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TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM #2342507
07/24/17 04:21 PM
07/24/17 04:21 PM
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NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline OP
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Mopar Mitch  Offline OP
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Does anyone know the weight difference between, say, Firm Feel's solid steel sleeves vs, say, PST's solid aluminum sleeves? I've already purchased the FF 11/16" c-body setup (solid steel sleeves, along with the 11/16" larger tie-rod ends). But, I should've looked into this question earlier... re-assembly still lurking ahead for me... a few months away.. The "light-weight" aluminum (solid?) sleeves, say, from companies such as PST, maybe others, might be in my better interest. I'm always looking for weight reductions.

T/Anks ahead!


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2342584
07/24/17 06:11 PM
07/24/17 06:11 PM
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IMO, weigh reduction via aluminum adjusting sleeves is not where I'd go.

http://www.aluminiumdesign.net/design-su...m-and-fasteners

Doesn't take much for the aluminum sleeves and the iron ends to start corroding. If you are worried about weight step down to the A body tie rod assemblies.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2342661
07/24/17 08:29 PM
07/24/17 08:29 PM
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jcc Offline
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My first of alum TR sleeves was 20? years ago, they stripped out before getting them on the car, that's likely a fluke, as I have not heard that complaint since or elsewhere, but it made a big impression on me. I still have them if anybody needs a pic.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2342923
07/25/17 06:33 AM
07/25/17 06:33 AM
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Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
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For what it's worth, I had an aluminum tie rod on my ~5000lb Jeep that was turning ~260lbs worth of front tires at 4psi with the assistance of a hydraulic ram...it was hammered on without issue.

You must use anti-seize, lots of it, on the rod ends. That being said, I am using Hotchkis' aluminum tie rods without concern.


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2343519
07/26/17 07:31 AM
07/26/17 07:31 AM
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NORTHERN CA
HUSTLESTUFF Offline
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Pick some up from Coleman's, just figure out how long you need them. Mike

http://www.colemanracing.com/Tie-Rod-Aluminum-P4199.aspx


"Were in it to win it. Anything less will end up being..... A whole lot of fun doing!!" UNLAWFL
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Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2344709
07/28/17 08:47 AM
07/28/17 08:47 AM
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Brisvegas, Australia
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Alchemi Offline
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Unless the tierods are made from 7075 ally, steel is way stronger by weight - the a-body ones would be worth weighing vs the ally
This is definitely a weight vs strength question - its a regular thing to do the c-body upgrade, but is it actually necessary? yes the thicker tierods would deflect less, but has anyone measured the difference? I would like to think that if a tierod was going to deflect more than 1/2 an inch it would just fail
After googling bent and failed tierods, pretty much everything that comes up is newer solid bar stuff or on a 4x4
Has anyone who has done -only- a tierod upgrade noticed much of a difference? please chime in!

Last edited by Alchemi; 07/28/17 08:52 AM.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Alchemi] #2344790
07/28/17 12:35 PM
07/28/17 12:35 PM
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jcc Offline
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I have brought up this exact issue many times for over a decade, you get two responses, "it can't hurt" or crickets.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: jcc] #2344896
07/28/17 04:06 PM
07/28/17 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted By jcc
I have brought up this exact issue many times for over a decade, you get two responses, "it can't hurt" or crickets.


Now you can add three, don't.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Supercuda] #2344975
07/28/17 07:44 PM
07/28/17 07:44 PM
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"I have brought up this exact issue many times for over a decade, you get three responses, "it can't hurt", "don't" or crickets. stirthepot


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2344981
07/28/17 07:59 PM
07/28/17 07:59 PM
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up yours
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up


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Supercuda] #2345020
07/28/17 09:19 PM
07/28/17 09:19 PM
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Rick E and the Green Brick are where the 11/16" tie rods started, AFAIK. The mod was cheap and stronger than the 9/16" A body parts. That was long before you could buy solid aluminum or steel sleeves. The bigger tie rods should wear longer under the higher g-loads, so that could be a plus for the street car that gets occasional track/ Auto X. The smaller solid 9/16"sleeve (or welded OE) is probably as strong as the split larger part, I haven't seen any tests shruggy. I'm not sure if the weight difference is really all that noticeable in the street/weekend warrior. If someone has done a comparison I'd like to see it. Just to be clear, I opted for the solid 9/16" sleeves on my car, but it now has the Hotchkis kit on it and at this point I'm not going to get it going, then tear it down get it aligned, and switch it all back to do an A-B-A test.

Last edited by Skeptic; 07/28/17 09:23 PM.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2345054
07/28/17 10:56 PM
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http://www.speedwaymotors.com/QA1-52325-Heavy-Duty-Tie-Rod-Sleeve-Mopar-A-B-E-Body,258463.html


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Skeptic] #2345057
07/28/17 11:10 PM
07/28/17 11:10 PM
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"The bigger tie rods should wear longer under the higher g-loads"

That right there I think sums up the herd instinct on this topic. First I suspect the robustness between the two choices, shooting from the hip, I bet approaches 40%. But I think it it is a pretty big misconception TR's take any significant cornering loads (g-loads) in the first place. And oem size TR's last for quite a few miles on the street, pot holes, curbs, slow speed parking ( highest loads on TR's likely, without a, IMO, a high wear concern, so extending it, if we use the 40% factor, and not sure if that would be linear, we really don't have any need to for longer wear cycles. I could go on.

I'll add lastly, because invariably someone will, "it doesn't hurt" laugh2


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: jcc] #2345101
07/29/17 01:54 AM
07/29/17 01:54 AM
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Good troll JCC but you aren't "shooting from the hip" you are blowing smoke out your backside. fan The smaller part will wear out faster than an = larger part given the same load. It's up to the individual to decide what is acceptable, save a few pound VS shorter service life. My car is far from a daily driver, so I'll save a few pounds. Really, what does it hurt if someone puts bigger tie rod ends on their car- seriously. Most people don't need the power their engines are capable of, nor the ginormous brakes that are so popular. Don't get your panties in such a bunch about it. Nobody is going to force you to put big tie rods on your car. wave

Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2345126
07/29/17 07:18 AM
07/29/17 07:18 AM
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I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned going with the 11/16" and then partially gun-drill them to save a few grams again... work stirthepot

Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2345196
07/29/17 12:17 PM
07/29/17 12:17 PM
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GoodysGotaCuda Offline
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For what it's worth, the rod ends and shim pack at the knuckle allows for bump steer correction on the Hotchkis parts. They come recommended to complement their upper control arms, may be sales jargon, but they seemed sincere when I discussed it with them at SEMA.

Irrelevant to the alum vs steel argument, but you can't really do that with tie rod ends.


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2345209
07/29/17 12:44 PM
07/29/17 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Irrelevant to the alum vs steel argument, but you can't really do that with tie rod ends.


That's not entirely true, it is just more difficult than using shims to correct. The MP chassis book details it.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Skeptic] #2345284
07/29/17 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Skeptic
Good troll JCC but you aren't "shooting from the hip" you are blowing smoke out your backside. fan
Nice attempt at taking the high road. After over a decade on this topic on Moparts, they usually take this course, unilaterally. I can go back locate/link them if needed
Originally Posted By Skeptic
The smaller part will wear out faster than an = larger part given the same load.
Other then stating the obvious , what is your point?
Originally Posted By Skeptic
It's up to the individual to decide what is acceptable,
Other then stating the obvious, what is your point?
Originally Posted By Skeptic
save a few pound VS shorter service life.
And who here has worn out a TR in under say 50K? on one of our maintained not abused cars?
Originally Posted By Skeptic
My car is far from a daily driver, so I'll save a few pounds.
I doubt It
Originally Posted By Skeptic
Really, what does it hurt if someone puts bigger tie rod ends on their car- seriously.
I clearly addressed that, "what can it hurt?"
Originally Posted By Skeptic
Most people don't need the power their engines are capable of, nor the ginormous brakes that are so popular.
Yes, a prime example of the Herd
Originally Posted By Skeptic
Don't get your panties in such a bunch about it.
That would be counterproductive for "blowing smoke"
Originally Posted By Skeptic
Nobody is going to force you to put big tie rods on your car. wave
that's great, and likely means nobody can make a solid case for doing so.

Regarding hollow drilling, I assume most of loading on a TR in the shank is direct compression or tension loads, little bending, the math on CSA which is directly proportional to the items strength in this application, between a 11/16" and a 9/16", not using root thread diameter, is an approx 52% difference. Using the thread root diameters that will lower slightly, but i don't have that data at my fingertips, and am satisfied with my shooting from the hip 40% guess.

Attached is a typical Mustang TR with adjustable bump steer adjustability. Guess they have not heard about all the Mopar defection issues with the 9/16" TR.




steeda-bumpsteer-9404-07.jpg
Last edited by jcc; 07/29/17 02:42 PM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2348894
08/05/17 12:15 PM
08/05/17 12:15 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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I apologize I don't have better pics for you mitch. I'm running longer aluminum tie rod sleeves (from brads70) for 11/16" extended tierods (now discontinued by howes) welded on a spacer to the balljoint to combat bumpsteer. Running boregson box, fast ratio arms, with drop spindles. Been running this the last 2 years, autox a few times, no issues so far, no erratic steering either...



this photo show the arms with the old sleeves which I had to abandon as they were too short:



The best pic I can find right now on the car, you can see how much lower they sit than stock


Re: TIE-ROD SLEEVES -- STEEL VS ALUMINUM [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2348921
08/05/17 12:52 PM
08/05/17 12:52 PM
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up yours
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can't see the pics, photobucket wants you to pay up


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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