smashing out stuck pistons
#2290196
04/18/17 08:01 PM
04/18/17 08:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
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mro
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Is there a better way of doing this then continually smashing at these ? have to go through the top - the crank is stuck in place.
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290203
04/18/17 08:10 PM
04/18/17 08:10 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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What engine?
I don't think pistons can be taken out thru the bottom on very many engines.
Pour some Winter Green on top of the pistons/around the rings, let it soak for a few days, pour in more Winter Green as it might drain away past the rings.
Turn the motor upside down, pour in more Winter Green, let it sit for a few days.
Then pound away from the bottom.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290204
04/18/17 08:12 PM
04/18/17 08:12 PM
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mro
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383 RR 69 - I could swear I took the 392 pistons out through the bottom - it was years ago - I could be wrong
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290220
04/18/17 08:30 PM
04/18/17 08:30 PM
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mro
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Its been soaking in kroil for 7 years....no joke - really. Its the original engine to one of my cars that I am not using - but i'd like to send it out for a rebuild. 7 years of soaking - thats seriously stuck
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290227
04/18/17 08:38 PM
04/18/17 08:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,519 Lansing, MI
70gtx440dana
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I had to break the pistons out of a 440 that sounds similar to your situation. It takes awhile.......big hammers and chisels. Not fun!!!
Start on the worst looking ones. After you get a couple out you may be able to turn the crank!
70 Road Runner 383-4 4 speed FJ5 & black guts 70 Charger R/T 440-4 4 speed FJ5 & white guts
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290333
04/18/17 11:46 PM
04/18/17 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
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mopar346
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Drill multiple large holes in the pistons to make it easy to bust them out. Once they are out you can concentrate on the crank.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290425
04/19/17 05:05 AM
04/19/17 05:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Its the original engine to one of my cars. 7 years of soaking - thats seriously stuck Just me I would not want to chance cracking a cyl wall so I would go to town with a drill as to not risk any cyl wall damage. But I ain't been in that position so jmnho.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290448
04/19/17 08:51 AM
04/19/17 08:51 AM
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Spaceman Spiff
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If your going to send it out to be rebuilt, why not have the machine shop do it? Yes it will cost money, but it may be better than damaging it trying to get them out yourself.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290452
04/19/17 09:03 AM
04/19/17 09:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406 New Jersey, USA
yella71
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Drop the wrench and step away from the engine... sorry but from what I am reading you have NO idea what you are doing.
71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air
99 sebring convertable
89 CTD pup
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: AndyF]
#2290483
04/19/17 10:49 AM
04/19/17 10:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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6PakBee
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Knock them out from below using a long rod or pipe. Just get the pipe pushing against the bottom of the piston crown and then pop it hard with a 5 lb sledge and the piston top will break off. Only takes a couple of seconds once you get the hang of it. If you have cast pistons, this way works well. When I was a kid and made money selling scrap cast, every junk dealer would dock you half the weight because of the aluminum pistons. Removed literally dozens of pistons this way and I can't remember the block being damaged on any of them. Never encountered forged pistons but I would bet you couldn't use this method on them.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290515
04/19/17 12:15 PM
04/19/17 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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383 RR 69 - I could swear I took the 392 pistons out through the bottom - it was years ago - I could be wrong I'll go with wrong ... Be careful smashing out those pistons , I tossed a 68 440 HP2 block because a friend smashed out the pistons , and smashed a huge hole in one cylinder wall. Get dry molasses and a big tub and soak it in it for a few weeks ...
running up my post count some more .
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290517
04/19/17 12:21 PM
04/19/17 12:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Its been soaking in kroil for 7 years....no joke - really. Its the original engine to one of my cars that I am not using - but i'd like to send it out for a rebuild. 7 years of soaking - thats seriously stuck Kroil is useless for something like that . I had a 400 that was stuck , but the crank wasn't stuck , i put it on an angle and sprayed PB blaster on the tops of all the pistons after hitting the walls with a wire brush on a drill to remove the scale. did one side then the other , long pipe on a breaker bar and a brass hammer hitting the tops of all the pistons I could reach and I got the thing to spin over. rust was only above the pistons though. It was a 230 block but still needed 5 sleeves due to pitting and core shift.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: 440_Offroader]
#2290519
04/19/17 12:24 PM
04/19/17 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Throw the block in a hot tank... All the aluminum will mysteriously disappear! Haha!! Next to impossible, if not impossible, to find those type hot tanks anymore thanks to the EPA... Plus I don't think the owner of said tank wants his solution trashed ...
running up my post count some more .
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290537
04/19/17 01:20 PM
04/19/17 01:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
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mro
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yella 71 - dude - I am so clueless. ya see - I thought this was a place where I could ask questions and get answers. You ever want to match car collections let me know...champ
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290538
04/19/17 01:24 PM
04/19/17 01:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
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mro
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John RR, I did cracked and sleeved 2 years ago smashing the hell out of it - exactly what i'm trying to avoid
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290541
04/19/17 01:28 PM
04/19/17 01:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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MRO you are doing great, post all you want/whatever you want. this is where we solve problems/dilemmas. EDIT the bore(s) may need drastic overboring and or sleeving but at least getting the pistons out WO damaging the bores is good procedure/mindset. (keeps Mr Murphy at bay). I would sharpen a bit & get after it.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/19/17 01:40 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290554
04/19/17 01:49 PM
04/19/17 01:49 PM
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mro
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Thanks - finally building/finishing my 69 RR after 13 years of metal work and body work. Went slow because of my job. Anyway - I did forget a lot of stuff on these cars from when I was younger - but not everything.
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290595
04/19/17 03:26 PM
04/19/17 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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Here's how I got the pistons out of a Mercedes block that had had a head gasket leak and the ethylene glycol had literally glued the pistons in. Before starting, the crank has to come out. First I got a chunk of aluminum the same size as the bore, placed it on a piston top and gave it a couple of hearty whacks with a 2 1/2 lb hammer. The piston moved but was in no way going to come out. So, I got a piece of 5/8" rebar and turned the block upside down. Placing the rebar inside the piston skirt, I knocked the tops out of the pistons. IMHO someone who gets into the cylinder walls doing this is either unlucky or careless. Turn the block over and thread a length of small diameter wire rope around the wristpin, and out the top. Here's the tricky part, I used a hollow piston hydraulic jack and was able to run the wire rope through the center, clamp it on top. Then I jacked the pistons out.
The first oversize is 0.5mm or 20 over. I bored the block myself at a high school auto shop and then had it finish honed with a Sunnen power hone. After the cylinders were honed to fit the pistons, there were still some small grayish-black pits visible. I put the engine back together and it runs great.
At that time, 1979, a new bare block was $1300. So I had no desire to bore any larger than I had to. Never had another problem with that engine. BTW, that engine had a forged crank and every journal showed the signs of being induction hardened. It was way too complicated but that engine was beautiful inside.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 04/19/17 03:28 PM.
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290607
04/19/17 03:57 PM
04/19/17 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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"smashing pistons". Sounds like a band name from the '90s.
My strategy has always been to just beat the almighty living crap out of them any way I can and somehow they come out.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2290668
04/19/17 07:16 PM
04/19/17 07:16 PM
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mro
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Taking a short j bar to them with a sledge - I know they will need sleeves. I like the idea of drilling reliefs. ThANKS for all the input. m
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: AndyF]
#2290749
04/19/17 10:36 PM
04/19/17 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,655 western PA
mopar4ya
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I had a very rusty engine last summer that I went through this with. It soaked for 3-4 months in and out of the molasses bath as parts SLOWLY came off. After everything was off the engine except the crank, rods, and pistons I tried everything to get the pistons out. A couple did come out with the hammer and a heavy rod, driving them out the top. In the end after several weeks of trying I ended up pulling them out. I drilled a 5/8 hole on each side of the wrist pin, opposite of each other on the end of the pin and dropped a 1/2 wire rope cable down around the pin. A cable clamp to tie the cable together, a block of wood, a large pipe and a 20 to short bottle jack pulled them out of the holes. I put pressure on 1 at a time with the jack, heated the cylinder the best I could through the soft plug holes and used lots of ATF/acetone mix. I would give the jack a couple of pumps each morning before I would leave for work, come home and put some heat on it and give the jack another pump or two, what ever it would take. Some holes took 2-3 days before they came out, but every day you could tell they were moving. I did not hurt the bores in the block.
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mopar4ya]
#2291051
04/20/17 03:21 PM
04/20/17 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
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Interesting thread. I have a 68 TNT 440 with stuck pistons. I thought it was junk. I recently read an article on this and saw a couple pictures of holes drilled into pistons. Not much mention of ring ridge removal. Is it not an issue at this point? Lots of good advice and alternatives here. Gives a fella hope. Thanks guys.
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: bboogieart]
#2291130
04/20/17 06:09 PM
04/20/17 06:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Not much mention of ring ridge removal. Is it not an issue at this point? I would for sure would use it first IF I took em out as is.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2291156
04/20/17 07:01 PM
04/20/17 07:01 PM
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mro
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The hammering isn't going so well. I may not have the hang of it - though...but none seem to move - the backstory - this engine came with one of my RR and it is numbers matching....the reality after thinking about it is it might have been a junk engine anyway. My thought was to have it rebuilt - and put it back in. I mean - the original owner must have pulled it for a reason. Anyway - I beat it last night - NOTHING MOVED...outside of my shoulder. And the engine in the car will probably stay there. I figured the rebuild to stock would be 3500 - start adding removal and sleeves - it will escalate quickly - and for what ? Just thinking - I don't know. Not sure.
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2291167
04/20/17 07:19 PM
04/20/17 07:19 PM
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mro
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I thought the same thing - none moved.
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2291168
04/20/17 07:19 PM
04/20/17 07:19 PM
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mro
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Will go try again right now - i have about an hour to work it
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2291170
04/20/17 07:22 PM
04/20/17 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Sxrxrnr
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I am visualizing a multi-ton hydraulic floor jack with some type of arrangement with a chain to strap the block to the jack,,,or some other mechanism to make it immovable,,,and a very stout metal (metal pin or some such) held against the pistons from top or bottom. And the other end against the jack pedestal.
Something like placing block onto a hydraulic press and pressing them out. Have no idea how to manipulate and manage a block of several hundred pounds onto a press,,,,perhaps possible using a cherry picker,,,or perhaps the heavy duty jack idea may do it. Under extreme pressure and a few well placed slams with a big hammer may work things loose.
As I said, just visualizing.
Don't give up.
Likely you have checked out all the heavy duty liquid wrench type products. There are a wealth of them. I have often read of auto transmission fluid mixed with acetone that some swear by.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 04/20/17 07:27 PM.
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2291222
04/20/17 09:03 PM
04/20/17 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
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I like the idea of the bottle jack sitting on a block of wood across the bores. That is the easiest and safest method I've seen in this thread.
It uses the strength of the piston by pulling on the piston pin.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2291258
04/20/17 09:54 PM
04/20/17 09:54 PM
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mro
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OK - I really actually beat the living hell out of one. It moved about a 1/16 - or at least thats what it looks like between the rod and crank. Probably not a great question but it there a way of cutting the connecting rods without destroying the cylinder walls ? If I can remove the crank I can hit these right
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: mro]
#2291259
04/20/17 09:56 PM
04/20/17 09:56 PM
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mro
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The pitting on the lower walls is horrible. This might all be a waste O time.. will post a pic
68 Satellite Wagon and a few other ones
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: AndyF]
#2291260
04/20/17 09:57 PM
04/20/17 09:57 PM
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BSB67
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You can't get any pistons out? You should have a least a couple of pistons near TDC at any one time so work on those first. Take the rod caps off and tap out the rod bolts so you don't scratch anything and then pop those pistons from below. Once you get those guys out move on to the next couple of pistons that you can get to. Once you get 3 or 4 easy ones out you might be able to rotate the crank and get the next ones out. This, and what Andy said earlier. I've had pistons that I could not remove with a 2 ton hydraulic jack but I could beat out. If you have not hit it hard enough to bust out the piston top, you have not hit it hard enough. You have to use a sledge hammer, unless you are a really big guy that know how to swing a 3 lb hammer.
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: RTSrunner]
#2291490
04/21/17 11:46 AM
04/21/17 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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6PakBee
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You guys are overthinking this. It isn't brain surgery or rocket science. Take a small steel rod or a piece of pipe and a 4# beater, go from the bottom and take the tops out. The rest will follow.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: blewbyu]
#2295899
04/29/17 01:17 AM
04/29/17 01:17 AM
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Polarapete
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As long as you did not hurt the cylinder wall you may be able to use that block....of course aluminum melts at 1270 degrees, so you could have just melted them and had some puddles of aluminum to play with or maybe make some new pistons...
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: Polarapete]
#2295970
04/29/17 10:25 AM
04/29/17 10:25 AM
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blewbyu
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Once the tops were knocked out the pistons came out real easy. Cylinder walls look perfect.
Last edited by blewbyu; 04/29/17 10:26 AM.
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: blewbyu]
#2295986
04/29/17 11:20 AM
04/29/17 11:20 AM
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6PakBee
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Once the tops were knocked out the pistons came out real easy. Cylinder walls look perfect. A voice, crying in the wilderness.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: smashing out stuck pistons
[Re: Porter67]
#2296313
04/30/17 12:05 AM
04/30/17 12:05 AM
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blewbyu
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Thats great and I see no signs of blood on the floor.
Nice batch of.... destroyed pistons ya got there. Yes it's a miracle as one time I lost a finger tip pulling a motor out of a car by myself. Think I will keep one around for a conversation piece and when they asked what happen I'll just say too much NOS and blew the top of piston off.
Last edited by blewbyu; 04/30/17 12:06 AM.
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