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Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2301296
05/08/17 06:55 PM
05/08/17 06:55 PM
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Wind Gap,Pa.
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Sammy Offline
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Picture of the messed up pan from Charlies. Like to see if my friend can use it for his new build.

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: gsmopar] #2301483
05/09/17 12:09 AM
05/09/17 12:09 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Originally Posted By gsmopar
Quote:
All told, I killed two rods, two pistons, two valve guides and associated valves, one oil pump, one oil pan, had to repair the block & crank....Oh and high gear in the trans....covered the headers in 20-50 and dinged one with the rod cap. Plus all the associated gaskets.....Not sure the total, but it wasn't cheap. We found some issues with the heads we addressed this time as well.


What was the root cause of the failure? I'll be firing up my Hemi soon (with a lot of the same parts). Just hoping to learn from your experience. Thanks!


Well, two things, you can NEVER have a big enough oil pan with a Hemi, and we did not restrict the flow of oil to the heads. I now have restrictors in the block. Hopefully, we do not limit it too much and burn up push rods.

Burned #7 rod bearing on a pass and it all let go....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2301488
05/09/17 12:18 AM
05/09/17 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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Can you show the inside of your oil pan,I'm looking at oil control in a deeper sump pan,just curious what the Milodon looks like up


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: hemi-itis] #2301965
05/09/17 08:25 PM
05/09/17 08:25 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Originally Posted By hemi-itis
Can you show the inside of your oil pan,I'm looking at oil control in a deeper sump pan,just curious what the Milodon looks like up


A week earlier, I could have taken a picture of the inside of that Milodon pan....I run the same pan on my wedge in the Duster and it has been great. If I remember right, its got a scraper on one edge and a tray built in with a couple spots for oil to drain back. I do not recall if it has a trap door in it.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316167
06/04/17 08:23 PM
06/04/17 08:23 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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The good news is, I can take a picture of the inside of the oil pan now for you. The bad news is, the rebuild didn't make it 10 miles down the road before major issues occurred.

So I got the engine running a few weeks ago, and it was in the car about a week. Went to take its maiden voyage down to the corner gas station and back, just to feel it out and put a few miles on it, and half way there, oil pressure started dropping.

I just happened to look across at the gauges and finally saw full engine temp and then looked over at the oil pressure, and it was already down to 45psi from 82psi....WTH!

Pull over and call a friend for a tow, no one answers...Fire it up and drive home, and it was down to 10psi if I am lucky by the time I pulled it back in.

So to make a long story short, I pull the engine a few days later and get it down to the shop. Pulled it apart, and struggled to find anything wrong.

Seems the crank we just had repaired, went and sprung once it reached full temp. That's the best explanation we can find. It was out .003" and I know it was straight when we put it in. Called Ohio crank about it, and they said that can happen on repairs like that.

So now, I am out my summer car, as I do not yet have a spare engine built. And I am wondering what my next move is....

Called Bryant for a crank, and its 14 weeks to get one...Still waiting to hear back about a Callie's for lead time. Might just sell it and build another 400/512 or a G3...Pretty depressed about it. Two summers in a row and Mopar day is this Saturday...no cruise nights or car shows this year either...


Last edited by Dragula; 06/04/17 08:24 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316188
06/04/17 08:52 PM
06/04/17 08:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Sorry to hear that man and can't you street the Duster..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Thumperdart] #2316343
06/05/17 12:19 AM
06/05/17 12:19 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Sorry to hear that man and can't you street the Duster..........


I have thought about that....But got this nice looking Cuda sitting here with insurance and a fresh trans all ready to go, minus an engine...


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316349
06/05/17 12:31 AM
06/05/17 12:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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I know you must really love your engine builder but don't you honestly think it's time for a divorce. Man I would love to have the money you spent on builds over the last five years. I wish you nothing but success on your next project


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: pittsburghracer] #2316357
06/05/17 12:42 AM
06/05/17 12:42 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
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I honestly don't think its his fault. It kicked a rod last year, and I sent it out to repair instead of replacing it. Finding all this out is like one of those doctors commercials, in the fine print, a repaired crank can retain a lot of stress in it after the repair.

At this point, I have an entire engine minus a crank....or at least a straight crank. And getting a new 4.75 crank is a lot tougher than I thought. Seems the standard is a 4.5...So maybe change crank and pistons and go 572, dunno....I am depressed.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316382
06/05/17 01:16 AM
06/05/17 01:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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The stock forged 413 crank in my Dart was bent like .002-.003 and we rotated around 180 degrees, and Jason Pettis smacked it a few times w/a big ass chisel and hammer and all good 14+ years later...........Hard to point fingers without all of the details or whatever but I hope this stuffs behind you guys............ thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316388
06/05/17 01:30 AM
06/05/17 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 447
lake charles, la
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sc4400 Offline
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lake charles, la
I just got a 4.75 crank from Ohio 2 weeks ago. Are they out of stock?

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316389
06/05/17 01:31 AM
06/05/17 01:31 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
How about seeing about straightening it and heating it up to 250 to 300 F several times afterwards to see if it has taken a permanent set or not scope All things steel are fixable with enough effort thumbs work Powder coating company heat their stuff up in large ovens to around those temperatures work
Maybe have it heated up several times first and then straighten it shruggy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/05/17 01:32 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Cab_Burge] #2316407
06/05/17 02:02 AM
06/05/17 02:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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Man, Hot Rods can be not worth it some days. Hope you can find a new crank for it. There has to be one somewhere.


Sheldon
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316424
06/05/17 02:44 AM
06/05/17 02:44 AM
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Las Vegas
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Call Crower on the crank...


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: sc4400] #2316451
06/05/17 07:41 AM
06/05/17 07:41 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
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Originally Posted By sc4400
I just got a 4.75 crank from Ohio 2 weeks ago. Are they out of stock?


Yes they are out...And those are on the cheapish side. Not sure if I wanted to go that route.

Whatever the material Bryant uses is twice as strong as the 4340 cranks. I think he said 43M300...not sure, but 14 week lead time.

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
How about seeing about straightening it and heating it up to 250 to 300 F several times afterwards to see if it has taken a permanent set or not scope All things steel are fixable with enough effort thumbs work Powder coating company heat their stuff up in large ovens to around those temperatures work
Maybe have it heated up several times first and then straighten it shruggy


This is what we might be up to.....It was a good crank, and its still is, but it has .003 in it now....

Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Call Crower on the crank...


Had not thought about them. Looked up Weinberg last night, and 4.5" was it...

Last edited by Dragula; 06/05/17 07:44 AM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316526
06/05/17 12:11 PM
06/05/17 12:11 PM
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Posts: 2,289
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
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How did the bearing look ? - if none of the main bearings were showing wear - I would suspect it is something else causing the dramatic pressure drop.

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: DoubleD] #2316530
06/05/17 12:19 PM
06/05/17 12:19 PM
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Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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Make a few calls to possibly Indy, Best Machine, Bob George Racing, and any other shops you can think of. Who knows what they have on stock and willing to part with


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316591
06/05/17 02:09 PM
06/05/17 02:09 PM
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Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
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Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: 23T Hemmee] #2316604
06/05/17 02:31 PM
06/05/17 02:31 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Make a few calls to possibly Indy, Best Machine, Bob George Racing, and any other shops you can think of. Who knows what they have on stock and willing to part with


I have been in touch with AJ at BGR...He got me the one quote for a Callie's...Just didn't let me know lead time.


Originally Posted By 23T Hemmee


I will keep that one in mind.


Got a call, it was straightened again and all polished up. Not sure if the guy was happy about doing it or not....We will probably heat cycle it in the oven at the shop and make a judgement call on it.

We also have a run in stand we can fire it up on and just see what happens before it goes in the car this time.

Last edited by Dragula; 06/05/17 02:36 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! [Re: Dragula] #2316607
06/05/17 02:37 PM
06/05/17 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Charlotte, North Carolina
I don't understand how the crank can be causing the pressure loss after being machined. When you say it's out .003", are you talking clearance or out of square? Can it not be ground .010" undersize on a straight cut?


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