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#2312215 - 05/28/17 12:00 AM Tire Rubbing Issues
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!

Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 12268
Loc: Covina, Ca
So, I figured I'd ask about my tire rubbing issue and actually get off my butt to fix it sometime so I can get back into autocrossing without machining tires. My front tires are being cut on the outer corners of the tire. I already checked my trim and GT trim and I'm pretty sure they're not cutting into the tire. I think it's the bottom front corner of the quarter panel. There are two ways I feel like I can resolve the issue. Either pull the front corners of the quarter panel by moving the mounting points of the front support members closer to the bumper or just cut a small triangle out of the bottom corner (how big)?

Also, my rear tires are rubbing on the sidewalls on cornering with a passenger in the car. I had some Mopar Performance offset shackles but was told they won't work with my leafs as the shackles are placed in the stock height location. Is there a way to modify these shackles to work (i.e. drilling a hole)? Or does the Dr Diff offset shackles work with the Hotchkis leafs? I have 1/4" spacers in the back so I can just remove those to gain that extra clearance without buying new wheels and tires.

Any advice, tips, pointers, or how to's would be great.


Attachments
Rubbing 2.jpg

Gashed Tires.jpg

Tire Machining.jpg


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#2312222 - 05/28/17 12:16 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13673
Loc: up yours
Looks to me like you need new tires regardless.
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#2312224 - 05/28/17 12:24 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: Supercuda]
Pacnorthcuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 19098
Loc: Kirkland, Washington
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Looks to me like you need new tires regardless.

.
Fix the issue first.,

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#2312225 - 05/28/17 12:31 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: Pacnorthcuda]
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!

Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 12268
Loc: Covina, Ca
Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Looks to me like you need new tires regardless.

.
Fix the issue first.,


I agree with both. Hence why I haven't raced the car since Spring Fling.
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#2312239 - 05/28/17 01:06 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
blown340 Offline
master

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3286
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Can you post a picture of where you think it is rubbing up front?

For the rear I'd start by removing the small spacers and see if that fixes the problem. If so that will give you a bunch more info to help determine the permanent fix.
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#2312272 - 05/28/17 06:14 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3387
Loc: The Netherlands
I would say beef up the springs a notch and get bigger swaybars.

The cuts on the front wheels are inline with the fender, so imo they happen during severe spring compression.
If they would happen during hard cornering, I think you would see small bites taken out of the tire.

I would certainly start working on the fender lips to get rid of any sharp edges.
Any chance you can/want to 'pull out the fender a bit, without distorting it ofcourse?


What diameter torsionbars do you have installed?
How many leafs on the rearaxle?
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#2312343 - 05/28/17 10:11 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25942
Loc: So Cal
You can fold the front corner too.

3" x 1.5" would be plenty. 3 x 1" will work too. Cut the lip at top of fold line and drill a very hole at end of cut. That will provide a radius fillet of short to prevent ripping cracking in future. Then fold lip flat. Then whole triangle over.





Link to write up: http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...earanceSm27.JPG


Edited by autoxcuda (05/28/17 10:16 AM)
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#2312348 - 05/28/17 10:29 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25942
Loc: So Cal
You need to lip rear fender lips too.

Once you bend it a little, use a hammer with dolly or price of wood held strong right behind every hit. If metal dolly wrap in cloth to not scratch paint. My paint is 25+ years old and didn't crack hardly at all. Trick is patiance and small hits. Just work from center out repeat over and over.

Before , After, tool from harbor freight



Attachments
image.jpeg

Description: Before:

image.jpeg

Description: AFTER

image.jpeg

Description: Harbor Freight Tool. Grind edges round so doesn't dimple metal on edges when bending.




Edited by autoxcuda (05/28/17 10:36 AM)
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Fall Fling 23
October 27, 2018
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
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#2312405 - 05/28/17 12:34 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: autoxcuda]
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!

Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 12268
Loc: Covina, Ca
Originally Posted By blown340
Can you post a picture of where you think it is rubbing up front?

For the rear I'd start by removing the small spacers and see if that fixes the problem. If so that will give you a bunch more info to help determine the permanent fix.


I don't have any photos, yet. I have some pictures I took maybe a month or so ago. I had already done some massaging after those photos were taken. Kind of in a rush this morning, but I already did some fender massaging work. Originally I thought the GT trim was cutting into the tire, but I checked and even pulled the fender a little and didn't notice anything.

I really maximized the tire size in the back with the 255/40/18's. If I remove the spacers, the tire will most likely rub on the leaf springs, but I can check to make sure. I wanted the offset shackles installed from the beginning, but Hotchkis didn't install it for the above reason.

Originally Posted By BigBlockMopar
I would say beef up the springs a notch and get bigger swaybars.

The cuts on the front wheels are inline with the fender, so imo they happen during severe spring compression.
If they would happen during hard cornering, I think you would see small bites taken out of the tire.

I would certainly start working on the fender lips to get rid of any sharp edges.
Any chance you can/want to 'pull out the fender a bit, without distorting it ofcourse?


What diameter torsionbars do you have installed?
How many leafs on the rearaxle?



I agree that my springs (front and back) should be beefed up a little bit and this is occurring on severe spring compression. Driving on the freeway or slow maneuvering generally doesn't cut the tire. I'm running 1.06" T-bars up front and Hotchkis leafs in back. My Sway Bars are already pretty big (Hotchkis) and set to full stiff. I was going to have a truck/leaf spring shop install the offset shackles for me when I was going to get to them and I was going to ask them if they can add another leaf to my leaf springs while maintaining the same height. Or do you think a truck helper spring would suffice? I believe TomWheels used them with his Purple Valiant when he had some rubbing issues. It's just the offset shackles I have aren't made with a 1" drop.

Helper Spring Examples:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hel-550/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hel-991/overview/

Originally Posted By autoxcuda
You need to lip rear fender lips too.

Once you bend it a little, use a hammer with dolly or price of wood held strong right behind every hit. If metal dolly wrap in cloth to not scratch paint. My paint is 25+ years old and didn't crack hardly at all. Trick is patiance and small hits. Just work from center out repeat over and over.

Before , After, tool from harbor freight



The rears aren't rubbing on the fender lip. They're rubbing on the inner wheel well where the wheel well starts to taper towards the top. But good to know for the future.


Attachments
Rubbing 1.jpg

Rubbing 2.jpg

Rubbing 3.jpg


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#2312422 - 05/28/17 01:19 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25942
Loc: So Cal
If the rears are rubbing on the inner top there usually are rub marks. You could pound out there some and remove any undercoating.

But you probably can get more clearance if you add some spacers and move the wheel outward a little. But to do that you need room between outside of the tire to the lip. That's why I posted the rear lipping how to pics.

Does the car still have the hotchkis lowered front Spring hangers? If so, you can put the stock hangers back on and lift the body about an inch in the rear. That will change pinion angle.
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Fall Fling 23
October 27, 2018
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www.cpwclub.com
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#2312471 - 05/28/17 03:12 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3387
Loc: The Netherlands
I wouldn't bother with those truck helper springs. Looks unnecessary complicated. I would just add another leaf in the springpackages.

Just look for 2 similar sized leafs that fit nicely in between the other leafs. You can grind too long extra leaf shorter on the ends so the center pin stays in the correct location.

I added leafs in the springpacks on my own Dart. I'm upto 7 leafs per side now, but I'm also carrying two propane tanks in the trunk.

QA1 adjustable shocks control the rear and adjustable Hotchkis shocks are controlling the front of the car along with a Hellwig front swaybar.
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#2312625 - 05/28/17 08:24 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: BigBlockMopar]
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!

Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 12268
Loc: Covina, Ca
Originally Posted By BigBlockMopar
I wouldn't bother with those truck helper springs. Looks unnecessary complicated. I would just add another leaf in the springpackages.

Just look for 2 similar sized leafs that fit nicely in between the other leafs. You can grind too long extra leaf shorter on the ends so the center pin stays in the correct location.

I added leafs in the springpacks on my own Dart. I'm upto 7 leafs per side now, but I'm also carrying two propane tanks in the trunk.

QA1 adjustable shocks control the rear and adjustable Hotchkis shocks are controlling the front of the car along with a Hellwig front swaybar.



Essentially, that's what those helper springs are. They're adding a leaf to the pack without opening the pack. I already also have Hotchkis adjustables all the way around.
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#2312768 - 05/29/17 01:14 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
Frankenduster Offline
Moparts proctologist

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 15371
Loc: Granite Bay CA
The leading edges of the front fender openings are like little daggers. The wheel opening moldings only add to the problem. A wheel with less offset helps but probably isn't economical. Trimming the body is an option especially since the car has not been treated to the obligatory mega buck paint job yet. Steve's idea is a good one. If you want to keep the suspension, wheel and tire combination as they are, modifying the body for clearance is your only way to go.

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#2312961 - 05/29/17 11:39 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
rustbuckett68 Offline
mopar

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 593
Loc: Alberta
You could clearance the fronts (or rears) the old way. Put a wood baseball bat between tire and fender, and roll car back and forth, by hand. If more space is needed, put some hefty buddies on the hood and repeat

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#2312993 - 05/29/17 12:30 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: rustbuckett68]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25942
Loc: So Cal
Originally Posted By rustbuckett68
You could clearance the fronts (or rears) the old way. Put a wood baseball bat between tire and fender, and roll car back and forth, by hand. If more space is needed, put some hefty buddies on the hood and repeat



If you do that, roll the bat and hit the outside with a rubber mallet. Or some sort of soft headed mallet. I used a leather mallet shown in the pic.

That supports the hit. Same idea I stressed before, small hits. Slowly work the metal.


Attachments
IMG_6962.JPG


_________________________
Fall Fling 23
October 27, 2018
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
300+ show cars, 150+ swap, manf. midways
Malibu Cruise, Cruise-In
Free Spectator Admission!

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#2313361 - 05/29/17 11:30 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: MuuMuu101]
HUSTLESTUFF Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: NORTHERN CA
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#2313424 - 05/30/17 07:32 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: HUSTLESTUFF]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13673
Loc: up yours
Originally Posted By HUSTLESTUFF


That is just sad.
_________________________
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.

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#2313457 - 05/30/17 09:15 AM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: Supercuda]
HUSTLESTUFF Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: NORTHERN CA
I have that Eastwood tool and did the wheel lips on the rear of my Cuda and worked great. I was going to suggest that he borrow mine but for $60 for all four by someone who knows what they're doing is a bargain. If you heat the paint there is almost no chance of cracking it. For my AAR Cuda, I didn't push out the quarter just rolled the lip like the front fender originally is.


Edited by HUSTLESTUFF (05/30/17 09:15 AM)
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#2314601 - 06/01/17 12:54 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: HUSTLESTUFF]
Tom_440 Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 4995
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
I rolled the lips on my Cuda with the rolling tool. If you were closer to Vegas you could borrow it. Keep the paint warm with a heat gun while you roll and it won't crack.

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#2314647 - 06/01/17 01:48 PM Re: Tire Rubbing Issues [Re: autoxcuda]
dart4forte Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 14352
Loc: Mesa, Arizona
Originally Posted By autoxcuda
Originally Posted By rustbuckett68
You could clearance the fronts (or rears) the old way. Put a wood baseball bat between tire and fender, and roll car back and forth, by hand. If more space is needed, put some hefty buddies on the hood and repeat



If you do that, roll the bat and hit the outside with a rubber mallet. Or some sort of soft headed mallet. I used a leather mallet shown in the pic.

That supports the hit. Same idea I stressed before, small hits. Slowly work the metal.



Steve, are you the one with the hammer? eek


Edited by dart4forte (06/01/17 01:48 PM)

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