Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2339683
07/19/17 01:15 PM
07/19/17 01:15 PM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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I would say fire it up --only busted one pin in 35 years and who knows why so that is a no worry deal-- I love the Lucas break in oil available in 30 wt or 20w50 it is cheap and it is over 3000 PPM of the good stuff I have had zero failures since using it OR use Lucas additive in non detergent 30 weight VR-1 is Ok but only around 1200PPM IIRC stuff changes all the time so Light it up
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: ]
#2339685
07/19/17 01:17 PM
07/19/17 01:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,651 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,651
Wichita
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Comp flat tappet?
Good luck with that...
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2339696
07/19/17 01:41 PM
07/19/17 01:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892 Florida
Locomotion
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
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Oil with less viscosity circulates faster, which is what you want, whether it be for initial start-up or after sitting a while. Amsoil has their own break-in oil - Amsoil 30w Break-In Oil It's a pain, but you can always put weaker valve springs in for the break-in period.
Last edited by Locomotion; 07/19/17 01:42 PM.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2339707
07/19/17 01:57 PM
07/19/17 01:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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Drain the VR1 and use a good break in oil. Bill the customer for it. Will you be the dumb a$$ if the cam goes flat? Protect yourself. You just can't be a victim of guys trying to save $5.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 07/19/17 01:59 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2339728
07/19/17 02:26 PM
07/19/17 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
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20w50 is very commonly used in the field, but if you aren't confident in it or it seems wrong, if you are calling the shots then definitely change to whatever you deem appropriate.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2339740
07/19/17 02:54 PM
07/19/17 02:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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For break in, go with a lighter break in oil, as Myron also mentions. I now use Schaeffers break in oil ( I buy it in 5 gallons buckets), along with Gibbs Driven, but used a lot of Brad Penn in the past.I know there will be 5,000 people on here touting "you dont need no stinkin break in oils and exotic this, and expensive that".Do yourself a favor. Use a break in oil, and remove the inner springs, or use light springs if that option exists.
Last edited by CompWedgeEngines; 07/19/17 02:55 PM.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2339805
07/19/17 04:18 PM
07/19/17 04:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 35 Canada
Criterion
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 35
Canada
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It's a bit off topic but that cam dowel isn't what transfers drive torque through the timing set -- it's only there for locating purposes. The friction between the cam face and timing gear, when the cam bolt is torqued correctly, is what prevents slip and subsequent shearing of that pin. A grade 8 7/16 UNC bolt (what the single bolt cam uses IIRC) can safely produce 9,568 pounds of clamping load.
Last edited by Criterion; 07/19/17 04:19 PM.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#2339867
07/19/17 05:47 PM
07/19/17 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,540 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,540
Motor City
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For break in, go with a lighter break in oil, as Myron also mentions. I now use Schaeffers break in oil ( I buy it in 5 gallons buckets), along with Gibbs Driven, but used a lot of Brad Penn in the past.I know there will be 5,000 people on here touting "you dont need no stinkin break in oils and exotic this, and expensive that".Do yourself a favor. Use a break in oil, and remove the inner springs, or use light springs if that option exists. I agree & do all of the same with my engines.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2340145
07/20/17 02:30 AM
07/20/17 02:30 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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The biggest thing is the bearing clearances.. so if they are on the tighter side then run thinner oil... dont burn your brain out on this.. just use break in oil
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2340369
07/20/17 02:56 PM
07/20/17 02:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Everyone can do whatever they wish, and breaking in 1 engine, versus hundreds of engines will give you a totally different perspective, and especially engines of every variety and usage. You want to see stuff break? Try some boat engines, some truck pullers, and especially high RPM dirt track engines. Your eyes will open.Anyhow, here is a quick simple video, which has some valuable information. Most people like to just throw the term " high zinc" , or XXX PPM of zinc around, because thats what the oil companies with marketing budgets do.There is SOOOO much more to oil than that. I am in no way an oil expert, but I do pay attention, have years of running all sorts of engines, and have the fortunate insight into some private testing, that beats up oils every which way from Sunday.Lake and Driven , do a LOT of testing, and they engineer their products for every type of scenario. Its way more about using the right product for the application, than just a " favorite" marketed brand.That doesnt mean some of the common brands are bad, I'm simply saying there may be better, more usage specific, and better blended products for every application. Lake is involved with one of our private engine builder forums, and he often shares much of the information there. Its always good stuff.I learn something new every day.I also have spoke at length with Schaeffers, and have learned a bunch from them as well as my own experience.I also have some private test data as mentioned from others, and its really something to see when you start breaking down the components of oil.Oils ARE different.There is a fairly common oil brand out there now, that targets vintage cars etc, that people love, because its ' cheaper". It really doesnt test well, but again, they market it well. Is it " bad", well...I guess not, but are there " better" oils, absolutely. What always shocks me, is someone will pay $5,000-$25,000 on an engine, then have issue with the price of the oil. I dont get it.Its the lifeblood of the engine.Even if its a 10 qt pan, and you spend $3.00 more per quart, wow, $30.00 . We'll blow that on lunch in a few days....lol My example: If you had to have a blood transfusion, would you prefer it be from a 30 year old, healthy individual, who eats right, exercises, and has a long family history of longevity and healthiness, or would you choose your blood be from a 30 year old 65# crack [censored], who looks like 90 years old, and is strung out and been on crack and heroin for the last 15 years of their life? I mean hey, they both are blood right?Blood is blood isnt it?If you were charged by the pint for the blood, and could save $2.00 a pint, why not right? Its the better deal isnt it? You get the idea. My point isnt to " just spend more" to get the trick of the day " chic"oil. its spend more to get a good oil, or more importantly the RIGHT oil.The right oil is based on needs, clearances, temperatures and so forth. Dwayne and I had a conversation a while back , and it was because of hydraulic cams and lifters. The hydraulic lifter stuff is getting more technical,as far as requirements and adjustments.I have changed my oil for those builds, based on manufacturer feedback and requirements. I had my choice of product, it worked, and I didnt have issue, BUT, I found there to be what I felt was a better choice. Its also easier to work with a manufacture, when you use their suggested oil, and can share better data that way. OK, enough of my rambling, just my 2 cents. Watch the video if you will, there is always something to be gained. https://www.facebook.com/pg/DrivenRacingOil/videos/?ref=page_internal
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2340426
07/20/17 04:21 PM
07/20/17 04:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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Good information. I'm a "buy the best, American made you can afford" kind of guy. I know people have budgets and they don't always need a $3000 pair of shocks on their 10 second bracket car or titanium rods in a street motor.
But oil is kind of chump change in the grand scheme of things. For some, Mobil One from WalMart might be OK, for others, not so much. I know guys making tons of power with stuff they shouldn't be and it's living, and they're using oils I never heard of until I saw it in their shop. I'm always trying to keep an open mind, get past opinions and learn facts. Not always easy.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2340518
07/20/17 08:04 PM
07/20/17 08:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
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I know people have budgets and they don't always need a $3000 pair of shocks on their 10 second bracket car or titanium rods in a street motor. Best thing I've seen here all day.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2340544
07/20/17 09:09 PM
07/20/17 09:09 PM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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I know oil is a tricky subject--I know way less about oil than I guess I should but----other than the rash of lobe failures experienced when the oils changed--now Years ago--now Fixed-- for the most part---I have never had an engine failure I could connect to the oil being used--I have always used thicker oils like 20w50 and gave up on any performance gain from oils ( though I know from the dyno it is true ) I almost always have loose built engines I know there is still to this day Snake oil being sold and peddled--I also know that the "Bobs the Oil guy" website has folks that spend days on end just talking oils--it seems to be one of the most informative sites out there but ...I also know that if the engine is in good shape and you have any kind of oil in it-that you are almost assured that the actual oil will not be the issue if you have a failure--That would be in 90% of the engines guys on this site build and use--now I understand that a twin turbo 3 sec car and others are different so I get Extreme applications but ..as far as the old cam lobe argument--it has been proven that there are MANY factors other than oil that have piled on to make that subject a never ending tale--lifter bores, lifter crown, spring pressures, imported junk parts, USA made junk parts, etc It is NOT just the oil though I think that is the biggest factor I have had great luck with just about any of the high ZDDP stuff as far as break in and I have run almost everything made in drag and street engines and it all worked great! I tear down all kinds of race engines every week and some of them you can hardly hold on to the parts they are so slick --when I see that I always ask what oil you running--that and a good inspection of the parts gives me a good insight into the deal every single week-- Compwedge is right--real pros that see it every single day tend to gravitate toward the best info and products available and those are opinions based on real world--see it with your on eyes data--not the old my dad ran xxxx brand for 50 years kinda stuff I have run some stupid high pressures on flat solids using EDM lifters and very careful break in--have seen perfect looking cam lobes and lifters with 5-6 brands of oil after being SURE all else was right with the entire engine I have to say that Gibbs is amazing--the tech they offer is the best around--Lucas stuff works--Amalie also KNOWS what they are doing--I still run the now Conoco Phillips made GT-1 Kendall in my alky dragster even with small doses of nitro because after two years it has shown me it works--and is slick--and my tear downs have shown NO oil related issues-and because I have to change it a LOT with fuel and alky and..I buy in bulk at around $34 a case--I can't afford to toss several cases of Brad Penn down the drain every week though it does a killer job with alky It is all about the whole picture and common sense--not the most expensive or best advertised or IMO the best test results no matter who did the testing Whew! Big subject
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: ]
#2340594
07/20/17 10:29 PM
07/20/17 10:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Crabman, I'm all typed out, but I simply want to also add, the Brad Penn Nitro 70 has been EXCELLENT in alky motors.Cant argue at all on that. I do very few alky motors now, so its become less of an issue for me. Thi stopic will never stop being debated, and the challenges and opinions will never be in alignment, its just " one of those things".....lol
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2340902
07/21/17 12:11 PM
07/21/17 12:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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I was a Brad Penn break-in oil user for years but recently switched to Lucas. I still use Brad Penn 10-30 after break-in but will probably switch my alcohol builds over to Schaeffers Oil as I hear it performs better with alcohol.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2340905
07/21/17 12:17 PM
07/21/17 12:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Off topic but there was a post on Yellowbullet that Lucas Oil pulled all sponsorship from the Lucas Oil Drag Boat Series. Pretty sure the series also dropped several races from their schedule this year. I love watching that on TV and hope all goes well in the future. If Lucas ever pulled out of NHRA, IHRA drag racing that would be a big hit.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2340919
07/21/17 12:39 PM
07/21/17 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
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Alot of known decent oils do test poorly in terms of additive content... this is true, many oils folks swear by appear to be very additive-depleted compared to others. If they work, it's hard to debate. Oil is like religion. GT-1 from "back in the day" actually contained a small amount of copper as an additive, according to recent tests of NOS oil. I've got two cases of green gt-1 left... ..certain types of Pennzoil also had some copper deliberately in it as the test below shows. I don't think anyone does that anymore...but these tests of older oil show, most of them were not really all that. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/October-1-2012.php
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2341008
07/21/17 03:59 PM
07/21/17 03:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Mattax great point I didn't choose this stuff at all,owner come bringing me stuff putting it in my face,but early post I agreed with a guy just to go for it,but not now going Penn break in then stick with 30w it is not a loose engine and will never be drove hard for the most part it's a show Queen Daytona I figured you were leaning that way but thought it was worth bringing up. It's tough to change a customer's mind who has already bought into an idea, but I suspect the engine that is generally run cold would be happier after breakin with a 10w-30 multi-weight.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2341472
07/22/17 02:15 PM
07/22/17 02:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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Anything suitable is likely labeled "Off Road Use Only"
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2342349
07/24/17 11:39 AM
07/24/17 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
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....Zippy I used the green GT-1 in the past,even years ago ran outside the box used Rotella 15-40 but the new stuff (T5) isn't as good as the CJ4 they had to change it for for the new tier of diesel engines with converters and exhaust fluid.... Autozone recently blew out the last of the CJ4 Rotella T5 in 10w30, and put them on clearance, they were selling 2.5 gallon jugs for $15. Not sure if there is any left in their system as us clearance sale watchers gobbled up quite a bit of it. I'm not going to admit how much I bought, but it was definitely enough to keep me going for awhile Nice thing about it is it is dual rated, so no remorse using it in late model gas engines or older flat tappet stuff. It seems the closest thing to "all purpose" out there.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2342416
07/24/17 02:01 PM
07/24/17 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155
CT
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I broke in my Comp solid flat tappet with the Comp break in stuff in 10W30, and then I ran a bottle of the break in additive for the first 2 or 3 oil changes with VR1 and BP oil. So far so good.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Flat tappet break in oil
[Re: pullandrag]
#2342877
07/25/17 01:57 AM
07/25/17 01:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155
CT
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If its for flat tappet cam engines it's probably a good choice, Lucas does make a break in oil as well. I'd use some additive.
Also, you can order any of this stuff from Summit Racing, I always have my orders from them in 2 days. You can find this stuff on Amazon Prime too, 2 days guaranteed and usually the best price. I buy my VR1 and my BP on there. The BP is a huge savings over buying local, but you have to buy a case of 12.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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