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Flat tappet break in oil #2339679
07/19/17 01:07 PM
07/19/17 01:07 PM
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pullandrag Offline OP
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Fairly stock 375 hp 440 owner requsted high volume pump i said he didnt need it but whatever,he brings me val VR1 20w50 and its got a single bolt Comp Cam,i am about to start it and do the break in i want to drain that dowel pin buster and put in a 30w with zddp just want opinions i didng stand my ground on the oil pump or 20w50 but now i have ice cold feet and lighting it up it was a stiff prime on the drill im worried about the cam dowel any opinions are valued gi6ve it to me,thanks

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339683
07/19/17 01:15 PM
07/19/17 01:15 PM

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crabman173
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I would say fire it up --only busted one pin in 35 years and who knows why so that is a no worry deal--
I love the Lucas break in oil available in 30 wt or 20w50 it is cheap and it is over 3000 PPM of the good stuff I have had zero failures since using it OR use Lucas additive in non detergent 30 weight VR-1 is Ok but only around 1200PPM IIRC stuff changes all the time so
Light it up

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: ] #2339685
07/19/17 01:17 PM
07/19/17 01:17 PM
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Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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Comp flat tappet?

Good luck with that...


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339696
07/19/17 01:41 PM
07/19/17 01:41 PM
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Florida
Locomotion Offline
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Oil with less viscosity circulates faster, which is what you want, whether it be for initial start-up or after sitting a while.

Amsoil has their own break-in oil - Amsoil 30w Break-In Oil

It's a pain, but you can always put weaker valve springs in for the break-in period.

Last edited by Locomotion; 07/19/17 01:42 PM.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339707
07/19/17 01:57 PM
07/19/17 01:57 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Drain the VR1 and use a good break in oil. Bill the customer for it. Will you be the dumb a$$ if the cam goes flat? Protect yourself. You just can't be a victim of guys trying to save $5.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 07/19/17 01:59 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339728
07/19/17 02:26 PM
07/19/17 02:26 PM
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20w50 is very commonly used in the field, but if you aren't confident in it or it seems wrong, if you are calling the shots then definitely change to whatever you deem appropriate.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339739
07/19/17 02:52 PM
07/19/17 02:52 PM
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scottb Offline
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Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn is what you want to use and plenty of Joe Gibbs breakin grease on the cam and lifters

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339740
07/19/17 02:54 PM
07/19/17 02:54 PM
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Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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For break in, go with a lighter break in oil, as Myron also mentions. I now use Schaeffers break in oil ( I buy it in 5 gallons buckets), along with Gibbs Driven, but used a lot of Brad Penn in the past.I know there will be 5,000 people on here touting "you dont need no stinkin break in oils and exotic this, and expensive that".Do yourself a favor. Use a break in oil, and remove the inner springs, or use light springs if that option exists.

Last edited by CompWedgeEngines; 07/19/17 02:55 PM.

RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339767
07/19/17 03:28 PM
07/19/17 03:28 PM
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Driven "BR" for me...... Which is 15-40.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339789
07/19/17 03:57 PM
07/19/17 03:57 PM
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pullandrag Offline OP
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Thanks guys!Crabman,i respect your opinion and believe you but im going to drain and go for some Brad Penn some pulling friends use it and can get it for me thanks for all the opinions.I would just feel better about it,right or wrong or indifferent i have to sleep with the decision smile

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339794
07/19/17 04:03 PM
07/19/17 04:03 PM
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pullandrag Offline OP
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GY3 im prayin!....,thanks Zippy,McAllister exactly my thoughts

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2339805
07/19/17 04:18 PM
07/19/17 04:18 PM
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Canada
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It's a bit off topic but that cam dowel isn't what transfers drive torque through the timing set -- it's only there for locating purposes. The friction between the cam face and timing gear, when the cam bolt is torqued correctly, is what prevents slip and subsequent shearing of that pin. A grade 8 7/16 UNC bolt (what the single bolt cam uses IIRC) can safely produce 9,568 pounds of clamping load.

Last edited by Criterion; 07/19/17 04:19 PM.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #2339867
07/19/17 05:47 PM
07/19/17 05:47 PM
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Motor City
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Originally Posted By CompWedgeEngines
For break in, go with a lighter break in oil, as Myron also mentions. I now use Schaeffers break in oil ( I buy it in 5 gallons buckets), along with Gibbs Driven, but used a lot of Brad Penn in the past.I know there will be 5,000 people on here touting "you dont need no stinkin break in oils and exotic this, and expensive that".Do yourself a favor. Use a break in oil, and remove the inner springs, or use light springs if that option exists.


I agree & do all of the same with my engines.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2340125
07/20/17 01:31 AM
07/20/17 01:31 AM
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Balt. Md
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I use the Valvoline VR1 20w-50 oil for break-in with a bottle od Comp zinc additive. Never had a problem but left the inner springs off on the last break-in. But I have never wiped a lobe. But you gotta go with what you feel good with. I break-in and run my eng on the VR1 20w-50 with good results. Ron

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2340140
07/20/17 02:06 AM
07/20/17 02:06 AM
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pullandrag Offline OP
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These are just single springs with damper,911 springs.Last engine before this one was 5 years ago my 451, I used John Deere break in 30w for diesels very high zinc and then dumped it and put in the VR1 I'm sure this is a well discussed subject on here, but flat tappet users are going the way of the DeSotos but I've never had a wiped lobe but bought a few that were,I just getting my ducks in a row.Thanks Criterion, I know it's the two faces and the clamping force but seen a horror story on YT and freaked me out the older I get the more I worry about fresh engines,thank you guys for revisiting this subject,hate to be wishy-washy but the VR1 and bottle of ZDDP is already in it think 383man I'll just go with it,thanks guys

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2340142
07/20/17 02:09 AM
07/20/17 02:09 AM
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pullandrag Offline OP
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The owner lost the key that's all I'm really waiting for 😂Im afraid the turn switch with screwdriver end up burning up a Daytona not on my to do list

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2340145
07/20/17 02:30 AM
07/20/17 02:30 AM
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Romeo MI
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The biggest thing is the bearing clearances..
so if they are on the tighter side then run
thinner oil... dont burn your brain out on this..
just use break in oil
wave

Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2340369
07/20/17 02:56 PM
07/20/17 02:56 PM
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Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Everyone can do whatever they wish, and breaking in 1 engine, versus hundreds of engines will give you a totally different perspective, and especially engines of every variety and usage. You want to see stuff break? Try some boat engines, some truck pullers, and especially high RPM dirt track engines. Your eyes will open.Anyhow, here is a quick simple video, which has some valuable information. Most people like to just throw the term " high zinc" , or XXX PPM of zinc around, because thats what the oil companies with marketing budgets do.There is SOOOO much more to oil than that. I am in no way an oil expert, but I do pay attention, have years of running all sorts of engines, and have the fortunate insight into some private testing, that beats up oils every which way from Sunday.Lake and Driven , do a LOT of testing, and they engineer their products for every type of scenario. Its way more about using the right product for the application, than just a " favorite" marketed brand.That doesnt mean some of the common brands are bad, I'm simply saying there may be better, more usage specific, and better blended products for every application. Lake is involved with one of our private engine builder forums, and he often shares much of the information there. Its always good stuff.I learn something new every day.I also have spoke at length with Schaeffers, and have learned a bunch from them as well as my own experience.I also have some private test data as mentioned from others, and its really something to see when you start breaking down the components of oil.Oils ARE different.There is a fairly common oil brand out there now, that targets vintage cars etc, that people love, because its ' cheaper". It really doesnt test well, but again, they market it well. Is it " bad", well...I guess not, but are there " better" oils, absolutely.

What always shocks me, is someone will pay $5,000-$25,000 on an engine, then have issue with the price of the oil. I dont get it.Its the lifeblood of the engine.Even if its a 10 qt pan, and you spend $3.00 more per quart, wow, $30.00 . We'll blow that on lunch in a few days....lol

My example: If you had to have a blood transfusion, would you prefer it be from a 30 year old, healthy individual, who eats right, exercises, and has a long family history of longevity and healthiness, or would you choose your blood be from a 30 year old 65# crack [censored], who looks like 90 years old, and is strung out and been on crack and heroin for the last 15 years of their life? I mean hey, they both are blood right?Blood is blood isnt it?If you were charged by the pint for the blood, and could save $2.00 a pint, why not right? Its the better deal isnt it? You get the idea.

My point isnt to " just spend more" to get the trick of the day " chic"oil. its spend more to get a good oil, or more importantly the RIGHT oil.The right oil is based on needs, clearances, temperatures and so forth.

Dwayne and I had a conversation a while back , and it was because of hydraulic cams and lifters. The hydraulic lifter stuff is getting more technical,as far as requirements and adjustments.I have changed my oil for those builds, based on manufacturer feedback and requirements. I had my choice of product, it worked, and I didnt have issue, BUT, I found there to be what I felt was a better choice. Its also easier to work with a manufacture, when you use their suggested oil, and can share better data that way.

OK, enough of my rambling, just my 2 cents. Watch the video if you will, there is always something to be gained.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/DrivenRacingOil/videos/?ref=page_internal


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: pullandrag] #2340426
07/20/17 04:21 PM
07/20/17 04:21 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Good information. I'm a "buy the best, American made you can afford" kind of guy. I know people have budgets and they don't always need a $3000 pair of shocks on their 10 second bracket car or titanium rods in a street motor.

But oil is kind of chump change in the grand scheme of things. For some, Mobil One from WalMart might be OK, for others, not so much. I know guys making tons of power with stuff they shouldn't be and it's living, and they're using oils I never heard of until I saw it in their shop. I'm always trying to keep an open mind, get past opinions and learn facts. Not always easy.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flat tappet break in oil [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #2340444
07/20/17 04:56 PM
07/20/17 04:56 PM
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State of confusion
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Great info thankxxx.......... beer


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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