Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks (Updated)
#2324137
06/20/17 12:21 PM
06/20/17 12:21 PM
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360tripleblack77
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Hi Folks, Finally I could test my new set of Viking DA Shocks that I installed in my car. These shocks already improve my 60ft from 1.58 to 1.54 but I'm still having tire bouncing on the start. I'm using this setup on the Shocks: Front: Compression = 12, Rebound 2. Rear: Compression = 4, Rebound 12. My car is an A Body, 3300lbs Small Block with 464WHP, Footbrake, 4500 Stall Converter, Hoosiers 28x10.5, 4.56 Gear, Leaf Springs with Assassin Traction Bars. I'm sending two videos of the start... So if someone could see that and can support me to fix this issue will be great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpsFBEn8U4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDPMz66wkw Thanks, Diego Reis
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2324573
06/21/17 09:30 AM
06/21/17 09:30 AM
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360tripleblack77
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Shackles looks like fine but I'm plannig change them for Sliders ASAP... Suspension Loaded Suspension Unloaded Another thing that I'm looking is Traction Bars angle. I'm running with lower holes mounted front/rear and I understand that I'm having a very agressive rear tires hitting on the ground with this combination because front of the bar is higher them rear and when I leave the brake and car launch, loading suspension this angle change a lot hitting tires on the ground so hard as you can see on these picture that I posted above... So, make sense or don't? Thanks
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2324636
06/21/17 12:13 PM
06/21/17 12:13 PM
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Looking at the 1st video, the car plants the tire fine then it bounces back up in the car. To get rid of that hop, tighten the compression on the rear from a 4 to a 7. that should keep the tire planted.
Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2325580
06/23/17 03:14 AM
06/23/17 03:14 AM
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Me thinks the rear shackles are going past center(straight up and down) when it leaves and that will make the rear unload causing the hopping Is there any way you can video the back of the car by the rear springs, Go Pro camera maybe, to see if that is happening or not? I've seen that same problem on more than one A body drag car
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2325731
06/23/17 02:00 PM
06/23/17 02:00 PM
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360tripleblack77
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Guys, I really appreciate all advices that everyone gave me. I'll make some changes based on your advices and post all improvements here.
Thanks a lot!
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2325742
06/23/17 02:32 PM
06/23/17 02:32 PM
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As DT pointed out start stiff and go from there. Depends on track conditions what will make it happy. Looks like it is separating to much to me as well and I would follow his way. Tighten the extension start with compression in the middle...
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2325755
06/23/17 02:56 PM
06/23/17 02:56 PM
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Hi Folks, Finally I could test my new set of Viking DA Shocks that I installed in my car. These shocks already improve my 60ft from 1.58 to 1.54 but I'm still having tire bouncing on the start. I'm using this setup on the Shocks: Front: Compression = 12, Rebound 2. Rear: Compression = 4, Rebound 12. My car is an A Body, 3300lbs Small Block with 464WHP, Footbrake, 4500 Stall Converter, Hoosiers 28x10.5, 4.56 Gear, Leaf Springs with Assassin Traction Bars. I'm sending two videos of the start... So if someone could see that and can support me to fix this issue will be great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpsFBEn8U4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDPMz66wkw Thanks, Diego Reis Diego That is such a cool looking A Body. I have never seen a South American A Body before. They should have offered that style here. They would have sold a lot more A Bodies. I LIKE IT!
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2330570
07/03/17 10:46 AM
07/03/17 10:46 AM
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360tripleblack77
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Folks, I measured front end travel this weekend and had 4.2" of travel... So I reworked the suspension bumpers that was blocking my front end travel and lowered front of car 1/2" and now I've 5". I know that the golden rule is do not change more than one thing per time but I'm thinking in tight rear shocks extension from 12 to 18 to start.
Jully 22, 23 will have an event and I will can test my last adjustments...
Thanks Guys!
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2427718
01/02/18 02:02 PM
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360tripleblack77
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As I posted in another topic, my car has made his best ET so far. I could drop 60ft from 1.54 to 1.50 based on advices that I received from everyone on this topic. The problem with tire boucing is almost solved but the car still boucing tires on start. I'm thinking that rear separation is too much as Al Alguire told me before and you can see at picture attached. I have put extra clamps on front segment of leaf springs but I think that's not enough. Maybe time to change for Calvert Mono Leafs! I started with last configuration that I ran on the rear, 12 rebound and 4 compression and ran at 1.51. So I tighten the rebound for 14 and compression to 5 and 60ft droped to 1.50. I just could made only three passes and don't had time enough to work more on suspension. If I had time I'll tighten more rear shocks but I couldn't. I'm sending below a video from my GoPro camera that I installed under the car. Sorry for the quality but was darken when I made the video. Advices will be great again.. https://youtu.be/FqMf1UC3lVs
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2427726
01/02/18 02:17 PM
01/02/18 02:17 PM
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It looks to me like.. your settings are still way too loose.. and yes the monoleaf is the way to go it also helps get rid of weight. On compression you should be. Almost full tight... and on extension somewhere in the middle.. if the track is greasy you can loosen extension up for some extra hit... the front end looks way to stiff.. do you have aftermarket a arms.. the Freer you can get the front end the better the car will work
Last edited by WHITEDART; 01/02/18 02:18 PM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2427758
01/02/18 03:06 PM
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360tripleblack77
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I'm talking with Calvert tech support right now about monoleaf. This should be my next upgrade. I agree with you about front too stiff. I'm running on Rebound 2 and Compression 12 and I lowered front of the car to have more front end travel. currently Front end travel is 5" and still looks too stiff. About control arms I'm still using OEM arms and torsion bars too. Any recomendation of wich control arms to use?
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2427809
01/02/18 04:20 PM
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I'm talking with Calvert tech support right now about monoleaf. This should be my next upgrade. I agree with you about front too stiff. I'm running on Rebound 2 and Compression 12 and I lowered front of the car to have more front end travel. currently Front end travel is 5" and still looks too stiff. About control arms I'm still using OEM arms and torsion bars too. Any recomendation of wich control arms to use? I have the early qa1 upper control arms on my car they don't make that version anymore.. at least so I think.. I think Hotchkiss make some nice upper control arms kind of spendy you might take a look..
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2427817
01/02/18 04:30 PM
01/02/18 04:30 PM
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As Shiloh pointed out to many people overlook the front end and just how tight many of them are. Not talking about the shocks them selves per se' just the suspension in general. As for the rear shock keep tightening the extension til it spins Soften the rebound as much as it will tolerate as well for now. Generally speaking the extension controls the hit or plant of the tire and the rebound how well or long it plants the tire.. With the numbers you are talking are you referring to how far from stiff or from soft they are?? Just to clarify
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2427837
01/02/18 05:04 PM
01/02/18 05:04 PM
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360tripleblack77
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Viking shocks that I'm using have a total of 19 positions (18 clicks plus a zero position) of adjustment per knob. Position zero is the softest setting and is found by turning the knob counterclockwise until the positive stop is located. Position 18 is the stiffest setting.
Just to clarify the things for me also, When you tell me shock extension... extension = compression?
This is the tunning and adjustments that Viking recomends for inital setup for cars under 600HP (my case)...
Front: 12 - 18 compression; 0 - 4 rebound Rear: 0 - 4 compression; 4 - 10 rebound
I tried start with 4 on compression and 8 on rebound for the rear and was terrible. boucing like a wild horse. lol....
So I keep 4 on compression and change rebound to 12 on the rear... Works better but still boucing...
On the last race I changed the compression from 4 to 5 and rebound from 12 to 14 on the rear and works still better, dropping my 60ft from 1.54 to 1.50 but still boucing on the start.
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2427850
01/02/18 05:25 PM
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Yeah to many options on nomenclature for sure. I refer to stuff as extension and compression most the time. But depending on my mood might say bump and rebound, or combine them So I confuse myself frequently. So you are saying your numbers are from softest setting correct?
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2427886
01/02/18 06:35 PM
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Yeah to many options on nomenclature for sure. I refer to stuff as extension and compression most the time. But depending on my mood might say bump and rebound, or combine them So I confuse myself frequently. So you are saying your numbers are from softest setting correct? Yes on the Vikings smaller is softer. I'm surprised by how much dampening there is in these shocks. With the most compression I can't compress the shock at all.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2428178
01/03/18 07:53 AM
01/03/18 07:53 AM
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Thanks Shiloh! I'll take look at hotchkiss arms for sure. Do you think that for street use I can run with eyeballing or bushing on arms?
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2428179
01/03/18 08:07 AM
01/03/18 08:07 AM
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Watching the video made by Gopro camera and looking to diferential angle during the start I can see too much angle and I was seeing yesterday under my car the pinion angle. I measured in relation to the ground and found this numbers:
Driveshaft angle: + 1.2° Pinion Angle (measured in the pinion yoke): + 1.8° nose up.
Could be this part of my problem or don't make sense?
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2428226
01/03/18 12:09 PM
01/03/18 12:09 PM
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I would not have a problem using behind joint style a arms on the street.. that was kind of why I thought of Hotchkiss.. their stuff seems to be very durable.. anything you can do up front is a plus maybe do some aftermarket strut rods get the front end working absolutely as free as possible.. and then control the motion with the shock
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2428231
01/03/18 12:18 PM
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Concerning pinion angle if you can post some pictures of what you're looking at.. this is my opinion only.. on a street driven car you need enough downward pinion angle to get a good rotation on the needle bearings.. and ideally you want it to come two as close to straight as possible at wide open throttle.. if you could get the GoPro down there on a pass and see how much movement you have.. you could tune for that movement.. some people feel there's a magic number but I think every car will need something a little different.. because of weight and horsepower.. this is what I have found worked on my car
Last edited by WHITEDART; 01/03/18 12:20 PM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2428235
01/03/18 12:30 PM
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As to pinion angle UP is definitely not the way you want the yoke orientation....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2428236
01/03/18 12:30 PM
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This is a horrible pass but you can see how much movement as well as rotation is in the rear end housing myself I run about 7 degrees down. your car may only want 2.3.or4. https://youtu.be/gQEzZ2Xjzw0
Last edited by WHITEDART; 01/03/18 12:33 PM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2428344
01/03/18 03:52 PM
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maybe do some aftermarket strut rods get the front end working absolutely as free as possible. Are you talking about the strut rods with heims on one end? Thanks for your help. Don
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2428354
01/03/18 04:06 PM
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360tripleblack77
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Concerning pinion angle if you can post some pictures of what you're looking at.. this is my opinion only.. on a street driven car you need enough downward pinion angle to get a good rotation on the needle bearings.. and ideally you want it to come two as close to straight as possible at wide open throttle.. if you could get the GoPro down there on a pass and see how much movement you have.. you could tune for that movement.. some people feel there's a magic number but I think every car will need something a little different.. because of weight and horsepower.. this is what I have found worked on my car I was reading in Moparts Tech pages about pinion angle and 3° nose down is a good start point but I agree with you. Each car has a different setup. I started the installation of 4° pinion shims last night and I will finish tonight. After installed I will take some pictures of the angles and will post tomorrow here. It is possible see at video posted before that I had a large positive angle on WOT. Definitely this is not a good thing.
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks (Updated)
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2428480
01/03/18 09:11 PM
01/03/18 09:11 PM
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I have finished installation of pinion shims and take two pictures. One of pinion yoke and other of driveshaft. Pìnion angle has 3.7° nose down right now. Sorry about the pictures quality, I'm very bad photographer...
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks (Updated)
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2428715
01/04/18 03:29 AM
01/04/18 03:29 AM
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I'm assuming that you are checking the pinion angle at ride height. If so if I am reading this correctly it looks like you're pretty close..
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks (Updated)
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2428751
01/04/18 08:38 AM
01/04/18 08:38 AM
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Yes man! I did check at ride height. Looks better right now. Thanks for your advices Shiloh
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks (Updated)
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2428982
01/04/18 05:18 PM
01/04/18 05:18 PM
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Way better place to be than you had...Not that it will necessarily show anything on the track the parts will be way happier now
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks (Updated)
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2429186
01/04/18 09:54 PM
01/04/18 09:54 PM
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Yes I agree that looks better now. Next race will be probably in march. Lets see if changes will be effect. Thanks for everything Guerdon. I will keep everyone informed...
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: Advices to Setup Double Adjustment Shocks
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2429446
01/05/18 02:34 PM
01/05/18 02:34 PM
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I have a friend here in Brazil that is seeling same then your... Anyone already use and can give opinion about that? Thanks
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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