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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500435
05/25/18 08:07 PM
05/25/18 08:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
ForcedInductions Offline OP
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so i pulled her out of storage, fired up instantly
was very impressed, threw it in neutral let it all get warm
when i went to put it in drive. i had nothing.
reverse is instant and nice like how its always been.

giving her some rev engages forward motion.
almost as if its not getting proper pressure.
trans level is good. but i drained the oil anyways.
nothing on the magnetic drain plug. filled it back up.

reverse is strong, forward feels like a burnt out clutch on a manual.
requiring some revs to make it engage.
i decided to take her for a small spin, after the initial "slip"
or lack of engagement in first seemed to be ok and goes to second.
then feels like going neutral to drive etc as if it was out of fluid.
third does the same.

its only got about 40 hours of driving on the rebuild and was fine at the end of last season.

i would assume one of the bands are out of spec?
would it be the exterior adjuster or the one in the pan?
or am i looking and pulling it out again and redoing seals/clutches etc?

another note cooler gets warm and the fluid never got hot enough to burn me.
(180F or under) always feels like a hot oil change.

Last edited by ForcedInductions; 05/25/18 08:07 PM.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500471
05/25/18 09:52 PM
05/25/18 09:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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sounds like the forward clutch to me, that is the one that is engaged in all the forward gears except for neutral and park, could be a worn out set of clutches or a piston sealing ring blow out,, as far as the 2-3 shift the band is what accomplishes that and the adjuster is the one on the outside of the case, low reverse is the inner one.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500519
05/26/18 12:17 AM
05/26/18 12:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
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can the TCI
(super pro or master race kit i forget which it was)
burn off that quick?
also wouldnt there be debris in the pan/magnet?

there was no indication of slip
(feels more like lazy to engage or needs more pressure)
until i pulled it out of storage
haven't even had any serious burnouts
aside from the baby ones linked above
not even any hard launches.

ill try the band before pulling it out.
***unless someone suggests not to bother and just pull it***
its never been adjusted since its rebuild
sat for 12 years and only done about 500 miles.

prior to changing everything out to the TCI
it was on stock internals for a lot of abuse.
about 5 years, millions of burnouts and launches.

Last edited by ForcedInductions; 05/26/18 12:24 AM.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500627
05/26/18 11:27 AM
05/26/18 11:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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can the TCI
(super pro or master race kit i forget which it was)
burn off that quick?
It can if run with improper pressure. Did you not run this previously with no throttle pressure linkage attached? Complain of soft 2/3? Adjusting the intermediate band will do nothing. It is used for 2nd gear only. My bet is you've wounded the rear clutch for sure, probable more.
Doug

Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500662
05/26/18 12:51 PM
05/26/18 12:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
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yeah i've always ran the trans at full pressure no linkage attached.
and always had the 2-3 shift softness, i learned to let off and let it engage.
or if i was putting around town id leave it in D and let it do its thing.
i did notice i down shift to first a lot now then before.
but it grabs fine on downshifts not sure if the 727 likes that.

im guessing just a bad seal. i never smelled anything like a clutch burning.
it does grab and pull till it doesn't and feels like gone to neutral, as if starving for fluid.
will even pulse like pump was finally getting fluid/pressure then losing it over and over.

only reason why i freshened up everything was because it was already out.
whats the best way to test? pull pan and do the air test?

for a minute or two. it was stuck in only forward. gave no neutral. it done this as i was parking it for the winter,
i didn't think of it because it was so brief, i passed it off to possibly melting the shift cable.

it did it again for me the other day when i pulled it out.
but once i got it to go in reverse/neutral again. symptoms came back.
being slow forward engagement and i guess slipping when giving it extra power.
while it was stuck in forward mode. it would go through all gears perfectly.

ill have it on the hoist next month and pull the pan down.
suggestions and pointers what to check first before i commit to yanking it.
does give me an excuse to go through the whole motor too.
as its much easier for me to pull both out at once.

engine stand been alone in the corner for 12 years.

Last edited by ForcedInductions; 05/26/18 12:55 PM.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500664
05/26/18 01:09 PM
05/26/18 01:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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You can pull the pan and do a pressure test but
get ready to pull the trans.. I'm sure you cooked
the clutch
wave

Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500696
05/26/18 03:10 PM
05/26/18 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Originally Posted By ForcedInductions


for a minute or two. it was stuck in only forward. gave no neutral.


Classic symptoms of a rear clutch failure; fairly common after mods that raise the line pressure and/or accumulator mods.

No sense wasting time on air checks, pull it out.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500706
05/26/18 03:58 PM
05/26/18 03:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
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any recommended rebuilt kit and manual valve body?

its very odd ran it like this for years.
after a rebuild i'm having the issue.
i hope its something stupid like a failed seal.

starting to wish i went manual (clutch peddle is still in the car)

how are 904s? i think i had one in my 2001 5.9 diesel cummins.
and i put it through hell. 600hp 1000+ torque. pulled, burnouts in 4x4 etc. put 423,000 km on it without a single issue.

Last edited by ForcedInductions; 05/26/18 04:03 PM.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500712
05/26/18 04:21 PM
05/26/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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After this last post I'm calling BS on the whole post.

Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500725
05/26/18 05:40 PM
05/26/18 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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904s are great, but if you had one in your diesel truck it was sliding around in the bed.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: CMcAllister] #2500768
05/26/18 08:14 PM
05/26/18 08:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
904s are great, but if you had one in your diesel truck it was sliding around in the bed.
I agree with that, that truck had a 48re if I remember correct, my 93 diesel has a 618 which is a off shoot of the 727, it go's back to what I said earlier, fried clutch's or a blown sealing ring at the apply piston, the intermediate band can affect the shift quality of 2-3 shift.

Last edited by dartman366; 05/26/18 08:15 PM.

Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500777
05/26/18 08:32 PM
05/26/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Lots of things can effect the 2-3 shift. His issue sounds like a forward clutch problem at least. Time to take it out and take it apart and look at it.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: CMcAllister] #2500782
05/26/18 08:35 PM
05/26/18 08:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
Lots of things can effect the 2-3 shift. His issue sounds like a forward clutch problem at least. Time to take it out and take it apart and look at it.
that is my opinion also and why I mentioned it first. up


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500964
05/27/18 11:48 AM
05/27/18 11:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
ForcedInductions Offline OP
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here is a video i made for when it was up for sale.
the entire mod list was in the window.



sorry for thinking it was a 904, the post even says i think i had one in the truck.

the transmission did very well though. all it got was a torque converter upgrade.

ive seen 4L60E (chevy) hold up in turbo 6.0 vehicles.
but id hate to put in a chevy trans but i do have a spare one.

what is so bs about the entire post?
the car was on the road 2001 to 2005.
taken apart then reassembled to its current state last year.
everything is shown in my tare down buildup and assembly links.

Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2500970
05/27/18 12:07 PM
05/27/18 12:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
ForcedInductions Offline OP
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transmissions previous life, no kickdown/throttle cable


it pulled out


after rebuild (old clutches showed nothing serious)


after sos pads and some high temp clear coat


as you can see none of the photos even have the arm for the kick down/throttle cable and was run at near wide open

dont get me wrong ive never done any work to auto transmissions.
i prefer manuals but i had the 727 and was young and had low income on the first build.
and everyone tells me how great the 727 is so i kept it.
im just sad that if it was something i did or just a bad component.

i cant see my brief shifting habits last season being worse then how i drove it years ago and it did the same 2-3 shifts then as it did now.

Last edited by ForcedInductions; 05/27/18 12:13 PM.
Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2501001
05/27/18 02:10 PM
05/27/18 02:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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The kick down isn't really just a kick down device. It varies the transmission pressure. More throttle, more pressure holding the the bands and clutches. When you add power you need enough pressure to keep the components clamped to keep them from slipping. You added power and it slipped. Pretty simple. Take it out, you'll find damage. I'd suggest a manual valve body in your application. That way there is no throttle pressure linkage or cable.
Doug

Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift, Guru help please!!! [Re: ForcedInductions] #2501017
05/27/18 03:24 PM
05/27/18 03:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
ForcedInductions Offline OP
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Alright. I'll post results when I have it out

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