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Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231880
02/22/09 02:05 AM
02/22/09 02:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 551
Colo Springs, Co
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dragaddict Offline
super street
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Colo Springs, Co
Similar prob with 440 in a 69 Coronet. Moved the trans cooler closer to the grill. Stacked like you have them added to high heat area with too much flow restriction. I had the headers thermal coated inside and out to kill a bunch of under hood temps. Steel hood had a pair of Superbee scoops mounted when we got the car so I used a hole saw to let them move a little cool air thru the engine compartment. I believe these cars have such under hood high temps that it becomes too difficult to dump temperature from the radiator into a compartment that has a higher temp. Same radiator as before but much better manners.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231881
02/22/09 02:24 AM
02/22/09 02:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 70,126
Here
DirectSubjection Offline
Tacohead. The First and Only
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You did a great job plumbing that trans cooler, but I'm thinking with all the space those cars have up front move it a ways forward with some fabbed brackets then put your electric fan on the condenser pushing. Add a good mechanical fan onto the motor with the proper shroud and see.


Ride eternal, shiny and chrome
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231882
02/22/09 02:44 AM
02/22/09 02:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
I run a 22" afco rad on my 440 with a 4-blade fixed fan(no clutch, no shroud) with a stock replacement non-a/c water pump. I can sit in traffic all day and be fine. Underhood temps do get HOT but coolant temp stays in check.

I know there's nothing you can do about it easily, but that a/c condensor has got to be just terrible for rad air flow. The trans cooler not as big of a deal because it's small.

That's a nice looking electric fan/shroud there, but at idle it's likely not flowing enough air. Water pump speed is also low near idle so they both go hand in hand.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231883
02/22/09 04:26 AM
02/22/09 04:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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West Coast, USA
Did it run hot like this in traffic before you swapped the radiator? Did you ever put the correct radiator cap on it? Verify that the electric fan you have is spinning the correct way when on.

A lot of cheap fans spin well when there is no "load" on them, but fail misirably when they have to pull air through any type of restictive set-up. You do have what looks like a well-made, tightly sealed shroud. Either switch to a good factory type electric fan (there's a guy on this site that sells a nice big GM fan with shroud), or get yourself a high flow 16" Spahl fan or the dual 12 inch Spahl fan/shroud set-up with the good Spahl controller. (It will suck the chrome of a trailer hitch.); OR fit the factory stock/style thermal fan and shroud back on it. They move massive amounts of air too.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231884
02/22/09 07:47 AM
02/22/09 07:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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The Netherlands
Quote:

Quote:

So you don't have a gauge on it to know what the ACTUAL temp is?




No, interior is 100% stock/factory. Never got an actual temp gauge, I guess that is where I should start. I wanted to keep it as factory appearing as possible but I figure its time to get a new aftermarket gauge.





Since you don't care for originality under the hood why not just mount a watertemp guage there, which you can check once in a while when your dashgauge shows Hot again?

Or, just keep pouring money into fixing a possible cooling-problem which might not even exist perhaps.

Where's your ignition timing set at idle?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #231885
02/22/09 08:20 AM
02/22/09 08:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,336
the house on the left.
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cogen80 Offline
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the house on the left.
you need a real temp gauge in that car somewhere. that way you know exactly what is going on. even if you install one temporarily.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: stumpy] #231886
02/22/09 08:55 AM
02/22/09 08:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Blair County,PA
Quote:

You need at least a 180* stat. The stat doesn't do anything but bring the engine up to it's rated temp. Once it's open it doesn't effect the temp. I would go back to a factory fan, shroud and stock water pump set up that has worked for a lot of 440 set ups for a long time.





This makes more sense than anything,they worked when new.Nothing had more coolers and accessories than police packages and half of those idled more than they ran on the highway.We seem to have a passion in this country to keep trying to fix things that work.It's everywhere,just look around.Also,find a 6 blade a/c factory pump,you don't need an aftermarket.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: 62maxwgn] #231887
02/22/09 09:25 AM
02/22/09 09:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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ahy Offline
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IN
It looks like you have a super radiator. Also I agree with comments that hot at idle and cool when running usually indicates lack of air flow.

Most aftermarket electric fans are sold and intended for supplemental air flow only - they don't move enough air to be the primary cooling source. There are some well engineered OE setups on newer cars... mostly mild 4 cyl or V6. Higher power setups - Durango's, Pickups, Jeeps - still use an engine driven fan. If you found a really big aftermarket fan it would cost several hundred dollars and suck your stock style alternator and battery dry at idle. You would be into a couple hundred dollars more to upgrade the charging system.

The thermal clutch fan worked well on these cars originally and still does. Here's a setup that has worked well for me on a 496 B with AC.

Radiator: High capacity aluminum
Fan: MP 5 blade thermal clutch fan
Shroud
Water Pump: MP high volume, slightly overdriven (6.25" drive pulley, about 5" fan puley)
Thermostat: 180 high flow Mr Gasket


With extended idling in hot weather and AC running it gets up to 185 or 190. I had a higher capacity 7 blade fan as backup when I hooked up the AC but didn't need it.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231888
02/22/09 10:20 AM
02/22/09 10:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 684
Milwaukee
ToddP Offline
super street
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Posts: 684
Milwaukee
What is the ignition timing set at idle?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: RapidRobert] #231889
02/22/09 10:23 AM
02/22/09 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
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Posts: 423
DFW Texas
Quote:

You know it'd sure be easier if a good aftermarket W/P took care of this as the W/P would be a much easier install. Also I'd get a high flow 180 stat( drill a 1/16" hole in it for easy fillup). 160 is way too cool ex for a drag racer(& you are way above 160 degrees). The A/C condenser & trans cooler have to stay. I do not have the last word on fan advice but the old standby of a properly spaced(into the shroud) thermal clutch fan would be what I would do. there's just not enough air going thru the rad fins. EDIT yes that is the correct pump though I would check milodon & see if their pump is cheaper.




What is W/P?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: 69L78Nova] #231890
02/22/09 10:25 AM
02/22/09 10:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
AHall  Offline OP
mopar

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Posts: 423
DFW Texas
Quote:

Put a thermal clutch fan on it with a shroud. Half the time, electric fans are garbage on the street. The extremely minimal power loss required to run a clutch fan is far easier to live with than overheating the engine. Run a viscous fan with a shroud.




What is a thermal clutch fan?

What is the best # of blades to run for a setup like this?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: jbc426] #231891
02/22/09 10:29 AM
02/22/09 10:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
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DFW Texas
Quote:

Did it run hot like this in traffic before you swapped the radiator? Did you ever put the correct radiator cap on it? Verify that the electric fan you have is spinning the correct way when on.

A lot of cheap fans spin well when there is no "load" on them, but fail misirably when they have to pull air through any type of restictive set-up. You do have what looks like a well-made, tightly sealed shroud. Either switch to a good factory type electric fan (there's a guy on this site that sells a nice big GM fan with shroud), or get yourself a high flow 16" Spahl fan or the dual 12 inch Spahl fan/shroud set-up with the good Spahl controller. (It will suck the chrome of a trailer hitch.); OR fit the factory stock/style thermal fan and shroud back on it. They move massive amounts of air too.




Car did what it's doing now, ran fine driving, if i stop in traffic, creeped up.

I havent gotten the correct radiator cap yet as AFCO is closed this weekend.

Im wondering if there is some way I can put a PUSHER fan on the front and put the stock setup on the backside like it was.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231892
02/22/09 10:32 AM
02/22/09 10:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
AHall  Offline OP
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DFW Texas
how many CFM does this one move?

http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.aspx?p=itemdetail&item=30102130


Id like to find a PUSHER fan and then a PULLER and see how that works.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: cogen80] #231893
02/22/09 10:34 AM
02/22/09 10:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
AHall  Offline OP
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DFW Texas
Quote:

you need a real temp gauge in that car somewhere. that way you know exactly what is going on. even if you install one temporarily.




Im going to buy one and install one today.

Question-- do I need a 160 or 180 thermostat?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: ToddP] #231894
02/22/09 10:36 AM
02/22/09 10:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
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DFW Texas
Quote:

What is the ignition timing set at idle?




I dont know. How can I find that out?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231895
02/22/09 10:36 AM
02/22/09 10:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,709
NJ central
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Scamp408 Offline
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Posts: 2,709
NJ central
what kind of fan is that? Some fan companies rate their fans falsely .Ask me how I know .Also I know you just bought a new rad but it sounds small.I have a 27-3/4 x 19 in the scamp.I would look at the fan post up some specs.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: ahy] #231896
02/22/09 10:37 AM
02/22/09 10:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
AHall  Offline OP
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Posts: 423
DFW Texas
Quote:




Radiator: High capacity aluminum
Fan: MP 5 blade thermal clutch fan
Shroud
Water Pump: MP high volume, slightly overdriven (6.25" drive pulley, about 5" fan puley)
Thermostat: 180 high flow Mr Gasket





I think that is what im going to try and do. Go back as much to factory setup as possible.

With a fan like that one- can a puller be reversed somehow and installed on the front as a pusher?

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: AHall] #231897
02/22/09 10:40 AM
02/22/09 10:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,709
NJ central
S
Scamp408 Offline
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Posts: 2,709
NJ central
Some fans cant be reversed .I use the spal the best I have seen.The chevy hhr fan is nice but draws alot of amps.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: Scamp408] #231898
02/22/09 10:43 AM
02/22/09 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 423
DFW Texas
AHall Offline OP
mopar
AHall  Offline OP
mopar

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DFW Texas
Should I just take the A/C condesor off? I NEVER have even turned the A/C on. Yes, it's an original A/C car but I never use it, windows always down.

Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad [Re: Scamp408] #231899
02/22/09 10:49 AM
02/22/09 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 319
Northern Va
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Mopar73340 Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 319
Northern Va
When you go back to the stock setup, make sure the clutch is GOOD. You said it was doing the heating up at idle before you switched to the electric setup which indicates lack of air movemant at idle which almost always means the clutch was bad.

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