I put the 440 back in the 71 charger. After took out to get the car painted
There is no carpet in the car and the clutch pedal has about the same amount of travel as the gas pedal.......
It has new clutch/pressure plate. New adjustment rod.
I could turn the nut on it by hand almost out to the end of the rod.
How much travel should the pedal have?
(Car is 71 charger)

From the top of the pedal travel to the floor as far as clutch pedal travel. Mopar are horrible on the clutch design, engineering and functioning Most have to be adjusted so the clutch starts to disengage at the top of the pedal travel to get the clutch disc to have free play between it and the flywheel and pressure plate

I ain't a clutch/stick guy but I think you want ~3/4" freeplay at the clutch pedal when you first press on it till it "contacts" and iirc a better/more accurate is a certain amt of clearance between the disc/'wheel with pedal depressed. and you would want that linkage coming off either of the bellcrank arms to be in a straight plane of movement.

That's way too much adjustment on the rod. The nut DOES turn by hand though. The slotted side of the nut should be in towards the washer.

There should be a washer and another kind of cone-shaped washer between the fork and the nut.

- do you have the plastic bearings in the z-bar?
- is the fork clipped to the pivot in the bell
- is the fork clipped to the throwout bearing?

Is this a stock bell or scattershield?

When I had the motor/tranny in before paint. I do not remember it being like this. I pulled them out as a unit. Z bar is new. All new bushings. Stud. Spring clips. All new and installed
The rod from pedal to z bar is level. As to why I thought was a stupid question on the install when put back in
I don't have the car with me (should got to Brung back home today but didn't happen)
Anyone have a 4 gear 3rd Gen b body. That can possibly measure from bottom of the clutch pedal pad to the carpet for me ?

I guess you could put the Z bar in wrong and it would some grief. I think one arm is a bit longer than the other so that would cause the screw to be at its limit.

I don't know about your's but the arm next to the bell on my '69 z-bar has two bends in it. Its wider than the other arm and it has holes for the bushing clip and a hole for the tension spring from the fork.

A couple of points..
1. Pedal free-play
The crucial spec is that the throwout bearing must be pulled back about 0.125" from the pressure plate. A common mistake is to adjust freeplay up top @ the pedal, the problem with this doesn't take in consideration of any worn linkage parts.
2. Z-bar
It is easy to confuse between Z-bars as more than 1 may be the same width but have different tab positions for the adjusting rod. The crucial point is to use a Z-bar so that its tab position permits the adjusting rod to push the fork in a linear motion, so that the adjusting rod should be parallel to the bell housing.


Just my $0.02...

If I get to bring car home tomorrow...IL try take a pic or 2

Ok. Car is home. So i got to looking at it. And took a few pics....if I can get them to laod?..
Seams the pedal was over centered. Pulled up on it and is where it should be. But...... why is it not coming all way back up on its own?
It's like when you don't have the clutch pedal hooked up and you shove on it. It will smack the floor. The clutch/pressure plate is only thing keeping from hiring floor. It's still breaking over center
Pedals spring and shifter all came out of a bench 4 speed 3rd Gen mopar car (that's what I wanted)
Well my pics are to big to load

Is the over center spring installed under the dash? Also is the return spring installed on the clutch fork?

So there's definitely a problem somewhere ... the pressure plate should have plenty of pressure to pull the pedal back close to the top. The overtop spring's purpose is mainly to assist when depressing the clutch with a B&B style pressure plate - it will also snap the pedal to its stop as long as there's no binding anywhere.

Possibly the wrong clutch rod (pedal to z-bar) - too short.

email me your pics and I'll resize and post them.
stanton_giles@hotmail.com

Is the new clutch a diaphragm pressure plate? Some (most) diaphragm pressure plates need to have the over-center spring removed. And be sure the fork return spring is installed, they often go missing.

Thank you I sent so let me know if they went through
How long over all should the rod from pedal to z bar be and il measure mine

Here are photos of toplesscuda's set up.

What kind of clutch?? Its been many years but if I remember right I had to take the over center spring out to get the pedal to come up on a centerforce diaprham style

From the photos there's nothing that appears to be wrong !!

Well what the crap ?lol

You still haven't answered the question....is it a diaphragm pressure plate?

Maybe you just have the wrong adjuster. If you go to Brewers site there are like six different kits and some adjusters are visibly longer than others.

It's stock clutch/pressure plate like what came in it
Buddy of mine was wondering if it came off the pivot inside the bellhop sing. But I will have to pull tranny cause can't see to tell if it did other wise

If it came off the pivot you'd know it ... it would flop up and down as well as back to front. You could probably even stick your finger in and feel it.

There are also different height fork stands in the bell housing. I had one crack. IT kept bending. Different length forks as well. Call Dan at Brewers he'll straighten you out.
Doug

Well unless someone has one can measure to compare to mine. It's just a crap shot if I have a part that's not right

1) is the pedal coming all the way up?
2) is there roughly 1" of pedal travel before the clutch disengages?
3) do all the components "feel" right? (nothing's just flopping around anywhere)
4) can you push the clutch pedal right to the floor (or very close to it)?


If the answer to those is "yes" I'd order a longer threaded rod and be done with it. Everything "looks" fine in the photos. You might even be able to still get the longer rod at your local Chrysler dealer.

1) on its own no. Bout half way up. But you can take and pull up by hand pretty easy. It's not in a bind.
2).......
3)nothen really feels like it's not really connected
4) after it gets past the over center it goes towards floor and rest (on its own) bout same heigth as gas pedal. You can shove the pedal rest way to floor and at that point feels like a normal clutch setup

I had exactly the same problem. What is causing this is the difference between a Diaphragm and Borg and Beck style pressure plate and associated throw out bearing.

If you're running a Borg and Beck you'll need a longer adjusting rod for proper clutch movement. Right now the bearing isn't contacting the pressure plate until the clutch pedal is near the floor simply because the pressure plate engagement rods aren't in the same location as a diaphragm pressure plate would be. Lengthening the adjusting rod will allow you to move the resting location of the bearing closer to the pressure plate levers so clutch disengagement will happen closer to the top of clutch pedal movement.

When I swapped to the Borg and Beck style I set up the clutch rods exactly how they were before the swap. I used pics I took before disassembly to verify everything was replaced exactly. After noticing the problem with the clutch pedal I removed the return spring on the throw out fork and I could move the fork rearward quite a bit before the bearing contacted the pressure plate and from that I could see the solution is a longer adjusting rod.

^^^^ Ding ding ding we (may) have a winna. It does make sense since nothing in the pics appears out of order/& the descrip sounds copacetic & that there is a "travel" issue somewhere.

Ok. Thank you. IL have to try to make a rod set up for it

Hope you get the problem solved. Keep us posted.

Iv came up with a rod that someone made longer. So I get a chance il put it on and see how it acts

I use the Mopar stock A body SB V8 clutch rods in all of my B body cars, their a lot longer stock

That is a great idea!

Ok I finally got to mess with it again...
I had a old rod that someone welded up. But it was 2 inches to long
I cut it. Re welded it
Made huge differance. If I can take the slack out of the rod to pedal il be good..
So i have a question. Can I adjust the lower rod pushing the throw out bearing against the pressure plate fingers/arms to take the slack out of the top rod or should the bearing not touch while pedal at rest?

Bearing should not touch - that's pretty much what the 1 inch of pedal free play does along with the spring on the fork.

Agreed. The bearing should NOT touch the forks during rest. Quickest way to wear out the bearing. There also needs to be a little slack in the system. My preliminary setting is to have the bearing touch the forks after about an inch or two of pedal travel. Once the car is in running condition you can adjust from there to have the clutch start to engage at a point where it "feels" right.... usually when the pedal is a little less than half way up from the floor.

It's not touching right now. I can pull the pedal up up bout a inch and it will break over with the over center spring. That's why I was asking
The pedal now is up off the floor like it should be

There's something terribly wrong if you have to pull the pedal up at all !!

Do U have the properreturn spring on the fork down below...
Note the OE spring has certain tension specs that many universal springs don't have..
On my 70RR I had a similar problem replaced the subject spring with the rite one all is well..

Just my $0.02...

Yes the correct spring is on the pedal

If I shoved the clutch in and released it. The pedal would look normal I guiess. But I can grab it with my hand and pull a inch or so and feel the pedal go over center

You say its a "stock clutch" which is a Borg and Beck. If the pedal doesn't come ALL THE WAY up on its own then either its out of adjustment or there's something binding.

You should have ONLY 3/4" to 1" of free play in the pedal. Any more is the reason the pedal won't come all the way up. Adjust at the fork rod. What this does is the pressure plate now moves the pedal back past the OTT spring and the small spring on the fork now has enough ommph to pull the pedal to the top.

Then you have too much free play in the pedal. Forget about the free play measurement at the pedal and set it at the fork like the book says.

You need to adjust the clutch with the pedal all the way up. The over center spring should hold it there. Then adjust the clutch linkage so the bearing has no more than a half inch movement before it contacts the forks. Then when you push on the pedal it should only move an inch or two before you can feel the bearing engage the forks and release the clutch. That's a good starting point for final adjustment once the car is running.

Climbed back under the car...
If..... ya shove clutch pedal down. And release. The throw out bearing rest on the fingers of pressure plate
If I grab the pedal by hand and pull it up 2 inches or so. Until it rest on the bump stop. Then it does not. For the life of me I can't fig out why the pedal does not fully come up

I took 7 pics of it the setup

I took another look at your pics and it looks like the "Z" bar may be binding in this pic.



The nut on the right looks off plane to me. Also, take a close look and make sure its not rubbing on the exhaust header. It looks awful close in the pic.

It's not in bind anywhere. Before I put the rod from.
Z bar/clutch fork. On The assembly moved very easy by hand

I saw what "centerline" is seeing when I first posted those shots BUT the ball stud on the bellhousing is in the right plane so if anything I thought that the frame bracket was possibly welded on too far forward and crooked.

I you want to email those new pics I'll resize and post them.

I just posted them on facebook

Thank you. I sent them to your email

It seams that there is a hole on the z bar and that is where I put the spring. Was told it should connect to the bellhousing. So I went to the shop and moved it to the bellhousing. But it didn't help any
Stanton. Thank you I sent the new pics to your email

I can adjust the rod more towards the end but the t.o. bearing will touch all the time even if pedal is all the way up.

Update...again lol I placed the pedal so with little movement will break over on its own (in limbo)
And adjusted the rod till I heard the pedal brakes over
I adjusted it more while using some heavy paper between finger and t.o. bearing to make sure wasn't touching.
I got it where it would come all way up on its own. But after shoving pedal down 5-6 times notice each time it got a little less closer to the top...my thoughts on this is the shoulder of the new nut working into the new washer
It does make a hard thud/clunk when the pedal hits the stop. Is something missing? I know it don't do/sound like that when new lol

There is a rubber on the stop - right? A "thud" should be noticeable, after all, the OTT spring has just kicked in !!

Keep in mind the purpose of the OTT spring. It is there as an "assist" to depress the clutch BUT it (the spring) can't be engaged at all times or it would hold the pedal down enough to hold the TO bearing in contact with the PP. So when the pedal gets back up about 1" from the top the spring crosses a threshold whereby it now pulls the pedal UP - with quite a bit of force (if you've ever tried to stretch one of those buggers you know what I'm talking about). So yeah, there's going to be a "thud".

Maybe it's just louder cause there is no int.in the car

Very likely. Didn't get the photos - you send them to the same email as last time (with a _ instead of a - , right?)

I took this pic before tearing the car down. This shows where the return spring is attached to the bellhousing. The adjustment rod is the short version since the car originally had a diaphragm style pressure plate.