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Pro stock block question #230774 02/20/09 08:38 PM 02/20/09 08:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA Scamp451 OP mopar
Scamp451 OP mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA	Just out of curiosity, do NHRA Pro stock motors use steel or aluminum blocks? Can they run either and what is teh maximum bore and bore spacing allowed? I thought they used aluminum, but was then told they use steel. Can they run any bore and stroke combo as long as they stay at or below 500"? No real reason other than I am just curious to know.

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Scamp451] #230775 02/20/09 08:54 PM 02/20/09 08:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,049 San Jose Ca. boatracer572 super stock
boatracer572 super stock Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,049 San Jose Ca.	They use cast blocks,but once opon a time the "Wayne County" team used KB blocks when Dodge made its comeback in 1990!the BS. of a pro stock in the NHRA is 4.9" 5040453-_WI_0326.jpg (553 downloads)

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: boatracer572] #230776 02/20/09 09:03 PM 02/20/09 09:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA Scamp451 OP mopar
Scamp451 OP mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA	Aha! I was right in one respect. I knew I read that Aldermans Wayne County B1 motor in the '87 Daytona was an aluminum block.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Scamp451] #230777 02/20/09 09:07 PM 02/20/09 09:07 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A

Re: Pro stock block question #230778 02/20/09 09:21 PM 02/20/09 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL Chris2581 master
Chris2581 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL	The blocks that NHRA ruled against were actual GM blocks.They were cast for them by Caterpillar.Mopar at the time was assigning Mopar P/N's to GM parts in order to make things "legal".I have pictures of Nickens "Mopar" engine in the back of a Dodge truck on a dolly and ones in the Avengers,and they are without any doubt GM engines. The original version of the B-1 engine(1987-88) may have been Keith Black,but were cast.The later blocks were RJ and C&S made blocks. Nautilus Racing- We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Chris2581] #230779 02/20/09 10:02 PM 02/20/09 10:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA Scamp451 OP mopar
Scamp451 OP mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA	I heard the same about the "CAT" blocks. A guy down around these parts had one of Geoffrions old motors, and you really had to do a double take because it had a Mopar logo or Pentastar or something like that on it, can't remember which. Wasn't there a blunder about the heads too around '98, '99? The ones they ran before they brought the Hemis in had the exhaust ports spaced like a Chevy or Hemi head, they didn't have the 3/5 and 4/5 paired together lfike a wedge head. I noticed that on Alderman's motor in the pits at Maple grove around that time frame.

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Scamp451] #230780 02/20/09 10:26 PM 02/20/09 10:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,619 Norwich CT USA Defbob master
Defbob master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,619 Norwich CT USA	is the pheonix block a chevy style block?

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Defbob] #230781 02/20/09 10:29 PM 02/20/09 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,136 Melbourne , Australia LA360 master
LA360 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,136 Melbourne , Australia	The Phoenix blocks had splayed caps like a Chevy block, who they were cast by I have no idea. I do recall the Eicke engine basically being a Chevy engine with Mopar Part numbers. At that kind of level of power, alot of the engines would end up being very similar anyway. AL.... Alan Jones

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: LA360] #230782 02/20/09 10:33 PM 02/20/09 10:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona C Chris'sBarracuda master
Chris'sBarracuda master C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona	I think Merlin cast those.. Koffel would know everything about those things.. Chris..

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Scamp451] #230783 02/20/09 10:58 PM 02/20/09 10:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 529 Rowlett, TX 7 74DusterP457 mopar addict
74DusterP457 mopar addict 7 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 529 Rowlett, TX	The blocks were by Cat. The heads were actually Pontiac castings with MOPAR numbers on them. This had been the case since about 1996 when Eicke took over the MOPAR banner from Wayne County. Allen raised cain with NHRA over the new HEMI when it first came out. At that time, only Nickens and Morgan could get HEMI parts from Chrysler. Allen wanted to be allowed to run the older configuration while they sorted out the new HEMI and NHRA said no to his request. The truth be told, AJ got quite a few parts from Morgan while they were ramping up their HEMI program.

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: 74DusterP457] #230784 02/20/09 11:32 PM 02/20/09 11:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,166 Park Forest, IL slantzilla Too Many Posts
slantzilla Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,166 Park Forest, IL	Quote: The blocks were by Cat. The heads were actually Pontiac castings with MOPAR numbers on them. This had been the case since about 1996 when Eicke took over the MOPAR banner from Wayne County. Allen raised cain with NHRA over the new HEMI when it first came out. At that time, only Nickens and Morgan could get HEMI parts from Chrysler. Allen wanted to be allowed to run the older configuration while they sorted out the new HEMI and NHRA said no to his request. The truth be told, AJ got quite a few parts from Morgan while they were ramping up their HEMI program. Mopar actually pulled the approval from the Cat/Eicke motors and left Allen and Roy swinging in the breeze. IIRC, Allen won a race and kinda made Nickens look bad. "Everybody funny, now you funny too."

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: slantzilla] #230785 02/21/09 12:03 AM 02/21/09 12:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,093 Long Beach, CA Mike Swann super stock
Mike Swann super stock Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,093 Long Beach, CA	Quote: Quote: The blocks were by Cat. The heads were actually Pontiac castings with MOPAR numbers on them. This had been the case since about 1996 when Eicke took over the MOPAR banner from Wayne County. Allen raised cain with NHRA over the new HEMI when it first came out. At that time, only Nickens and Morgan could get HEMI parts from Chrysler. Allen wanted to be allowed to run the older configuration while they sorted out the new HEMI and NHRA said no to his request. The truth be told, AJ got quite a few parts from Morgan while they were ramping up their HEMI program. Mopar actually pulled the approval from the Cat/Eicke motors and left Allen and Roy swinging in the breeze. IIRC, Allen won a race and kinda made Nickens look bad. Yeah and the Mopar/Eicke head at the time was the latest generation of the spread Pontiac head with Mopar stamped on it. 8.30's @3400 lbs

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Mike Swann] #230786 02/21/09 12:16 AM 02/21/09 12:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Actually pro stock blocks are made from CGI Compacted graphite iron BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: bigtimeauto] #230787 02/21/09 12:58 AM 02/21/09 12:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,837 NW Indiana F fbs63 top fuel
fbs63 top fuel F Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,837 NW Indiana	They called the Eicke motors Podge for a reason. They did'nt start using CGI in the Hemi until the 9 cam bearing blocks came out. The early motors had problems with the main webs cracking. There are 3-5 different versions of heads and blocks out there. The one I have is a second gen,skirted style, 4.678 bore with a 9.085 deck. I have seen pistons as large as 4.740. Don't leave a lot of material between the cylinders. Bob

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Scamp451] #230788 02/21/09 02:29 AM 02/21/09 02:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,994 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,994 Oregon	When the starter is on the passenger side and there isn't any distributor hole up front you start to think it might not be a Mopar block. 5041102-block.jpg (3056 downloads)

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: AndyF] #230789 02/21/09 02:40 AM 02/21/09 02:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,360 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,360 Las Vegas	Just for grins and giggles here is a current Pro Stock block, along with some other stuff. Thought they were cool..BTW note the cam journal size against the main bearing size Cams for comparisons sake. Current PS in the foreground, typical roller in middle and a 55mm in the rear. How about a crank shot New design 99 Hemi valve cover "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: Al_Alguire] #230790 02/21/09 08:36 AM 02/21/09 08:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 368 back home in georgia ,lake sid... 105630 enthusiast
105630 enthusiast Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 368 back home in georgia ,lake sid...	I don't know about that valve cover,is it so ugly,are they moroso's Al. 5041247-IMG_0681.JPG (759 downloads)

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: slantzilla] #230791 02/21/09 09:31 AM 02/21/09 09:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 529 Rowlett, TX 7 74DusterP457 mopar addict
74DusterP457 mopar addict 7 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 529 Rowlett, TX	That is exactly what happened. There was some politics being played behind the scenes at that time and AJ got the short end of the stick. I recall reading an interview with David Nickens during that time frame and he wasn't real happy with their performance and he was feeling quite a bit of pressure from MOPAR. His words were "It sucks to be me right now".

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: AndyF] #230792 02/21/09 09:47 AM 02/21/09 09:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,619 Norwich CT USA Defbob master
Defbob master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,619 Norwich CT USA	Quote: When the starter is on the passenger side and there isn't any distributor hole up front you start to think it might not be a Mopar block. those are the T/S heads right?

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: 74DusterP457] #230793 02/21/09 09:52 AM 02/21/09 09:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,837 NW Indiana F fbs63 top fuel
fbs63 top fuel F Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,837 NW Indiana	I bet those fabbed valve covers seal better than the POS mag ones! Al, is that the latest gen Hemi block? I had heard they did away with the skirted style but never seen one. Looks like they are up to 70mm cams now. Bob 5041305-CarPic2.jpg (492 downloads)

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: 74DusterP457] #230794 02/21/09 09:52 AM 02/21/09 09:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 550 Camp Point, IL G gofish mopar
gofish mopar G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 550 Camp Point, IL	I sure didn't feel sorry for Nickens. He was the one responsible for getting the old Eicke motor combination banned to they could stay ahead of Allen and Roy. That forced Johnsons to play catch up with old hemi parts, since they didn't have factory backing, they had to make do with what they could scrounge off of the factory teams. Isn't the Eicke head the basis for the NRC head design? Danny

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: gofish] #230795 02/21/09 09:37 PM 02/21/09 09:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA Scamp451 OP mopar
Scamp451 OP mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 699 Manassas, VA USA	I thought the general idea was (at least at one time) in most sanctioning bodies is that in order to run and X-stock class, a certain number had to be produced and the parts used had to be available to the general public, or have the rules since been "augmented"?

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: AndyF] #230796 02/22/09 12:09 AM 02/22/09 12:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,340 Pennsylvania proshiftcharger pro stock
proshiftcharger pro stock Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,340 Pennsylvania	Quote: When the starter is on the passenger side and there isn't any distributor hole up front you start to think it might not be a Mopar block. Heres a pic of a HEMI PS motor starter location (drivers side) 5043224-hemistarterspacers.bmp (547 downloads)

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: proshiftcharger] #230797 02/22/09 12:15 AM 02/22/09 12:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,340 Pennsylvania proshiftcharger pro stock
proshiftcharger pro stock Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,340 Pennsylvania	Heres the same HEMI PS motor note the distributor (no hole) small belt drive off of crank. 5043241-newyork-fieldcamset2070.jpg (486 downloads)

Re: Pro stock block question [Re: proshiftcharger] #230798 02/22/09 12:35 AM 02/22/09 12:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,932 Finalnd, Perkele J jyrki master
jyrki master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,932 Finalnd, Perkele	Actually, when NHRA paid attention to blocks used, it was the "factory teams" that suffered, A. Johnsn was using a different block made by a other supplier totally by aftermarket. The problem with the denied block was that it actually came from the same line as GM "factory" PS blocks. In a typical pro stock engine you just don't go to a speed shop and buy a block, it takes A LOT of effort and changes to build one for use. Currently the mopar block is told to be about the "readiest" block on market. Personally I have not seen anyt Eicke stuff. When they went with the 4.9" bore space, everything used "GM blocks", All the stuff I have seen is B1/TS parts for those. I believe there wasnt much performance difference at that point, but Eicke that co-operated with Steve Schmidt already had a working PS program with the GM, and there was kind of a temptation.... Hasn't been much talk about Eicke lately, was kind of beried with the mopar deal but was a main player before that. I can have my hands on a pretty late B1/TS engine (Steve Schmidt/Billy Stepp), good power, but pretty "thin" comapred to csame era GM's, narrower powerband. And you need a guy from Finland to write this. Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI

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