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#2314405 - 05/31/17 10:20 PM Drop spindles; your experience?
MRGTX Offline
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Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I'm looking into 2" drop spindles on my Dart Sport to lower the center of gravity and possibly allow the 15x8 wheels clear the ball joints.

Has anyone run these? How did they affect handling? Did your car end up too low?

Did you end up with with any issues with steering linkage clearance?

Thanks for any thoughts!

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#2314447 - 06/01/17 12:22 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
autoxcuda Offline
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Loc: So Cal
What backspacing are you trying to run?

4 1/2" backspace will work with steel or two piece aluminum rims and stock upper control arms and spindles for large bolt pattern hubs.

When you run he drop spindle the tie rod end on the steering arm also moves straight down. This might get close to the inner tire sidewall.

IIRC, it's about 1" clearance with my 4 1/2" backspace 15x8 rims. I had one of those old performance timers with the magnetic pick up. I had it bolted to the tie rod nut with sender magnets on the rim edge.

I run stock spindles with my car slammed to the ground. Actually I had to raise it for the TTI headers to barely clear speed bumps. Just run 1/4" tall poly bump stops on the lower control arms.
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#2314479 - 06/01/17 07:54 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: autoxcuda]
MRGTX Offline
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Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By autoxcuda
What backspacing are you trying to run?

4 1/2" backspace will work with steel or two piece aluminum rims and stock upper control arms and spindles for large bolt pattern hubs.

When you run he drop spindle the tie rod end on the steering arm also moves straight down. This might get close to the inner tire sidewall.

IIRC, it's about 1" clearance with my 4 1/2" backspace 15x8 rims. I had one of those old performance timers with the magnetic pick up. I had it bolted to the tie rod nut with sender magnets on the rim edge.

I run stock spindles with my car slammed to the ground. Actually I had to raise it for the TTI headers to barely clear speed bumps. Just run 1/4" tall poly bump stops on the lower control arms.


Thanks, Autoxcuda! Once again, your expertise is much appreciated.

So I'm trying to run 15x8 +10mm (4.92" backspace) wheels. I've tried 6mm spacers which don't do the trick as the wheels still contacted the trailing. I just swapped in QA1 UCAs and that seems to have alleviated the contact with the trailing side of the UCA but now it hits the balljoint, even with the spacers.

I spent some time looking at the tierod and the steering linkage and I can't visualize where there might be a problem... The tires are 235/60/15...not sure how much deflection i'll need to consider.

I'm also interested in this LCA bumpstop suggestion...is this a part I can buy or is it something I'd have to fabricate?



Edited by MRGTX (06/01/17 07:55 AM)

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#2314482 - 06/01/17 07:58 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
Supercuda Online   content
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Sounds like someone got a deal on a set of Mustang wheels.

You need a thicker spacer.

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#2314517 - 06/01/17 09:49 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: Supercuda]
MRGTX Offline
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Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Sounds like someone got a deal on a set of Mustang wheels.

You need a thicker spacer.


Ha...thanks.
I tried a couple of different spacers, up to 6mm...which is still not enough to clear the balljoint on the QA1 tubular UCAs.

Not Mustang wheels...actually, I got a deal on some vaguely minilite style wheels that I personally really like. I would have bought 7" wide wheels for the front if they made them.




Attachments
May-2017 Dart with Rota RKR - small.jpg




Edited by MRGTX (06/01/17 09:52 AM)

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#2314535 - 06/01/17 10:36 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
Supercuda Online   content
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You got the numbers to figure it out and I'll tell you now 6mm is not even close.

15x8 with 4.5" backspace fits.
15x8 with 4.92" backspace does not fit.

Wonder what the difference is? .42"
Wonder hot thick a spacer you need? .42"
Wonder how many mm .42" is? 11


BTW, I like the looks of those rims.

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#2314541 - 06/01/17 11:01 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
jcc Offline
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Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 16973
Loc: Trumussia
Originally Posted By MRGTX
I'm looking into 2" drop spindles on my Dart Sport to lower the center of gravity ............. How did they affect handling?


The benefits of lowered centered of gravity are often outweighed by other aspects with drop spindles, like roll center changes, etc., without correcting changes to suspension pickup points, etc, that usually takes it out of the chosen realm of the hobbyist. Granted the stance/look is maybe more favorable, to go along with your lowered COG.
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#2314584 - 06/01/17 12:24 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: Supercuda]
MRGTX Offline
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Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By Supercuda
You got the numbers to figure it out and I'll tell you now 6mm is not even close.

15x8 with 4.5" backspace fits.
15x8 with 4.92" backspace does not fit.

Wonder what the difference is? .42"
Wonder hot thick a spacer you need? .42"
Wonder how many mm .42" is? 11


BTW, I like the looks of those rims.


Thanks...So 4.5mm offset is the absolute maximum that will work with a 15x8 on the front? Is that with or without the drop spindles?

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#2315040 - 06/02/17 09:27 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
Supercuda Online   content
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Talk backspace not offset.

I don't think in offset or in mm.

As for minimum? who knows every car is different.

As for the spindle, I believe the numbers Autoxcuda gave was for the stock spindle.

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#2315086 - 06/02/17 11:24 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
TC@HP2 Offline
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Registered: 01/23/03
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The absolute max backspace I've ever gotten away with was 4.75" This put the rim lip around .100-.125 away from the upper balljoint.

The drop spindles do create other geometric issues over stock, worse bumpsteer is one aspect that degrades. I've plotted them out and it isn't a radical difference, but it worse. But, there are almost always another way to address these shortcomings.

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#2315381 - 06/02/17 10:00 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: TC@HP2]
jcc Offline
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Registered: 12/21/03
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Reg bumpsteer and drop spindles, I kinda thought that if well designed, drop spindles would simply mimic original bumpsteer issues, BUT it might put bumpsteer into an area that is less favorable range of the original, so it doesn't really worsen it, just moves it? That's a question. grin

They still have other negatives. stirthepot
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#2315440 - 06/02/17 11:59 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
autoxcuda Offline
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Loc: So Cal
Like was said you'll need to go 11 mm minimum.

Have you measured the actual backspace?

That is with steel rims that have a thinner cross section between the tire bead and edge of rim where traditional weights clip on.


Is what part of the UCA is hittiing what part of the rim?

Is it hitting at ride hieght or just when jacked up?
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#2315444 - 06/03/17 12:08 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
autoxcuda Offline
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Loc: So Cal
What brand are those rims: Superlite, Pannasports, Optimus, other ?
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#2316124 - 06/04/17 05:08 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: autoxcuda]
MRGTX Offline
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Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By autoxcuda
Like was said you'll need to go 11 mm minimum.

Have you measured the actual backspace?

That is with steel rims that have a thinner cross section between the tire bead and edge of rim where traditional weights clip on.


Is what part of the UCA is hittiing what part of the rim?

Is it hitting at ride hieght or just when jacked up?



The inside lip is hitting the ball joint.

I haven't measured the actual backspace yet (I assumed that the +10mm/4.9" backspace was accurate. In any case, it seems hopeless without either drop spindles (which almost everyone says aren't a good idea) or having the front wheels narrowed. Unfortunately there seems to be only one place that does this and they have a 4 week lead time, it costs $150/wheel, they're 600+ miles away from me so I'd also have to ship them...and in the end, I'd be running a narrower wheel. smirk that's a big expense for a preferred style of wheel.

The wheels themselves are Rota RKR. They're RS Wantanabe knockoffs... not everyone will dig them on a 70s American coupe but I love them.

The help is appreciated just the same.


Edited by MRGTX (06/04/17 05:09 PM)

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#2316235 - 06/04/17 07:55 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
jcc Offline
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Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 16973
Loc: Trumussia
What size spacer would you need to run to make it work? Spacers as they get thicker are wisely frowned upon, but so are 2" drop spindles, spacers are cheaper/easier if your studs are long enough.
Even a 6mm spacer to me is acceptable in most cases if no other options are possible. twocents


Edited by jcc (06/04/17 07:57 PM)
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#2316457 - 06/05/17 06:51 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: jcc]
MRGTX Offline
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Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By jcc
What size spacer would you need to run to make it work? Spacers as they get thicker are wisely frowned upon, but so are 2" drop spindles, spacers are cheaper/easier if your studs are long enough.
Even a 6mm spacer to me is acceptable in most cases if no other options are possible. twocents


I tried 6mm spacers with no luck and I'm opposed to going beyond that. Plus even with longer studs, adding a larger spacer makes the wheels stick out too far for aesthetic preferences.

While I resisted the idea, I'm shopping for a 17x8 wheel now...if anyone relatively local to CT thinks they can make these work, I'll give you a great deal on them.

2x 15x8 +10 (4.9" backspace) with 235/60/15 BFG T/A
2x 15x8 +0 (4.5" backspace) with 255/60/15 BFG T/A

The tires literally have a few hundred feet of driving on them. The fronts have some scratches on the inside lip but it's 100% not visible while on the car and not structural.



Attachments
IMG_4985.JPG




Edited by MRGTX (06/05/17 06:57 AM)

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#2316497 - 06/05/17 09:00 AM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
autoxcuda Offline
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Posts: 25782
Loc: So Cal
Main reason I was cautioning the the dropped spindles was that you can get the car low without them without spending the money.

Next was make sure that something else does not interfere.

If you will not have other clearance issues, go for it. The roll center deal is not an issue.

I still think a .4" spacer is fine. There are good quality billet spacer for you bolt pattern. I think people frown one spacers cause they conjure up in their mind the Mr Gasket pot metal multi pattern ones with the super thin ribbbng.

Have you tried putting just washers as mock up spacer jus to see what exactly you need? Have you tried putting the rear rims on the front to check clearance?

I don't see how moving the hole rim out .4-.5" is going to change the look significantly.

http://pitstopusa.com/i-5066503-allstar-...olt-circle.html

There are also 10mm spacers on eBay.


Edited by autoxcuda (06/05/17 09:02 AM)
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#2316683 - 06/05/17 02:51 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: MRGTX]
John_Kunkel Online   content
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One problem with dropped spindles is that they place the lower control arm closer to the ground, you'll run into things you normally wouldn't.
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#2316706 - 06/05/17 03:28 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: John_Kunkel]
geo. Offline
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Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 119
Loc: n.c.
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel

One problem with dropped spindles is that they place the lower control arm closer to the ground, you'll run into things you normally wouldn't.


Yes!!
With 15" wheels, No drop spindles!
Maybe with 18" or larger wheels,and No headers it might be a good plan.
If I was local to you, I'd want to try those wheels on an E body, but I'd put the 4.5 b.s. ones on the front and swap the tires, I think it would look great!

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#2316718 - 06/05/17 03:58 PM Re: Drop spindles; your experience? [Re: geo.]
Supercuda Online   content
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Originally Posted By geo.
I'd put the 4.5 b.s. ones on the front and swap the tires, I think it would look great!


If he did that I bet they would fit his A body as well.

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