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Is super sprag needed ???? #230751
02/20/09 08:13 PM
02/20/09 08:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go Offline OP
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"

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St. Louis Mo.
I'm getting my new 418 going .
My ?? is have you used a SUPER SPRAG verses the standard bolt in sprag. With the extra rollers and springs have you saved the cases more and do you need the template for drilling this in?

I'm going to update to a 1350 ujoint DRIVE SHAFT setup and billet yoke and slip yoke to beef up the driveline more.

After that will that griner lba brake save the trans even more???Or one over the other ?
i have a old griner from mid 1990s
looking for 1.30 to 1.32 60ft low gear 727
thanks don

5040328-Beechbend.jpg (224 downloads)

2009 418" build dan smith built new 9.96 131.82 6.23 108 1.30 60 foot best to date 9/15/09 8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: 10 o to go] #230752
02/20/09 08:20 PM
02/20/09 08:20 PM
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Anoka County, MN
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Leigh Offline
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I use them in higher horsepower street cars with automatic shifted valve bodies and strip cars with non low band apply valve bodies. If yours isn't a low band apply, get a steel or aluminum drum and use it in conjunction. It's a durable combo.

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: Leigh] #230753
02/20/09 08:36 PM
02/20/09 08:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go Offline OP
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"

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St. Louis Mo.
So 3 pcs would be more durable ,steel alum drum
mines not a LBA brake yet and a supersprag.
don


2009 418" build dan smith built new 9.96 131.82 6.23 108 1.30 60 foot best to date 9/15/09 8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: 10 o to go] #230754
02/21/09 08:55 AM
02/21/09 08:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go Offline OP
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"

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St. Louis Mo.
so other threads posted looks like a steel drum is in the works also .
from what i'm reading the LBA brake holds the sprag better
don


2009 418" build dan smith built new 9.96 131.82 6.23 108 1.30 60 foot best to date 9/15/09 8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: 10 o to go] #230755
02/21/09 09:11 AM
02/21/09 09:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda Offline
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there is an 8 page writeup in this months Mopar Enthusiast covering exactly what your asking - shows the differences and gives you enough information to make a educated decision. John Cope from CRT was instrumental in the articles factual information.

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: DJVCuda] #230756
02/21/09 10:47 AM
02/21/09 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go Offline OP
"Happy Don"
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St. Louis Mo.
Quote:

there is an 8 page writeup in this months Mopar Enthusiast covering exactly what your asking - shows the differences and gives you enough information to make a educated decision. John Cope from CRT was instrumental in the articles factual information.


thanks dave i'll have to find that magazine .
also looking for racers that thought they saved their trans with the better pieces in thier trannys.
thanks don
don

5041379-mymoparlaunch.jpg (198 downloads)

2009 418" build dan smith built new 9.96 131.82 6.23 108 1.30 60 foot best to date 9/15/09 8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: 10 o to go] #230757
02/21/09 12:11 PM
02/21/09 12:11 PM
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NC
440Jim Offline
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The Super Sprag or the equivalent Ultimate Sprag seems to have more holding power to me. And the design looks like it is less prone to being "rolled over", losing the springs and rollers (failure).

The low band apply valve body will help protect the sprag. In 1st gear, the sprag holds the rear drum from spinning. With the low band applied, it also holds the rear drum.

Both the low band apply valve body and the improved sprag are good ideas, but I would put the LBA valve body 1st on the list.

An aluminum or aftermarket steel front drum is a safety item. If the sprag does not hold, and the low band is not applied, the front drum will spin about 2.2 times the engine rpm. And that can easily make the stock front drum explode.

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: 440Jim] #230758
02/21/09 06:37 PM
02/21/09 06:37 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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To me, it comes down to three ways of thinking:

1) Throw parts at it to prevent sprag failure.

2) Let the sprag fail and replace the part that actually explodes (the front drum) with a less explosion prone part.

3) Do both.

Of course, budget controls the ultimate decision.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: 10 o to go] #230759
02/21/09 09:38 PM
02/21/09 09:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 377
NW Indiana USA
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The super sprag is the first upgrade you should do to the 727. That is the part that fails and the super sprag is a better design.

The band on valve body is next because that will hold the LR drum if the sprag fails so you don't get spin up.

Note/The band on valve body DOES NOT prevent the sprag failure from happening.

After that if you want to you can use an upgraded drum. I have been using the full metal jacket drum from TCS because it is lighter than the steel drum.

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: John_Kunkel] #230760
02/21/09 09:48 PM
02/21/09 09:48 PM
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Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
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Quote:


To me, it comes down to three ways of thinking:

1) Throw parts at it to prevent sprag failure.

2) Let the sprag fail and replace the part that actually explodes (the front drum) with a less explosion prone part.

3) Do both.

Of course, budget controls the ultimate decision.




GOOD points and very rational thinking ....

Since my car I am working on now(I will be sitting with my legs on either side of the trans) ... my vote is to go with ONLY the aluminum drum.

I have done MORE than my share of 727's ....and I have only seen 2? sprag failures ...and those failures did not hurt the trans itself(other than the sprag needing to be replaced).

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: dOc !] #230761
02/21/09 09:53 PM
02/21/09 09:53 PM
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Atco NJ
DJVCuda Offline
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This is member PLUM BAD's pix.... his foot is where your nuts are going to be, do they make casts for nuts?


]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w43/PLUM1320/Transmission/img002.jpg [/image]

Last edited by DJVCuda; 02/21/09 09:54 PM.
Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: DJVCuda] #230762
02/21/09 10:14 PM
02/21/09 10:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
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Quote:

This is member PLUM BAD's pix.... his foot is where your nuts are going to be, do they make casts for nuts?


]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w43/PLUM1320/Transmission/img002.jpg [/image]




Huh ? .. ?? .... with an aluminum drum ... there is NO WAY to make the trans explode ...even if you wanted it to !

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: dOc !] #230763
02/21/09 10:53 PM
02/21/09 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 286
So. IL. USA
PLUM BAD Offline
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Stock drum, nonlow band apply trans break, bolt in sprag, was 8th pass on new trans that I had pro built. 4000 rpm launch, was having trouble with the launch. It would hook, spin, and hook again, which was shocking the sprag causing it to roll. Next is what you saw in the picture.

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: dOc !] #230764
02/21/09 10:55 PM
02/21/09 10:55 PM
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Posts: 5,987
Anoka County, MN
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Leigh Offline
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Leigh  Offline
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This will be my last post on transmissions. Listen to the replies by the experts here. You're on your own now.

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: Leigh] #230765
02/21/09 11:52 PM
02/21/09 11:52 PM
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Posts: 15,478
the boonies
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Quote:

I use them in higher horsepower street cars with automatic shifted valve bodies and strip cars with non low band apply valve bodies. If yours isn't a low band apply, get a steel or aluminum drum and use it in conjunction. It's a durable combo.




if i was doing mine, i'd run both the super sprag and the steel drum. it can only help, right?

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: DJVCuda] #230766
02/21/09 11:53 PM
02/21/09 11:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,478
the boonies
aarcuda Offline
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Quote:

there is an 8 page writeup in this months Mopar Enthusiast covering exactly what your asking - shows the differences and gives you enough information to make a educated decision. John Cope from CRT was instrumental in the articles factual information.


i read that today. its a great article. a keeper for sure!

Re: Is super sprag needed ???? [Re: aarcuda] #230767
02/22/09 12:33 AM
02/22/09 12:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go Offline OP
"Happy Don"
10 o to go  Offline OP
"Happy Don"

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
guys thanks for your opinions and thoughts on what to do to a trans to minimize the danger and make a trans live longer .
ussaully when i brake sprag it has split the case

TROY glad you made us at least aware of the subject more .

Is the LBA brake install any different than not a LBA and also steel drum .
thanks don

5043285-Beechbend.jpg (213 downloads)

2009 418" build dan smith built new 9.96 131.82 6.23 108 1.30 60 foot best to date 9/15/09 8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver






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