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72-93 D200 front suspension questions #2281354
04/03/17 06:27 AM
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Wyle E Coyote Offline OP
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I have a '72 D100 chassis under my 66 Dodge pickup. This chassis is a factory disc brake option truck. (Discs became standard in 73) I'm thinking of going to 3/4 ton for a number of reasons that I won't get into now. What I'm wondering is two main things. First, What year would you recommend that I get my parts from? Secondly, are the 3/4 and 1/2 ton A-Arms the same? I seem to recall that they are, in which case I might not need that part from the donor.

Thanks everyone! up


25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2281754
04/03/17 06:12 PM
04/03/17 06:12 PM
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I don't now for sure but I'd expect you're right.
If you need any measurements I've got an '89 D250,'85 D350, and '76 W200.
I would caution you, there is almost no selection of 16.5 tires, and both 16.5 and 16 inch truck tires are all over $125 each, at least in my area.
If you know of any cheaper choices let me know!

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2281816
04/03/17 08:24 PM
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i think the ball joints are different which may mean the a arms are different-----parts house will have the numbers....

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2281909
04/03/17 11:09 PM
04/03/17 11:09 PM
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Dodge gave you several options on front suspension. Most trucks could be had with a light duty, or the heavy duty suspension, depending on what box was checked when the truck was ordered. There was really little rhyme or reason other then checking the desired box on the order form. Most times, the suspension and the steering parts are tied together, seldom did one get heavier unless the other also got heavier, but there are those few examples that didn't follow the suit.

D100 is a light duty nearly car suspension. It generally came on slant 6 or 318 base model trucks.

D150 is the heavy duty version for a 1/2 ton, and resided under most 1/2 ton trucks. These featured larger brakes, and a higher capacity springs. They also had larger ball joints and tie rods.

D200 is a light duty 3/4 ton truck. It was basically a heavy duty 1/2 ton with 8 bolt rotors and 8 rear brakes with a Dana 60 rear axle assembly.

A D250 was the heavy duty 3/4 ton truck, often referred to as a "Camper Special". It had larger brakes, heavy springs, and larger suspension parts, it was a heavy duty truck.

A D300 is a one ton truck. It could be had with single rear wheels or dual rear wheels. This was the same basic truck as the Camper Special 3/4 ton with the option of getting dual wheels. There was also a heavy duty 1 ton that had big truck underpinnings, but those were pretty rare. Most guys that wanted a heavy duty 1 ton bought a big truck instead.

To add complexity, any truck could be ordered with rear overload springs, they were additional springs spaced above the original spring pack and seated against brackets on the frame when the load reached a certain point. Usually, but not always, when overloads were ordered, the truck got the next up spring and suspension package.

To make things even more fun, somewhere along the course of truck building, Dodge eliminated the extra size listings and went with a 150, a 250 and a 350, but any could have had the light duty suspension or the heavy duty suspension and steering components.

A truck with a "D" prefix is a 2 wheel drive. A truck with a "W" prefix is a 4x4 truck. For a while, Dodge decided to call the D trucks 150, 250, and 350, but the same version of the W trucks were 100, 200, and 300. Are we having fun yet?

So in answer to your question regarding brake rotor and other parts swapping between a 5 bolt and an 8 bolt, the correct answer is: YES, and NO! Some parts from a heavy duty 1/2 ton and a light duty 3/4 ton will swap, you just have to know which parts are on which truck.

Fortunately, Dodge often referred to truck suspension as a weight capacity, two trucks of the same weight capacity should have the same suspension. The nice thing is, one doesn't have to look very hard to see if the parts are the same size, its pretty obvious a light duty version is very much lighter then the heavy duty version. Gene

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: poorboy] #2282045
04/04/17 07:44 AM
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Wyle E Coyote Offline OP
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Thanks for the info Gene. I didn't know about the difference in say, 100 vs 150. I always thought that they went to the latter number to change things up a bit. You know, mostly for sales gimmicks. Anyway, I knew about the whole "light duty D250s" and such, because my Dad had an '86 D250 with the "light duty" front axle. We discovered this the hard way, while trying to replace a blown wheel bearing on the side of the road. And we also learned about many other one year only things that the '86 came with. Which is kinda why I was inquiring. So maybe I should phrase the question this way; If you were going to swap out the front suspension from 1/2 to 3/4 ton on this '72 chassis, what year of truck would you take it from?

If the question pops up of light vs heavy duty, I imagine that light duty will be fine. I don't currently haul anything that I feel I'd need a high load capacity, nor do I foresee that in the future. The step up is mainly for using the truck to tow a travel trailer, and maybe carry around extra camping gear like firewood, bicycles, etc. Larger steering joints and bearings for the added stresses, and larger brakes for obvious reasons. At first I'll be running a 360, but a stroked 440 is possible in the future. Mainly because I really want to build one and I really don't have anything else to put it in.

Another reason why I want to swap this stuff is because I need new rotors and such, and I don't even know what they're from. I went to service the bearings years ago and found out that someone had swapped the whole spindle and brake assembly from an unknown vehicle, TO the donor chassis. And the Hollander only shows Dodge van for the interchange. Anyway, I want to get this thing going for my 84 year old Dad to knock around in until he can't drive himself anymore. Then..., in comes the stroker! up

Thanks again.


25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282064
04/04/17 09:43 AM
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i always thought the jump from a 100 to a 150 to a 1500 was fueled by marketing to make people think they were getting a bigger 1/2 ton truck---kind of following ford and chevy doing the same thing----i never noticed them being offered in the same year---oh well......

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: savoy64] #2282100
04/04/17 11:14 AM
04/04/17 11:14 AM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Originally Posted By savoy64
i always thought the jump from a 100 to a 150 to a 1500 was fueled by marketing to make people think they were getting a bigger 1/2 ton truck---kind of following ford and chevy doing the same thing----i never noticed them being offered in the same year---oh well......


When unleaded fuel was mandated for passenger cars and 1/2 ton pickups is when the 150 designation came out. It was just enough extra GVWR to skirt the mandate.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282395
04/04/17 06:57 PM
04/04/17 06:57 PM
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Wyle E Coyote, How big is that travel trailer you want to tow?

Modern is a relative term. I have a 2003 1500 Dodge sitting here, everything on the front end of that 1500 is way more heavy duty then most of the 72-93 stuff until you got into the 1 ton stuff.

When Dodge came out with the new designed 1994 trucks, everything older became obsolete. Finding parts for pre 94 anything is getting harder, and will only get worse. Most of the aftermarket simply quit making things for the earlier then 94 trucks almost overnight. If you truly want to upgrade your 66 pickup to something you will be able to get parts for, I would look for at least a 2001 Dodge (2001 was another chassis update and is almost 18 years old now) and swap out the chassis. The modern Dodge trucks are at least consistent in parts usage, but it will probably be a pretty big undertaking. You would be putting your cab, box and front sheet metal on the newer frame/chassis.

If you want more easy, locate a complete 73-93 heavy duty 3/4 ton pickup chassis, and swap all the front and rear suspension and brakes over, then hope the next time you need parts, they are still available. Gene

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282503
04/04/17 10:26 PM
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Wyle E

I have DT parts books here from 72 thru 83 and will scan any pages you want I just I'm not sure where to start.

I will start with control arms

Red

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282508
04/04/17 10:34 PM
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I'm not sure how clear this is?

Red

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg
Last edited by BIGGERED; 04/04/17 10:42 PM.
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: poorboy] #2282667
04/05/17 07:55 AM
04/05/17 07:55 AM
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Wyle E Coyote Offline OP
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Hey Gene! cool

I'm shooting for the 8-10K range for trailer weight towing capacity. I'm keeping my eyes open for a vintage travel trailer to restore and take out, and I want to pull it with a matching vintage vehicle. And they're often much heavier than modern trailers. If it gets beyond 10k, I'll likely just get a late model Diesel pickup. But I'd rather use the old truck. But this is several years down the road at this point.

As for obsolescence, I'm sure there will be some of that, especially since it's not a GM vehicle. But I'm just wanting to work with what I've got. I have several ideas for other suspensions and/or chassis swaps. Each one being more involved and expensive than the next. I just want to keep this low buck, quick and simple right now. For the short term, the truck will sit a lot at my Dad's place, get driven once a week or so down to the hardware store or something, and only really work if I need to haul or tow something (which won't likely be very far). Long term, the truck comes back to me and I'm highly likely to build a full tube chassis and drop in a 440 Source stroker kit into a 440 I have and go blast around trying to make my wife pee her pants. laugh

My immediate need is for some rotors. But since they're apparently from a car, I have no idea what they're from. So I basically have to replace my spindles/rotors, just to know what I have. So it makes sense to me that if I need to change those, that I bump up to the 3/4 ton stuff. And make it a more practical vehicle that way.

I remember from my Dad's 86, that it had a Quadrajet carburetor, a GM steering column (and maybe box) And something else that seemed distinctly GM.. Maybe the master cylinder? Anyway, with the slight mix of GM stuff, maybe some years had interchangeable parts with GM? shruggy I guess that I was hoping that someone had this info on the top of their head.


25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282825
04/05/17 02:06 PM
04/05/17 02:06 PM
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My guess would be that the car rotors on your truck are probably off a big late 60s or early 70s Chrysler (likely both of those are the same part number). Those were probably the same rotors originally installed as an optional disc brake set up for the 1 year only brake option on your 72 truck chassis. The standard 73 disc brake setup was probably specifically designed for the truck chassis and may, or may not have used the same rotor. The difference being; an optional disc brake rotor for a 72 only truck may not have a part number listing, or the number could be superseded to the car rotor, very few 72 disc brake units may have been sold. When the disc brakes became standard on the 73 truck, every 73 truck rolled off the assembly line with those rotors.

Disc brakes were still a relatively new thing in the automotive industry in 72 (1st introduced into production in 65 I believe, by Chrysler). Since the truck chassis was also new in 72, it would follow a Chrysler tradition of using off the shelf parts, if at all possible, as an option on a new design chassis or a body change on a product line.

I would look into the idea the car rotors on your truck are from a big Chrysler, but they also might not be available. Maybe the guy above can check rotor numbers for a 72 pickup, against the rotor number for a 70 Chrysler New Yorker. Might also want to check the rotor number on a 73 Dodge 1/2 ton light duty pickup as well. As a side note, Chrysler upped the size of a lot of car brake rotors in 73 across the product line.

If you have access to a light duty 70s era 3/4 ton brake rotor, I think I would see how it fits on your spindle, and check to see if the caliper will still clear the rotor. You may also find that the 70s era light duty 3/4 ton spindles and brakes will bolt on to your ball joints and tie rod ends. Gene

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282876
04/05/17 03:24 PM
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Most of your rotors are 73-78 that were the same for cars like a New yorker, Polara and light trucks. If your thinking of a spindle change from a car. It will not work.

Last edited by 68dodge; 04/05/17 03:25 PM.
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2282978
04/05/17 07:17 PM
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Do the spindles have a parts number? There should be a place to look that up online. If they are truck or van parts they should be in the parts book Biggered has.

Maybe they are the correct parts and you got the wrong bearings. It seems more likely wherever you got the bearings from had the wrong listing since they were 1 year only parts.


1970 Dodge d100/eventually going on a 77 D100 frame
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2283203
04/06/17 03:31 AM
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Wyle E Coyote Offline OP
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Ok, I'll go through the story (quickly) about my current parts. But since this was 22 years ago, (I built it in early 1992 and she's been parked since 2002), there will be gaps in my exact recollection. The truck chassis was a 72 according to the VIN. It came with factory installed overload springs, making it a D150 I guess. Anyway, in about 1995, the brakes were getting bad so I tore it down to get the rotors turned and such. I decided to replace the bearings while I was there. I took the rotors down and they were barely legal, but the shop turned them enough to make them true again. The parts house gave me the bearings that the book called for. (Back then the store I dealt with verified everything the computer said by their books, since that was a rather new thing and was frequently wrong)

When I got the parts home, the new bearings were far larger than what came out of the hubs. So I cleaned up the old bearings and the seal and headed back to the parts house. We matched the bearings and seal by the number stamped in them. Out of curiosity we looked up the small bearings and there were lots of references for cars, but nothing for trucks or vans. We checked the 73-up bearings, and although they weren't the small ones, they were different than the 72 also. I called a source of mine at a wrecking yard and he confirmed that the Hollander manual (in 1995) showed an interchange between the Dodge B van and the pickup for 72 as a one year only for disc brakes. For 73 and beyond, a totally different part but still the same for truck and van. Nothing else was listed in the interchange manual.

So here's where I'm at now with this. I don"t know, much less care, what these spindles are from because they're far smaller than what should be on the truck. Once I get it tore apart, maybe I'll find a casting number on it and run it. If I can figure it out, I'll make it known. If nothing else as a bit of trivia information. What I am after is replacing it with known components that are beefy enough to handle the job. At this point they could be GM parts for all I care. And since I'm replacing these parts, I was curious to know if there were years to avoid or years to seek?

I was hoping that someone might reply like the following example; "Get the 90-93 truck parts because the rotors, pads and calipers were the same as early 90's GM trucks.", or something like that. Whatever is on there now is going away. I just don't want to buy donor parts from a truck that is already known to have parts availability problems. Like the 72 or the 86 for example.

Thanks everyone! apimp


25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2283236
04/06/17 09:34 AM
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Wyle E

It appears that 1/2 ton Dodge trucks share front steering knuckles from 1973-1980, along with upper and lower (3000-3600# axle) control arms

3634908 and 3634909 knuckles

There are differences in the Arm-steering- knuckles between at least 73 -78 along with 79-81

1973 3634920-1

1974-77 3634924-5

1978 3634924-5

79-81 4088048-9

I can parse through this some more later if you want

Red

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2283315
04/06/17 01:10 PM
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My 79 van is a B-300, and my parts unit is an 81 B150. I think they changed the rating numbers in ~1980, about the same time they went from 'sportsman' to 'ram'. I suspect this is the same in the trucks as well, just a model designation change only. Seem to recollect my Hollanders saying the suspension parts are mostly the same, with some upgrades in 1978-79.

Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2283357
04/06/17 02:30 PM
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Wow! Lots and lots of misinformation here. Wylie, don't change anything yet or buy anything yet till we can figure out which of the 2 suspension ratings you currently on.

Lunch is ending, I'll have to post more later...


Angry white pureblood male
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: BIGGERED] #2283781
04/07/17 07:18 AM
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Red: Yes! Please do. What info do you have about the A-Arms themselves? Since I want to strip everything from one donor truck, I'd think that the most important thing is if the mounts on the frame will accept the parts from the donor. This might be more involved than simple interchange listings, because it's not like I'm trying to use a newer spindle with an older arm, or something like that. Or maybe we need to look at frame measurements to see if the mounting points from 72-80 and 81-93 differed?

Rustbucket68: I felt the same way about it. Like when Ford went from F-1 to F-100 then to F-150. Just a simple change to make the vehicle sound newer.

Ruderunner: No worries, I'm not changing anything yet. This is research time only. I have several other ideas for front suspension. I'm trying to start by working with what I've got. But unfortunately, I'm not sure of what I got. And I don't want to throw good money after bad trying to remedy the situation. And as far as axle weight rating, I'm sure that the lighter one will be fine. Because just remember, I'm not planning to carry a big load, just pull one.

Everyone: At work tonight (technically last night I guess), I had a couple of thoughts.

1. Since the spindles are from an unknown car, what assurance do I really have that the A-Arms aren't also? I can't guarantee anything at this point. Maybe when I get it apart and can find some casting numbers?

2. If this gets too involved, I'll just hunt for a full chassis, or just have the yard whack it off back under the cab. Then I'll take my pick-up bed trailer and remove the hitch head and graft on the newer front onto it.

Thanks again everyone!


25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
Re: 72-93 D200 front suspension questions [Re: Wyle E Coyote] #2283886
04/07/17 12:24 PM
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Wyle E.

Why do you think the spindles are from a car? I am pretty sure front disks were a option on a D100 in 1972.

Also your topic says D200 suspension yet you mention a D100 chassis. I am assuming your hope is to upgrade from a D100 to D200. Am I correct?

Red

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