cool. another thing is the NHRA brand is gone, very few young folks know what that is. I had a young kid come up to me at Milan this last weekend saying that he appreciates me being a NRA member. I have a NHRA sticker on my rear window?? NHRA is doing a very poor job educating and selling the sport. I have applied to the nhra but haven't been hired, maybe next year. it tough to get hired to run the operation the way you feel it should be run.

it did seem to run better when it was race on Sunday, sell on Monday.

If I am out of line I am sorry.

Kids are the future, take a kid to a car show and they are hooked, take a Kid to a NHRA event and they think its cool?

Crazy


Thank you
Kiddart
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369822
09/13/17 12:50 AM
09/13/17 12:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 239
Lawton, MI
Headhunter22 Offline
enthusiast
Headhunter22  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 239
Lawton, MI
My take only. Match races. Get the cars, fuel, pro stock, anything out to the smaller tracks and venues. Start at the grassroots, advertise it and people will come. I grew up watching match racing and watching small events. The testing rules have really derailed expanding the product. Just my opinion but I remember watching these cars / teams as a kid and pretty tough to see the sport and what I thought it was whither.

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Al_Alguire] #2369859
09/13/17 02:02 AM
09/13/17 02:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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SRT6776 Offline
I hate internal combustion engines!
SRT6776  Offline
I hate internal combustion engines!
S

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Well IMO the entire sport is dying a slow death. The problem as I see it is how do you get the next generation involved? Sure the Jr programs help but those are already racing families to begin with. They need to find a way to get kids who are NOT already in racing families involved too. Even in racing families I think participation of the next group is at an all time low..


The next generation (20's),and even the generation behind them (teens / kids) are heavily interested, but they are still in their infancy and are absolutely not interested in NHRA type stuff besides fuel cars for the wow factor. Go peruse the comment section of any 1320 video and the like and you'll see what I mean.

From what I gather: They love street racing / outlaw stuff, dislike LS swaps into everything, enjoy variety of cars/engines, not particularly brand loyal, don't know the difference between a wrench and a starter.

Its a start.

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Dave Hall] #2369879
09/13/17 03:19 AM
09/13/17 03:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 257
Way North Idaho
1
1KoolBee Offline
enthusiast
1KoolBee  Offline
enthusiast
1

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 257
Way North Idaho
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
. To be honest, the thrill has waned for me too and I am just not interested in an imported commuter box turned race car. Camry! Let's Go Places!!! How about back to fukken JAPAN!!!


I hear you! When Camry's & other econoboxes started racing it killed it for me too. Even in TF/FC, it turns my stomach to watch a bunch of clone bodies with a sticker kit go at it with essentially the same hardware. I'd much rather watch bracket or Nostalgia classes. I used to be an avid Nascar fan too, not any more, same reason. Then there's the stupid "playoffs" or "Chase" or whatever. Its like the more they try to commercialize and mainstream the sport the worse it gets. The only motorsports that I find remotely interesting on TV these days is IMSA, MotoGP, and Supercross. Strong brand loyalty, strong semblance of showroom PERFORMANCE machines, and production-based bodies/motors. A lot of the young guys these days are into Drift and Rally, what do you suppose the common theme is there?

Its not hard, NASCAR and NHRA had it figured out 50 years ago, they just went stupid with "new" ideas.


'68 Bee 383/TF/Factory Air...high school sweetheart
'67 GTX Clone project,500 six pack,Hemi4-speed,Dana
05 Dodge Viper, 505 V-10, 6-speed Tremec
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369881
09/13/17 03:43 AM
09/13/17 03:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
P
Porter67 Offline
master
Porter67  Offline
master
P

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
. To be honest, the thrill has waned for me too and I am just not interested in an imported commuter box turned race car. Camry! Let's Go Places!!! How about back to fukken JAPAN!!!

Thats gonna go over well.

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Porter67] #2369902
09/13/17 08:09 AM
09/13/17 08:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel
Dave Hall  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
I hope it goes over like a turd in the punch bowl and wakes someone up. Toyota in NHRA and NASCAR. What a freaking farce! Why not BMW, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai??? It's all fake and everyone knows it. THIS is the problem.

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2369907
09/13/17 08:33 AM
09/13/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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Spaceman Spiff Offline
master
Spaceman Spiff  Offline
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S

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Posts: 3,696
jersey
No prep, radial, and outlaw races are immensely popular, to the point where tracks have to turn people away at the gate...
And you can only see them by being there, or live stream...
Big payouts, and big car counts, and big spectator draw.

The sport isn't dying. The nhra is.
And there is more to drag racing than the nhra.


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: 1KoolBee] #2369924
09/13/17 10:09 AM
09/13/17 10:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 621
Iowa
C
coronetville Offline
mopar
coronetville  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 621
Iowa
life isnt fair, neither is NHRA or NASCAR

Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2369989
09/13/17 12:42 PM
09/13/17 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
No prep, radial, and outlaw races are immensely popular, to the point where tracks have to turn people away at the gate...
And you can only see them by being there, or live stream...
Big payouts, and big car counts, and big spectator draw.

The sport isn't dying. The nhra is.
And there is more to drag racing than the nhra.

iagree iagree iagree


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2370044
09/13/17 01:51 PM
09/13/17 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
No prep, radial, and outlaw races are immensely popular, to the point where tracks have to turn people away at the gate...
And you can only see them by being there, or live stream...
Big payouts, and big car counts, and big spectator draw.

The sport isn't dying. The nhra is.
And there is more to drag racing than the nhra.

iagree iagree iagree


X3


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2370070
09/13/17 02:26 PM
09/13/17 02:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
Brand loyalty...... And drifting?

You mean like when they put an LS motor in a BMW or Nissan 200SX?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: pittsburghracer] #2370082
09/13/17 02:40 PM
09/13/17 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
There's definitely less brand loyalty these days.


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Dave Hall] #2370184
09/13/17 05:00 PM
09/13/17 05:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,458
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
Rhinotruck
Rhinodart  Offline
Rhinotruck

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Posts: 43,458
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
IASCAR was the most spectated sport in the WORLD. Don't know about now. It's still probably pretty high on the list. NHRA did try to incorporate some of IASCAR's ideas (countdown, etc,) and has done a fair job of it. The big factor with NHRA is TV. It doesn't film well and TV coverage is nothing like being at the race. TV does not show how ridiculously quick and violent the cars are. Even the TV show one minute 1/8 mile runs with all the added tire squealing sounds doesn't come close to actually seeing the cars run. Add in the smells and sounds that are non existent on TV and you have a real loser. Sponsors are getting a tax write off and that's it. They are still spending the money but in no way is it a viable marketing venture. I have been to the Sonoma Nat. event, since it's inception, as a spectator or a participant and can tell you that fan participation when Pro Stock comes up has decreased steadily over that nearly 30 year time span. Fuel classes come up and the stands fill, fuel classes over and the stands empty. I have participated the last 4 or 5 years in Phoenix and Seattle and the yo-yo grandstand effect isn't nearly as noticeable as Sonoma. Fans pack the Utah Rocky Mountain Raceways Division 7 event. I don't know what the difference is besides locale. It seems to me that Pro Stock is not really the issue here as fuel fields are rarely full this year. Lose Force or Schumacher Racing and you've got a HUGE problem. My only thought is to maybe get some type of WiFi interaction with the head in my phone crowd. Apps for betting and fantasy drag racing and video and chicks and on and on... TV is NOT the answer, it seriously doesn't translate. I think it has to start with a renewed interest in the sport instead of the same old same old... Generally people are not interested in things that they can't afford to participate in. This steady decline has been going on for years and started with the imported car in the driveway and the closing of all the speed shops. I don't know about you but I can't stand the sight of Toyota emblems on a fuel car injector. Did that company actually do ANY r&d or engineering on ONE bolt of that engine? NHRA Pro's are whores, just like our US government personnel. To be honest, the thrill has waned for me too and I am just not interested in an imported commuter box turned race car. Camry! Let's Go Places!!! How about back to fukken JAPAN!!!


Couldn't have said it better... bow Went to the U.S. Nationals in Indy again, took the last couple years off. Sad to see the track about 1/3 empty on a Friday. frown


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: THE DEBATE OF NHRA PRO STOCK'S FUTURE CONTINUES [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2370195
09/13/17 05:17 PM
09/13/17 05:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 258
Cochise Co, Az, From Detroit
moetown Offline
enthusiast
moetown  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 258
Cochise Co, Az, From Detroit
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
No prep, radial, and outlaw races are immensely popular, to the point where tracks have to turn people away at the gate...
And you can only see them by being there, or live stream...
Big payouts, and big car counts, and big spectator draw.

The sport isn't dying. The nhra is.
And there is more to drag racing than the nhra.





X4.
Pro stock died when it became a GM competitive only class. It just took 15 years to throw dirt on the grave. Not enough cars to fill 16 car fields.
No rule change for pro stock now will have any large impact on crowd or viewer size. That ship sailed and sunk.

Long term, NHRA can either add classes that younger people want to see, or close it's doors. I will give Clifford credit, he is at least trying new ideas. So maybe there is hope.

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