Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2321812
06/15/17 09:44 PM
06/15/17 09:44 PM
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Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I'm not a 4 speed guru by any means, but if I were having that problem, the first thing I'd do is check the air gap in the clutch.
If that checked out good, I'd dump the trans fluid and try some Pennzoil synchro-mesh gear oil.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2321818
06/15/17 09:55 PM
06/15/17 09:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Supercuda
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Don't think changing gear oil will do anything, the gears are not moving.
Double check the shifter alignment. I had a wore out shifter on my 300 that would get the shift handle stuck between the forks on the shift mechanism, it first showed up as difficult to put into first at a stop.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2321839
06/15/17 10:27 PM
06/15/17 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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rowin4
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Who did the rebuild/ There are 2 different synchros used in different year 18 spline transmissions. Possibly might have used the wrong ones? Or you have a broken synchro ring.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2321846
06/15/17 10:36 PM
06/15/17 10:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Check the clutch adjustment, if you can have someone use a feeler to stick in between the clutch disc and flywheel or pressue plate with the pedal depressed like you drive it see how much air gap you get and let us know Mopars are famous for dragging clutch disc Which makes them hard to shift and put into gear Good luck, you CAN fix it
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/15/17 10:37 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2321894
06/15/17 11:35 PM
06/15/17 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,272 Omaha Ne
TJP
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I have a 67 GTX 18 spline 4spd and after putting the car in neutral at a stop light it is hard to put into 1st gear, I have had the trans gone through and with new synchros/brgs from the kit from Brewers as well as put in the newer style roller bearing pilot brg and am using the Amsoil 75/90 synthetic gear oil that is GL4, the trans will down shift fine in all gears, its only when put into neutral at a light and than back into gear that it is real stubborn to the point that sometimes not sure it will even go into 1st or 2nd gear. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks. I would say based on your description that the most likely candidate is, Improperly adjusted clutch creating drag. An indicator of this is how close off the floor does the the car start to pull the motor down and move ?? Pilot bearing / input shaft issue, again creating drag. Mis-alignment of the bell housing, again creating drag. An internal Trans issue. keep us posted
Last edited by TJP; 06/15/17 11:36 PM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: rowin4]
#2321990
06/16/17 02:57 AM
06/16/17 02:57 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 172 katakan
lilred
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The syno rings and hubs were all changed to the 70 style a few years a go. I believe there is air gap as I had checked that with a helper when I was under the car, also when the car is running if you depress the clutch by hand it takes a while till you can feel the release brg starting to contact, I will give it a bit more air gap and try to see if that helps. Thanks.
Last edited by lilred; 06/16/17 03:02 AM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: fastmark]
#2322049
06/16/17 10:44 AM
06/16/17 10:44 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
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I changed to Amsoil sysnthetic gear oil in my 4 speed and it did not shift correctly. Honestly it's been so long ago and I left it in for a short time only, so I forgot exactly what my symptoms were. I think it was just hard shifting. I called Jamie Passom and he told me the old 833 needed regular gear oil the make the synchros work properly. He told the Amsoil was too slippery. Synchros do not work when at a stop and shifting into any gear.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: Supercuda]
#2322061
06/16/17 11:12 AM
06/16/17 11:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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I changed to Amsoil sysnthetic gear oil in my 4 speed and it did not shift correctly. Honestly it's been so long ago and I left it in for a short time only, so I forgot exactly what my symptoms were. I think it was just hard shifting. I called Jamie Passom and he told me the old 833 needed regular gear oil the make the synchros work properly. He told the Amsoil was too slippery. Synchros do not work when at a stop and shifting into any gear. WHAT ??? The job of the synchronizer is to slow down the gear to ease engagement. The brass ring grips the cone on the gear and slows it down before the teeth engage. I would look into the shifter adjustment first, then the dis-engagement of the clutch. Excessive bellhousing runout can also cause low speed engagement issues. You may need to change the fluid to a more syncro friendly fluid. I just use regular old dino gear oil and stay away from synthetics because they are just too slippery for the syncro rings grab the gears. If this happened all of the sudden I would look into some mechanical issues like shifter issues or something in the clutch linkage. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2322064
06/16/17 11:15 AM
06/16/17 11:15 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
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Synchros do not work when at a stop and shifting into any gear.
WHAT ??? The job of the synchronizer is to slow down the gear to ease engagement. Go back and reread what I wrote then tell us what gear needs slowing down when at a stop. Hint, NONE.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322113
06/16/17 12:44 PM
06/16/17 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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The op says he's in neutral, then can't get it back into gear.
If the trans is in neutral, and the clutch is engaged, everything is turning. When you push the clutch pedal in, there is usually still some amount of drag helping to keep everything spinning, and when you go to put it into gear, the synchro has the job of stopping the rotation and aligning the teeth so it will slide into gear.
Surely you've heard someone grinding a gear to get it engaged........ They don't grind when they're not turning.
I still say a fluid change would help, and the Pennzoil synchro-mesh was recommended to me by a guy who does a lot of transmissions.
It's not that expensive and it's easy to do.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322126
06/16/17 01:18 PM
06/16/17 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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I have also heard that slippery [ synthetic ] gear lube doesn't work well in older transmissions .
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322128
06/16/17 01:22 PM
06/16/17 01:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,363 Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340
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Do you recall as to exactly what oil you ended up using as I would definitely give it a try, was it just regular of the shelf 80/90 gear oil??? Thanks NAPA sells a GL-4 rated gear oil. Just make sure its not the GL-5 rated stuff. I also head that Pennzoil Syncromesh works as well.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322153
06/16/17 02:21 PM
06/16/17 02:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I think I bought the Pennzoil at AutoZone or Advance.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322163
06/16/17 02:33 PM
06/16/17 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Were the shift forks replaced?
Does it grind when it finally goes into gear?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: Supercuda]
#2322182
06/16/17 03:40 PM
06/16/17 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Synchros do not work when at a stop and shifting into any gear.
They most assuredly do. What happens when you shift a non-synchro trans from neutral to 1st gear at a stop without waiting for the input shaft to coast to a stop?
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322189
06/16/17 03:58 PM
06/16/17 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,381 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
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Do you recall as to exactly what oil you ended up using as I would definitely give it a try, was it just regular of the shelf 80/90 gear oil??? Thanks Yup just plain 90wt gear oil.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322211
06/16/17 04:25 PM
06/16/17 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon
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Everytime I see Pennzoil, I make the sign of the cross..
EVERY car ( back in the day) that was using Pennzoil, and was burning oil ( blue smoke), stopped when changed out to Castrol or Kendall, ( the brands I used) after I stopped using Pennzoil...
Many years ago and a different time, but I never use any Pennzoil products...
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322313
06/16/17 08:03 PM
06/16/17 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
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To me it sounds like shifter alignment, shift fork wear (they wear at the ends which pushes the slider assembly at an angle) or something else wrong in the slider assembly itself.
It will go into 3rd and 4th easily from neutral?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322380
06/16/17 11:03 PM
06/16/17 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I wouldn't over think it....... it's just an oil change. It will either help or not.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322412
06/17/17 12:05 AM
06/17/17 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
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Did I miss what happens when going directly into reverse from neutral. If grinding likely a clutch release issue or severe misalignment or tight pilot bearing/bushing drag would be a good guess.
If any clutch drag or pilot bearing drag at all causing main shaft to continue spinning with clutch pedal down, synchronizes will relieve this but with great effort. Going into reverse, of course no synchro help at all.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 06/17/17 12:07 AM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2322423
06/17/17 12:19 AM
06/17/17 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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TJP
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2322580
06/17/17 12:04 PM
06/17/17 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
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The op says he's in neutral, then can't get it back into gear.
If the trans is in neutral, and the clutch is engaged, everything is turning. When you push the clutch pedal in, there is usually still some amount of drag helping to keep everything spinning, and when you go to put it into gear, the synchro has the job of stopping the rotation and aligning the teeth so it will slide into gear.
Surely you've heard someone grinding a gear to get it engaged........ They don't grind when they're not turning.
I still say a fluid change would help, and the Pennzoil synchro-mesh was recommended to me by a guy who does a lot of transmissions.
It's not that expensive and it's easy to do. Thats true when in neutral and the clutch is out the input shaft is turning as is the countershaft and the syncro's do work when you shift into gear since the gears are turning. Try this and when you push in the clutch and go to put it in first wait about 10 seconds before you try to put it in first after you push the clutch all the way in. By then all the gears should have stopped turning and it should go right in first with no grinding. If it does not and seems no different then when you go into first as soon as you push the clutch in then something is causing the input shaft to still be spinning when the clutch is in. I have seen a pilot bearing that was to tight cause this years ago. If it goes into gear normally then you know the input shaft stopped turning as it should. Myself I found that if its a clutch adjustment not letting the clutch disengage all the way you will usually also have shifting problems with all gears. I would still make sure the clutch adjustment is right but it does sound like the syncro is not working right. Can the wrong fluid be the cause ?? Myself I have not run into that but from what others have seen the wrong fluid may affect how the syncro's work so it surely wont hurt to change the fluid and try it. Good luck with it , Ron
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322628
06/17/17 02:15 PM
06/17/17 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I still feel that making sure the air gap is wide enough would be the first step.
If that's found to be sufficient......then change the oil.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322665
06/17/17 04:09 PM
06/17/17 04:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 601 Mass
charge70
mopar
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mopar
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Not sure if this was said earlier,if it was sorry.When having trouble shifting into 1st gear,has the op tried shutting the engine off.That would tell you if its a clutch or transmission problem.
1970 Dodge Charger R/T S.E.
1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440 M-Code
1970 Dodge Charger 500 383/4-speed w/A.C.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2322763
06/17/17 09:06 PM
06/17/17 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
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Still to hear what happens with clutch in, going straight from neutral to reverse with engine running at idle and perhaps say 1,200 rpm.
Additional test. Place in reverse clutch on floor, engine running, transmission.gears are all stopped. Move to neutral, wait a couple of seconds leaving clutch pedal on the floor, move back to reverse. Grind or no grind? If grind, either clutch drag or pilot bearing drag. 40 seconds for all of above.
The answers to these might/would eliminate much irrelevant speculation.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 06/17/17 10:05 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2323035
06/18/17 01:19 PM
06/18/17 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Haven't worked on one of these with a std trans in many years.......but.......why does the starter have to come out to check the air gap?
I thought you'd just pull the inspection cover off the bottom.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#2323073
06/18/17 02:33 PM
06/18/17 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,272 Omaha Ne
TJP
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Still to hear what happens with clutch in, going straight from neutral to reverse with engine running at idle and perhaps say 1,200 rpm.
Additional test. Place in reverse clutch on floor, engine running, transmission.gears are all stopped. Move to neutral, wait a couple of seconds leaving clutch pedal on the floor, move back to reverse. Grind or no grind? If grind, either clutch drag or pilot bearing drag. 40 seconds for all of above.
The answers to these might/would eliminate much irrelevant speculation. Good ideas
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2323125
06/18/17 03:44 PM
06/18/17 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
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Could clutch disc when released, not move freely on transmission main spline. I had always checked for this many years ago when was still replacing my clutches, did so before bolting pressure plate in place. More than once had found a problem,,,,and a couple of times with a disc not runing true when spun on a smooth bench top surface.
I will post this thought on the other thread of the day suggesting another clutch problem.
Z bar bushings OK?
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 06/18/17 04:05 PM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#2323554
06/19/17 12:26 PM
06/19/17 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 172 katakan
lilred
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Yep, starter another issue, drive/bendix did not kicking in once in a while.
Last edited by lilred; 06/19/17 12:27 PM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: Stroker]
#2328682
06/29/17 04:10 PM
06/29/17 04:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246 Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
rumblefish72
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Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
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What causes the bent clutch fork bracket? I have a bent one on a Tremec 5 speed w/QuickTime bellhousing. I'm working my way through a bent clutch fork bracket in the new QuickTime Bellhousing I recently installed. I had just put everything back together for the first time and went out for a cruise. The clutch was operating properly and I was happy. But then I depressed the clutch and I could feel something give way. Fortunately, I wasn't too far from home and I limped back in 2nd gear. I'm running a Centerforce Dual Friction setup with a diaphragm pressure plate that has pretty light release pressure. I got the car up on jack stands and looked in the clutch fork hole in the bellhousing and could see that the pivot bracket had folded over (see picture). All I could think of was that I had installed the wrong offset pivot bracket and every time I hit the clutch, the pivot bracket wasn't lined up with the detent in the fork and the pressure was trying to bend the bracket out so it would fall back into the detent. So I took it all apart and double checked my spacing ... it was good. After careful examination of my throwout bearing, I came to the conclusion that when I inserted the clutch fork, it only snapped into one side of the retaining clip on the throwout bearing. The other side never clipped in. This caused the whole assy to be misaligned and after just a little use, the pivot bracket folded over. It was always a frustrating experience trying to get that clutch fork properly inserted and the access hole in the QuickTime is smaller than the one in the Lakewood making proper fork insertion even more difficult. I bent the bracket back to normal and tried to insert the clutch fork with everything on the bench. After several attempts, I was never able to get both clips on the throwout bearing to properly clip in. I had a spare new throwout bearing so I looked at that one side to side with the one that I took out of the car. The retaining clips didn't really line up very well with the fingers on the clutch fork with either throwout bearing which would make it hard to get both to clip in when installing the fork. I tweaked the clips a bit for better alignment and then tried installing the fork with everything out of the car. I was successful on 3 out of 4 attempts to insert the clutch fork. The pivot brackets that were supplied by QuickTime were pretty flimsy (see pic #2) in comparison to the one that was on the Lakewood that I was replacing. I'm going to fab up a new pivot bracket out of some heavy angle iron that I have and then when I get it clipped in, I'll use my video camera borescope thingie to make sure both clips on the throwout bearing are actually engaged. I think that all this aggravation is trying to get me to dump my z-bar and linkage for a hydraulic throwout bearing but I just don't have the cash right now to do that upgrade.
Last edited by rumblefish72; 06/29/17 04:13 PM.
1972 Pro-Street 'Cuda, 500" Eagle stoker B Block, Eddy RPM heads, Victor Manifold, 850 Mighty Demon, Hemi 4 Speed, Dana 60 w/4.88 gears - Built by Hansen Racing Middlesex - NJ
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: TJP]
#2328924
06/30/17 12:07 AM
06/30/17 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 298 mt. pleasant, PA
Diplomat440
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I have the same issue with my Diplomat. Sometimes hard to shift into first from neutral. I've blocked the pedal to the floor, it had plenty of air gap and the disc spun very freely when i crawled underneath. I really thought i was having a clutch dragging or even pilot bearing issue, but it doesnt seem to be the case.
I've got bell housing runout down to .003 or .004. Trans only has a few thousand miles on rebuild, Centerforce DF clutc, Sta-lube GL4 75w90, shifter is only a few years old.
The weird thing is that it usually only does it when the car is pointed down hill. Is it possible that the disc is just laying against the fly wheel and grabbing enough to spin the input shaft a little sometimes?
Have you tried 2nd or 3rd under those conditions ?? I really doubt the disc would be dragging when pointed downhill. Usually when I've pulled it into second when it didn't want to go into first, it was a little stubborn but not nearly as stiff as first. Third, im not sure, never took note of it giving me any trouble. If i let off the brakes and let it roll forward a tiny bit as i put it in gear it'll go right in. Its just weird, because it seems like it only really does it at a few certain stop lights around town that are down hill. Can't say it does it at the uphill ones.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: rumblefish72]
#2338630
07/17/17 09:26 PM
07/17/17 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,271 central IL reg Nov 18, 1999
Stroker
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,271
central IL reg Nov 18, 1999
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What causes the bent clutch fork bracket? I have a bent one on a Tremec 5 speed w/QuickTime bellhousing. I'm working my way through a bent clutch fork bracket in the new QuickTime Bellhousing I recently installed. I had just put everything back together for the first time and went out for a cruise. The clutch was operating properly and I was happy. But then I depressed the clutch and I could feel something give way. Fortunately, I wasn't too far from home and I limped back in 2nd gear. I'm running a Centerforce Dual Friction setup with a diaphragm pressure plate that has pretty light release pressure. I got the car up on jack stands and looked in the clutch fork hole in the bellhousing and could see that the pivot bracket had folded over (see picture). All I could think of was that I had installed the wrong offset pivot bracket and every time I hit the clutch, the pivot bracket wasn't lined up with the detent in the fork and the pressure was trying to bend the bracket out so it would fall back into the detent. So I took it all apart and double checked my spacing ... it was good. After careful examination of my throwout bearing, I came to the conclusion that when I inserted the clutch fork, it only snapped into one side of the retaining clip on the throwout bearing. The other side never clipped in. This caused the whole assy to be misaligned and after just a little use, the pivot bracket folded over. It was always a frustrating experience trying to get that clutch fork properly inserted and the access hole in the QuickTime is smaller than the one in the Lakewood making proper fork insertion even more difficult. I bent the bracket back to normal and tried to insert the clutch fork with everything on the bench. After several attempts, I was never able to get both clips on the throwout bearing to properly clip in. I had a spare new throwout bearing so I looked at that one side to side with the one that I took out of the car. The retaining clips didn't really line up very well with the fingers on the clutch fork with either throwout bearing which would make it hard to get both to clip in when installing the fork. I tweaked the clips a bit for better alignment and then tried installing the fork with everything out of the car. I was successful on 3 out of 4 attempts to insert the clutch fork. The pivot brackets that were supplied by QuickTime were pretty flimsy (see pic #2) in comparison to the one that was on the Lakewood that I was replacing. I'm going to fab up a new pivot bracket out of some heavy angle iron that I have and then when I get it clipped in, I'll use my video camera borescope thingie to make sure both clips on the throwout bearing are actually engaged. I think that all this aggravation is trying to get me to dump my z-bar and linkage for a hydraulic throwout bearing but I just don't have the cash right now to do that upgrade. Bloody 'ell, I just saw this. Which type fork pivot bracket was in your QuickTime? The butcher shop that put my trans in used the A body bracket. In a B body. In your pic, the B/E body bracket is on the right. Were there spacers under your bracket?
Last edited by Stroker; 07/17/17 09:33 PM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: Stroker]
#2343562
07/26/17 10:27 AM
07/26/17 10:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246 Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
rumblefish72
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
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What causes the bent clutch fork bracket? I have a bent one on a Tremec 5 speed w/QuickTime bellhousing. I'm working my way through a bent clutch fork bracket in the new QuickTime Bellhousing I recently installed. I had just put everything back together for the first time and went out for a cruise. The clutch was operating properly and I was happy. But then I depressed the clutch and I could feel something give way. Fortunately, I wasn't too far from home and I limped back in 2nd gear. I'm running a Centerforce Dual Friction setup with a diaphragm pressure plate that has pretty light release pressure. I got the car up on jack stands and looked in the clutch fork hole in the bellhousing and could see that the pivot bracket had folded over (see picture). All I could think of was that I had installed the wrong offset pivot bracket and every time I hit the clutch, the pivot bracket wasn't lined up with the detent in the fork and the pressure was trying to bend the bracket out so it would fall back into the detent. So I took it all apart and double checked my spacing ... it was good. After careful examination of my throwout bearing, I came to the conclusion that when I inserted the clutch fork, it only snapped into one side of the retaining clip on the throwout bearing. The other side never clipped in. This caused the whole assy to be misaligned and after just a little use, the pivot bracket folded over. It was always a frustrating experience trying to get that clutch fork properly inserted and the access hole in the QuickTime is smaller than the one in the Lakewood making proper fork insertion even more difficult. I bent the bracket back to normal and tried to insert the clutch fork with everything on the bench. After several attempts, I was never able to get both clips on the throwout bearing to properly clip in. I had a spare new throwout bearing so I looked at that one side to side with the one that I took out of the car. The retaining clips didn't really line up very well with the fingers on the clutch fork with either throwout bearing which would make it hard to get both to clip in when installing the fork. I tweaked the clips a bit for better alignment and then tried installing the fork with everything out of the car. I was successful on 3 out of 4 attempts to insert the clutch fork. The pivot brackets that were supplied by QuickTime were pretty flimsy (see pic #2) in comparison to the one that was on the Lakewood that I was replacing. I'm going to fab up a new pivot bracket out of some heavy angle iron that I have and then when I get it clipped in, I'll use my video camera borescope thingie to make sure both clips on the throwout bearing are actually engaged. I think that all this aggravation is trying to get me to dump my z-bar and linkage for a hydraulic throwout bearing but I just don't have the cash right now to do that upgrade. Bloody 'ell, I just saw this. Which type fork pivot bracket was in your QuickTime? The butcher shop that put my trans in used the A body bracket. In a B body. In your pic, the B/E body bracket is on the right. Were there spacers under your bracket? I'm continuing this discussion with "Stroker" in PMs so as not to hijack the thread. If anyone is interested, PM me and I'll add you to the conversation. -rumblefish72
1972 Pro-Street 'Cuda, 500" Eagle stoker B Block, Eddy RPM heads, Victor Manifold, 850 Mighty Demon, Hemi 4 Speed, Dana 60 w/4.88 gears - Built by Hansen Racing Middlesex - NJ
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2344392
07/27/17 04:28 PM
07/27/17 04:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,363 Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,363
Wheatfield, NY
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Sounds like the clutch disc doesn't have enough clearance. Take the inspection plate off. Have someone depress the clutch pedal, and you put a feeler gauge inbetween the disc and the pressure plate and/or flywheel. You should have at least .060" gap. If you do not, adjust until you do and then go retest the vehicle. Pretty simple 15 minute test.
Last edited by Cuda340; 07/27/17 04:29 PM.
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2344470
07/27/17 08:08 PM
07/27/17 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Here's what I would try at this point.....
I would want to try and determine if the disc/input shaft is turning, when it's hot and the clutch is depressed.
Go out, drive it around, get it hot to where the problem is occurring. When you get it back home like that, immediately jack it up and get it on some jack stands or lift(or if you have a friend with a lift, etc). With the inspection cover removed and the motor running, brakes set, you should be able to see if when you push the clutch in, does the disc stop turning or not?
If when trying to push the lever into gear the disc doesn't stop turning........ Either there is too much drag on the input shaft in the bushing....... Or the brass ring just doesn't have enough friction to stop the gears from turning.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2344488
07/27/17 09:06 PM
07/27/17 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I guess my thinking is...... The disc is either turning or it isn't.
If its still turning, I don't see how it can be anything other than something is creating more drag to keep it turning than the brass ring has to stop it from turning.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2344512
07/27/17 09:50 PM
07/27/17 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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I was not going to do so but will ax again. Perhaps I have overlooked response.
What happens when going from neutral to either reverse or 1st gear, engine running.
Are you certain that clutch disc is not warped?
Still interested if clutch shaft pilot bushing or bearing is to tight or otherwise damaged.
Suppose it is possible that pressure plate not releasing equally about its entire perimeter,,,because of defective pressure plate, incorrect , improperly installed or damaged throw out bearing.
There was posting regarding clutch release linkage, has this all been resolved.
Adjust clutch to where no free play at all,,,,can you get into gear then?
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Re: A833 18spline, hard to put into 1st after being in neutral
[Re: lilred]
#2344794
07/28/17 12:42 PM
07/28/17 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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How hard is it to get it into reverse after its all heated up?
I would think if the issue was excessive drag on the input shaft, then it would grind A LOT when going for reverse. If reverse seems pretty normal, and you could get another gear(like 3rd or 4th) normally, then I would think there is an interface problem with the brass ring and cone for 1st gear.
What happens when you try to go from reverse to first?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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