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Rock,hard place front main bearing #2308593
05/21/17 04:51 PM
05/21/17 04:51 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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I have cross bolt mains 1,2,3,4,5 and I need to check #1 but the oil pump is in the way of the side bolt and factory steering box limits oil pump removal.I think I can drop the pump 1/2" to loosen the side bolt and then the main stud to check if the bearing is still tight after that.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2308638
05/21/17 07:01 PM
05/21/17 07:01 PM
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I have removed the oil pump before with the engine in the car. I can't remember the exact proscess, but I think I had to jack up the drivers side of the motor, and then back out the bolts but leave them in the pump.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2308846
05/21/17 11:51 PM
05/21/17 11:51 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Sounds about right!I need to grind the steering bracket a little for the oil line fitting so I will put some cardboard next to the engine to keep grindings away so after the pump is out I can use a tq wrench when finished through the k member side even.I hope to just slide a new bearing in.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2308994
05/22/17 12:21 PM
05/22/17 12:21 PM
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If I remember right, when I removed the pump to install a high volume kit ,
I removed the pump cover first, then the body and rotor and installed in the reverse order, didn't have to jack the engine.

Joe

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: jlatessa] #2309082
05/22/17 02:18 PM
05/22/17 02:18 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Originally Posted By jlatessa
If I remember right, when I removed the pump to install a high volume kit ,
I removed the pump cover first, then the body and rotor and installed in the reverse order, didn't have to jack the engine.

Joe
BINGO! I just did that,Thank you.Now I have a clear shot at it all.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309085
05/22/17 02:22 PM
05/22/17 02:22 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Now to do the main cap and turn the engine by the crank bolt to see if that helped.The sound[squeaking tight]came from the front.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309086
05/22/17 02:25 PM
05/22/17 02:25 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The fun part was on the Koleno block the top rear bolt is in the water passage and water came gushing out.I was still happy.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309146
05/22/17 03:39 PM
05/22/17 03:39 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Well it is looking like I rolled an oil ring putting it together,The main,rod bearings look perfect[almost,lol] on #1main,rod.The squeak is coming from #1 it sounds like and I could pull that head but if you have an idea to test let me know.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309147
05/22/17 03:40 PM
05/22/17 03:40 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Come to think of it I had #1 rod cap off an it was still tight.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309151
05/22/17 03:46 PM
05/22/17 03:46 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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I know some of you will say just pull the darn engine but I take this as a learning exercise,opportunity


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309156
05/22/17 03:57 PM
05/22/17 03:57 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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I do see on the main bearing on the tab side the 1st 1/4" is shiny so maybe the sides are tight on all the mains.I will check the other shell half on that main.I may end up pulling more main caps huh?


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309161
05/22/17 04:08 PM
05/22/17 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Clanton
I know some of you will say just pull the darn engine but I take this as a learning exercise,opportunity


Yep a lesson in why you did not pull the engine! but I am guessing you already figured it would have been easier to do that. Doing an in line re-build should only be reserved for a big diesel engine or something that runs on NITRO

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309162
05/22/17 04:09 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The top shell is hard to get out so I am using an old bearing to move it around the crank to get it out,I hope,it is 1/4 around now.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: DoubleD] #2309163
05/22/17 04:10 PM
05/22/17 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted By DoubleD
Originally Posted By Clanton
I know some of you will say just pull the darn engine but I take this as a learning exercise,opportunity


Yep a lesson in why you did not pull the engine! but I am guessing you already figured it would have been easier to do that. Doing an in line re-build should only be reserved for a big diesel engine or something that runs on NITRO
My choice and I can live with it.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309175
05/22/17 04:32 PM
05/22/17 04:32 PM
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Well I need a line hone,the top half of the bearing is black on 2/3 of it on a 3/4 groove bearing and by the tab is ok.So now we know and thanks for listening.

Last edited by Clanton; 05/22/17 04:33 PM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309179
05/22/17 04:38 PM
05/22/17 04:38 PM
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NEVER GIVE UP! good job.now the work starts.

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309203
05/22/17 05:31 PM
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There is a high spot at the oil hole and a mark on the back of the bearing from the raised spot so I am sure the others are like that.I had the same issue with the cam bearings!!!!!

Last edited by Clanton; 05/22/17 05:32 PM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309206
05/22/17 05:37 PM
05/22/17 05:37 PM
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The Shadow Offline
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This is all I can think reading this thread

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: The Shadow] #2309209
05/22/17 05:44 PM
05/22/17 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By The Shadow
This is all I can think reading this thread
Well if you would take any value from my work it is that if you have a Koleno block you should check all the oil holes for high spots before you have trouble.I think that is important or should be to someone with that block.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309295
05/22/17 08:04 PM
05/22/17 08:04 PM
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Didn't this block run before, or is thus a new build on this block.

I am wondering how that raised oil hole never showed up before...at least in the bearing clearance checks?

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309326
05/22/17 08:54 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The crank had more clearance last time and I now have a new eagle crank untouched.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309327
05/22/17 08:57 PM
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The raised hole.001 or whatever it is is only effecting the top half and the lower half is fine so I know the crank is ok.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309328
05/22/17 08:59 PM
05/22/17 08:59 PM
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dizuster Offline
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What was the #1 main clearance at on this build?

I have a real hard time seeing how that oil hole was "raised" all along and didn't cause issues last time?

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309334
05/22/17 09:07 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The other crank had a .010 under bearing and about .0035 to .004 clearence so this crank mic'd to speck,I put std bearings in and ignored the tight turning being in a hurry.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309336
05/22/17 09:13 PM
05/22/17 09:13 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The thrust was tight so I figured it was that.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309348
05/22/17 09:25 PM
05/22/17 09:25 PM
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If you have too much bearing clearance, you will know. If you have too little clearance everyone will now. Nothing the matter with .004"mains. What does the the "thrust tight" mean?
Doug

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309355
05/22/17 09:40 PM
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"thrust tight" mean?
I hit the crank forward and back and it was still tight.lol I think it checked at like .004

Last edited by Clanton; 05/22/17 09:42 PM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309445
05/22/17 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted By Clanton
"thrust tight" mean?
I hit the crank forward and back and it was still tight.lol I think it checked at like .004
If it had .004" endplay what do mean "it was tight,lol"? Did it feel tight when rotated by hand?
Doug

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: dvw] #2309603
05/23/17 08:33 AM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Originally Posted By dvw
Originally Posted By Clanton
"thrust tight" mean?
I hit the crank forward and back and it was still tight.lol I think it checked at like .004
If it had .004" endplay what do mean "it was tight,lol"? Did it feel tight when rotated by hand?
Doug
Yes it was tight turning the crank with no rods or pistons in it so Yes I screwed up by going ahead.I should be able to get it line honed and get things moving smoothly.I hope the other mains did not mess up the crank so it can just be polished.Wait and see how things work out I can use these to help maybe.What do you think?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-142m1/overview/make/chrysler

Last edited by Clanton; 05/23/17 08:58 AM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309613
05/23/17 09:21 AM
05/23/17 09:21 AM
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bonefish Offline
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would hold off buying any parts untill the machine work is done,then discuss it with your machinist.

Last edited by bonefish; 05/23/17 09:22 AM.
Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309621
05/23/17 09:32 AM
05/23/17 09:32 AM
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I second the waiting on parts. We all live and learn. Good luck, hope she comes back together nicely.

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309680
05/23/17 11:18 AM
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Clanton Offline OP
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I know to wait on parts.I wanted to start discussing when to use those parts as long as I have your attention now.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309770
05/23/17 01:58 PM
05/23/17 01:58 PM
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You certainly do have our attention. I at least speak for myself and hopefully others, that we dont want any fallen Mopar brethren.

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309775
05/23/17 02:02 PM
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Thank you!!!!I will be back running by the end of June.I almost have the engine ready to pull.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309821
05/23/17 03:17 PM
05/23/17 03:17 PM
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So this raised spot that every main has by the oil hole, is this from machining/drilling the oil holes/galleries on the mains, almost like a burr? If so you might not need an align hone, hitting each with a radius'd small hone and working them out by hand might suffice. Id think bad main alignment would've even should up with the looser clearances? You take away .001 to .0015" and now it's to tight? I'd get rid of the burrs (if that's what they are), polish the snot out of the crank and get your .004" bearing clearance back.

Last edited by WO23Coronet; 05/23/17 03:20 PM.
Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2309910
05/23/17 05:27 PM
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Maybe some dye on the area and rub a bearing across it to check or partial bearing with emery cloth lightly.The oil hole is drilled from the crank to the cam so why it is raised idk.
ps:the bearing is black for 3/4" on both sides of the oil hole with some along the 3/4 groove on the trailing edge.[fyi]

Last edited by Clanton; 05/23/17 08:19 PM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310243
05/24/17 10:25 AM
05/24/17 10:25 AM
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when drilling a hole, no matter how sharp the tooling used, there is a burr raised. it may be very minute, but it's still there. that is why deburring both sides of a hole is good practice.
beer

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310259
05/24/17 11:04 AM
05/24/17 11:04 AM
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Being you had a crank in this engine before and all was OK - I am guessing your clearances were a little too tight with this crank - did you check the crank for taper on that journal? - Eagle cranks can be all over the place as far as clearance from journal to journal. I would find it hard to believe that the oiling hole was drilled after the original line hone was completed - but stranger things can occur

When you set your thrust bearing did you do it before you torqued it down or after - that might explain your tight thrust

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310269
05/24/17 11:27 AM
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Thank you for your help on this Everyone!!!Roush did the machine work on the as cast block and as in the past with the oil hole in the cam it is high so if it was honed it did not take it out.I set the thrust after I tq'd the mains.I only did a quick check on the crank and the shop that balanced it I guess never looked.[not that I asked]I will go over it better now[a little late I know]
ps: the killer is I asked the engine shop that honed the block to align hone it and they did not want to.[long story]

Last edited by Clanton; 05/24/17 11:31 AM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310355
05/24/17 02:00 PM
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I finally got the engine out and will finish the tare down today and post later on it.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310443
05/24/17 04:45 PM
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What the heck!?I have it down to the crank with pistons in and it only takes 28 ft lbs to turn it.I noticed it after removing the cam timing chain.I need to hold up here and ponder this.This does not change that the bearing is burned!!!

Last edited by Clanton; 05/24/17 04:47 PM.

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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310452
05/24/17 05:04 PM
05/24/17 05:04 PM
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northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline OP
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1 of the 1st things to do is put the #1 main on and see if it is tight again.I noticed something else,The TC nose has the paint off of it and I wonder if the trans is pushing on the crank making the thrust tight in turn making the engine hard to turn by hand.I will get to checking the thrust bearing and the back of it after checking the engine good.I am open for ideas on the order to check things!!!!

Last edited by Clanton; 05/24/17 05:46 PM.

GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310482
05/24/17 06:03 PM
05/24/17 06:03 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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I am going to go ahead and check the thrust bearing being that I cant get the #1 in to check it without lifting the crank.


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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310551
05/24/17 08:05 PM
05/24/17 08:05 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Some good news is all the rods,pistonbores look good.1,2,3 main have just a littler heat in them on the block side and not over the oil hole.I will have the crank measured to start and to be honest I think the .001 under bearings will do the trick but we will see.
Thanks for listening.ttyl
ps:The thrust was .006 with a dial on it.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310633
05/24/17 10:25 PM
05/24/17 10:25 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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My eagle crank mains measure 2.7475 where my old crank measures 2.745.I have a summit dial bore to measure the block but I wanted to ask about the block temp when measuring should it be 65/70*F?


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310635
05/24/17 10:32 PM
05/24/17 10:32 PM
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WO23Coronet Offline
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Room temp sounds good to me

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2310646
05/24/17 10:52 PM
05/24/17 10:52 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The main bearing should measure 2.750 correct?I have used the gauge on the piston bore but not the main.

Last edited by Clanton; 05/24/17 10:56 PM.

GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2314872
06/01/17 11:01 PM
06/01/17 11:01 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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I have my block at Victory engines in Cleveland.He measured the crank for me at 2.750" so not much room to the bearing.He will align hone ther block and we have some undersize king bearings on the way.I am making some progress.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2314932
06/02/17 12:45 AM
06/02/17 12:45 AM
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Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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Good luck.

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2315002
06/02/17 08:42 AM
06/02/17 08:42 AM
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Clanton Offline OP
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The bearing # is MB5116HP.001 The tech on the phone said the main over bore will take a couple of thou.[crush] and to just watch for fretting on the back of the bearing when going big.

Last edited by Clanton; 06/02/17 09:33 AM.

GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: Clanton] #2315989
06/04/17 03:35 PM
06/04/17 03:35 PM
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dthemi Offline
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Can't beat the cost of an eagle crank. The first thing to do with them is take them to a good grinder and have them turned .01/.01.

Re: Rock,hard place front main bearing [Re: dthemi] #2316018
06/04/17 04:30 PM
06/04/17 04:30 PM
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Clanton Offline OP
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Originally Posted By dthemi
Can't beat the cost of an eagle crank. The first thing to do with them is take them to a good grinder and have them turned .01/.01.
I still have a chance to mess it up.


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