While I appreciate the info turbo/blower stuff is not as relevant to me. Not trying to take anything away from anyone. Hell I went 9 teens with a 474" BB with iron heads and blower at 3600lbs in the 90's. Power adders tend to "muddy" the waters for me. Hell throw a turbo on 4 cylinder and they can run really well. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the build but does not really tell me what kind of potential these things have in NA form

That's how I look at it too. 8.90's with a power adder is slow in my eyes. Come to the Pittsburgh area and see some 8 second no-adders.

I pretty much feel similar. We have been really fast on junk with a bottle or blower. I had a buddy who went 8.0's on a 28x10.50 with a 4.6 Mod motor with stock heads, cams and a 98mm Turbo.

If my junk runs only runs high 8's on nitrous when and if I ever finish this project get ready for a fire sale. Lol

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2053593/2/actual-build-costs.html

This was everything including shipping costs for these parts. Aside from a few trips to the hardware store of course. Including the entire ignition system, headers etc. I could replicate the long block pretty inexpensively.

Not cheap, but everything was new, and I opted for the more expensive route on things like the water pump, custom pistons, rocker hold downs, head studs etc. Ray can chime in as well, he mentions in that thread where he managed to save money.

I don't know if it was ever run in a car or not but BES made a 712 hp 401? under 6500 RPM with one carb. Throw out the RPM limit and low speed TQ requirements of engine masters and it should not be that hard.

While a bunch are not yet retrofited in old lightweight muscle cars or race only cars they are running really impressive ET/MPH considering the 4500 Lb modern tanks that are out in mass.

Even the lowly 2008 345 HP 5.7 cop car responded really well to a real exhaust and long tube headers. It went from tire chirping to endless tire frying with zero other mods, unfortunately we have no drag strip around here to measure precise improvement on. The bigger motors with bigger heads should see similar or even bigger gains.

I bought my 426 shortblock used. Intake to pan including headers I only had 5k in the whole thing including motor plate and my front cover was machined when I went to DW 13. After DW, i pulled motor and Dan(rip) put new pistons in it $700, hone rings and bearings. And switched to a Dominator.

QUOTE: buy a 6.4 short block from the dealer for around $2500

Boy howdy! You are almost right. $2800-ish depending on the source.

Anyone want buy a manifold (Air gap) to pan pro built 360/EQ long block? Lol!

The newer VVT engines are not as desirable as you have to deal with the cam phasing garb and related camshaft. In production form they seem to make good power for what they are, but they would not be a first choice for a traditional power build up to swap parts on to.

I need a motor for my ride and I'm stuck between a 440 based setup or possibly a G3 based platform. I've considered a 6.4 Apache motor, but to run a simple carb and MSD box, would require the goofy cam phaser "locking" (and still using stock timing set) along with a manifold swap. And then there's the MDS junk and the MDS lifters which would need to go. Along with that, then new valve springs and pushrods would be the right thing to do...this adds up quick, not to mention all the time involved. You would have to get a really good deal on a VVT motor to cover all the band-aid fixes to make it barely reasonable for a high performance N/A breather. Of course, this doesn't really matter for an EFI forced induction.

It seems as though the greatly demonstrated pre VVT block buildups are still the way to go for a G3 performance motor. Just look at Dustin's build to see the successful and well proven approach.

Notice the the engine masters stroker buildups all use non VVT based motors.

I also agree with the statement that a G3 vs BB build will cost similar for a 600-700HP build. I've run the numbers too and its about a wash with all things considered.

I'm still very intrigued by the G3 and would like to move to this platform...we'll see

my two cents...

Some of you guys still don't get it. Most of us oldtimers are old school and can make our stuff as fast or faster BUT we know the game and how to find deals. Never and I mean never have an empty wallet when a deal comes along and be prepared to jump and not try to weasel a guy out of more money when you know it's a killer deal. Hesitation is a bad word. But deals like this are far and few for the new stuff on the market. I hope more guys switch over to gen 3's. Lol

QUOTE: But deals like this are far and few for the new stuff on the market.

Could be the wedge stuff had a 30+ year head start?

At least. LOL. Loving it more everyday.

You may get your chance for more used wedge parts. Apparently Edelbrock is coming out with a 3 valve Gen III head

Someone needs to bring out a tall deck block for these things (KeithBlack you listening?)

Saw a big gas 6.4 (truck engine, but has Hellcat heads, block, forged pistons) on EBay for 4500 ish (new crate engine). Add an SRT cam, springs, Arrow intake and you over 500 hp. Get wild with your cam, port the heads and your WELL over 600, approaching 700 if your cams burly enough and you bump compression. No need for bottom end work on that one

So what would be the power potential on a Gen III naturally aspirated engine of there were a block available to go to 500" ?

Thiteks are well over 400 cfm if I remember correctly. I'm guessing a 500" Gen III with Thiteks would break 900 and approach 1000 if a scienced out combo and you buzzed the piss out of it? Yes No???

700+hp hyd cam pump gas 400ish cube doesnt impress you something is wrong.mid/high 9sec NA pump gas hyd cam full weight street cars dont impress???i know theres not a ton of gen III stuff out there but common ill take one over an old school time bomb 440 anyday.

I think if the doubters headed over to the lxForums (or any other Gen III forums) and see some of the times those guys run at 4500 lbs and started extrapolating them to their 2800-3400 lb cars they'd be suprised

thats the prob no research has been done.......i have no dog in this fight im still oldschool myself but im not ignorant to their potential.