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#2389713 - 10/19/17 06:46 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: sixpackgut]
fbs63 Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 1150
Loc: NW Indiana
I don't see why you couldn't tube the pushrod hole like they do with Gen II Hemi heads. Could remove most of the pinch that way.

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#2390631 - 10/20/17 11:12 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: fbs63]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8963
Loc: Charleston
You can. I tubed my eagle heads i run
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#2398411 - 11/04/17 01:23 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
cudaragtop Offline
member

Registered: 06/29/13
Posts: 7
Loc: Washington State
Following.
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#2398560 - 11/04/17 07:41 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Michigan
Are the Eddy's worth it vs using an Apache with basic port and bowl work and correct valve springs for application?

Whats the cost of a pair of OEM assembled Apache's?

At what point are the Eddy's worth buying?

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#2398692 - 11/05/17 05:25 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Sellersville Pa
This is the lowest price I found today for an Apache heads 845 +$150 Core charge.
now its for the Right side, left is about $100 more.


https://www.moparoem.net/oem-parts/mopar...ASAAEgJok_D_BwE


Edited by ric3xrt (11/05/17 05:28 AM)

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#2398737 - 11/05/17 08:37 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: ric3xrt]
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Michigan
OK, this is for an assembled head made from the better alloy and having the reinforced deck? Assembled BGE heads?

For N/A, wont the standard issue Apache's work? This is what Triple Threat uses and his setup is awesome.

When is Eddy head better than standard issue Apache for a Triple Threat type engine?

Seems like the standard OEM Eagle and Apache assembled heads are an awesome value for HP per dollar...

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#2398784 - 11/05/17 10:07 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Sellersville Pa
For NA, yeah the BGE is hard to beat, There doesn't seem to be a lot of feedback on the Eddy heads yet, and at $1300 for One head I'm surprised they are sold out(according to summit complete assembled head).
as for when is the Eddy a better head, I can't answer that. I don't know anyone personally that has them., the Intake manifold yes, I know 2 and they are split on how they feel, One loves it , the other put it on CL a week after he got it.

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#2398908 - 11/05/17 01:29 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: ric3xrt]
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Michigan
Cost difference from car 6.4 heads vs BGE?

For NA, you wouldn't need the BGE pieces right?

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#2399222 - 11/06/17 06:35 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Sellersville Pa
https://www.moparpartsoverstock.com/p/Je...68280511AB.html
For NA the SRT8 head would be fine

$640ish +150 Core


Edited by ric3xrt (11/06/17 06:38 AM)
_________________________
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda don't always acknowledge truth

1975 D-code D100
1975 D-code Ramcharger(swapping to a G3
1977 D-code Warlock
1977 D-Code D100
1978 D-code Mid Nite Express
1978 Lil Red
1979 Lil Red
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building
2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.

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#2399841 - 11/07/17 06:24 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Michigan
Anyone know combustion chamber sizes for eagle and apache?

Wondering what the compression would be for putting an eagle on a 6.4?

Maybe I'll start a new thread for this, what do you think?

Approx new prices for a NEW high comp (12/1 or better?) G3:

3500--OEM 6.4 shortblock,has steel crank
1500--OOTB eagle heads, change springs if needed
0720--ritter intake
1100--Dominator carb
0720--MSD-6 & harness
0700--dragpak type cam, suit to fit combo or use 6.4 cam
0420--lifters
8660--total

Add a few other new parts and maybe pickup other pieces used and have a NEW high comp motor for around 12K or less?

Get a used low mile 6.4 shortblock and it gets even better...

We know the rods and pistons are OEM, but these motors have proven to be strong and take lots of abuse. As much as I don't like the VVT configuration, people are locking this out and making big power reliably.

If you figure a moderate, but realistic 1.5 HP per cube, we get 588 HP for this 392 build. Go with 1.54 HP/cube and get 603 HP.

This seems like a lot of performance for an essentially "bolt-together" motor that wouldn't need a lot of support (if any) from a machine shop. Of course it would be advisable to measure and check/adjust everything as necessary.

Just a thought, as this is what we have readily available and to use with mostly new OEM pieces.

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#2399848 - 11/07/17 06:54 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
hudsonhornet7x Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Moparmitch, PM me if you are looking for a new 6.4 short block at a better price. Thanks
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#2399921 - 11/07/17 10:26 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
toddinNH Offline
member

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 7
Loc: NH, USA
What is this BGE head you all seem so high on? Not "high" high, but positive.

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#2399929 - 11/07/17 10:39 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: toddinNH]
hudsonhornet7x Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Originally Posted By toddinNH
What is this BGE head you all seem so high on? Not "high" high, but positive.


The BGE stands for Big Gas Engine. These are the 6.4 engines that come with the heavy duty ram trucks. The heads you mentioned are basically Hellcat type heads with a conventional intake bolt pattern instead of the supercharger intake.
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#2400072 - 11/07/17 03:28 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: toddinNH]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By toddinNH
What is this BGE head you all seem so high on? Not "high" high, but positive.


Best description froA2Speed web site

What is a “HEMI Big Gas Head”?
Think of it as a Hellcat head with a 6.4 intake manifold bolt pattern.

This is the head used in the RAM Truck equipped with the 6.4L HEMI, first made available in 2014. The HEMI Big Gas head was extensively redesigned by Dodge SRT engineers with keen focus on durability in a heavy duty environment.

Some key features:
Castings and Material: The casting is derived from the SRT8 Hellcat head, giving the Big Gas Heads substantially improved internal reinforcement and improved water jackets. They are also made of the same 356 T-6 aluminum alloy found in the Hellcat Head. (vs. the T319 modified alloy used in the Apache 6.4L head).

Valves: By our measurements the Big Gas intake valves are 54.3 mm (2.138”); exhaust valves are 42 mm (1.654”); the same size as the Apache’s. The Big Gas valve guides are stainless steel and seats are a modified steel alloy. Both the Big Gas and Apache valves have hollow stems to reduce inertial mass allowing for higher RPMs. Exhaust valves are sodium filled; when the exhaust valve gets hot, the sodium liquefies which in turn transfers heat from the valve head to the valve guides via a “cocktail shaker” effect induced by valve’s motion. This style of exhaust valve helps prevent hot spots in the combustion chamber & valve head which reduces the possibility of pre-ignition. Visually it’s apparent that the Big Gas valves are a different material or have a different coating then the Apache’s; but as of this writing I haven’t been able to get a spec for this.

Intake Ports: On both the 6.4L Apache and Big Gas HEMI heads no clean-up machining is necessary on the intake ports. When the heads are cast, a fine sand (AFS 90) is used around the intake port cores. This provides the intake ports with a smooth surface finish and exceptional flow characteristics. Intake valve angle on both heads is 18°.

Exhaust Ports: Experience has shown that the greatest gains in Gen III HEMI heads are found in the exhaust ports. The Big Gas exhaust ports have improved long turns, guide support and ceiling. Un-like the Apache, the Big Gas HEMI head has fine sand cast exhaust ports, the resulting smooth surface finish improves flow characteristics dramatically. Exhaust valve angle on both heads is 16.5°.

Combustion Chamber: The Apache and Big Gas heads have similar quench-free combustion chambers. The Apache chamber is 73.4 cc’s, we will be pouring both chambers next week, will report results in a new thread.

Valve Springs: The Big Gas and Apache heads come with the same valve springs; meaning that replacement is required for aftermarket cams.

In summary: In summary, the Big Gas head is an outstanding yet affordable option for boosted applications where cylinder pressure and thermal stresses are anticipated. It’s a great option for a naturally aspirated motor as well, particularly if it's bottle-fed.
_________________________
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda don't always acknowledge truth

1975 D-code D100
1975 D-code Ramcharger(swapping to a G3
1977 D-code Warlock
1977 D-Code D100
1978 D-code Mid Nite Express
1978 Lil Red
1979 Lil Red
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building
2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.

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#2400149 - 11/07/17 05:46 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: fbs63]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 10017
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Originally Posted By fbs63
Here are some pics of the heads. I bought them bare so we could try a few things with them. One nice thing is they come with no valve job so you have material to work with.


Thanks for posting pics of my new heads. I think Ray just received them, hopefully he can do a mild clean up on them. Probably going on an aluminum 6.1 block...
_________________________
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB
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'70 Cuda Hemi, 605 almost ready again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.31)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

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#2400162 - 11/07/17 06:05 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: moparts]
toddinNH Offline
member

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 7
Loc: NH, USA
Originally Posted By hudsonhornet7x

The BGE stands for Big Gas Engine. These are the 6.4 engines that come with the heavy duty ram trucks. The heads you mentioned are basically Hellcat type heads with a conventional intake bolt pattern instead of the supercharger intake.
Originally Posted By ric3xrt

Best description froA2Speed web site

What is a “HEMI Big Gas Head”?
Think of it as a Hellcat head with a 6.4 intake manifold bolt pattern....etc.


Thanks gents! I now know all I need to know about BGE heads. It seems like they are the pick of the litter in factory Gen 3 heads. 356-T6 is a huge improvement.

It's pretty impressive that a gas powered NA production truck has hollow stem intakes and sodium filled exhaust valves. One would have to think that the valves are a stainless alloy. My guess would be a 21-4N, which would assist in the "durability in a heavy duty environment" parameter. If this paragraph proves to be in error, I'll eat a hat..my own.

I just searched and found pictures of the assembled BGE heads. The valves are definitely coated with at least a different color, but I will assume that the coatings too, are part of that "durability in a heavy duty environment" bit.

Thanks again to you both. School was painless today.


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#2400173 - 11/07/17 06:16 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: toddinNH]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8963
Loc: Charleston
With indy gasket


Attachments
20171107_181329.jpg


_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2400215 - 11/07/17 07:23 PM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: sixpackgut]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8963
Loc: Charleston
shruggy


Attachments
20171107_192044.jpg


_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2400974 - 11/09/17 10:49 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: sixpackgut]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8963
Loc: Charleston
shruggy


Attachments
20171109_104440.jpg


_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2400975 - 11/09/17 10:50 AM Re: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Head for Gen III HEMI [Re: sixpackgut]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8963
Loc: Charleston
dino


Attachments
20171109_070920.jpg


_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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