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#2283817 - 04/07/17 08:11 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: BradH]
OUTLAWD Offline
top fuel

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 1812
Loc: Plymouth, MI
Originally Posted By BradH

C.I.=493
C.R.=10.5:1
Application: Street/strip, 3700lb w/ driver, 9.5" ~4400 converter


Probably stay 4150, then go proper MPI down the road at some point.
Hood clearance isn't too much an issue, I should be able to fit an adapter and N2O plate under the scoop


Attachments
019-2016-hot-rod-drag-week-launches.jpg


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#2283915 - 04/07/17 11:02 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10231
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
RB, true MW sized manifold, 4150 carb pad....... Pretty much narrows it down to a 440-2 or 440-2D.

For MPI use, I would think the 440-2 would be the preferred choice.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2283938 - 04/07/17 11:48 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3188
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
I realize this has yet to be tested, but for a RB block and the 270 head, what would the preferred intake be? I am running a 4150 now, so I would likely run an adapter on the Dommy intakes

Super Victor, port-matched TF, 440-3?


There are lots of choices for RB intakes with MW ports. For a race engine I'd probably start with the Super Victor but the Mopar 337 is also a very good intake. People have had good luck with the 440-2 over the years. Then there are the multi-carb intakes such as the cross ram, Indy X ram and Mod Man. There is even the Indy DP which is available with MW ports. I wouldn't run the dual plane on a race engine but it works nice on a street engine.
I was looking for an opinion on the Modman intake if you care to get into more detail.


Edited by Clanton (04/07/17 11:49 AM)
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#2283963 - 04/07/17 12:40 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: Clanton]
Cab_Burge Offline
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 29397
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Not to hijack but I have dyno tested two different sets of heads that flowed 30 CFM different with every thing else the same, compression, camshaft, intake manifold carb, but not the same rocker arms due to testing a set of Indy SR M.W. that flowed 340 CFM @.700 lift and then a set of CNC ported 440-1 that flowed 370 @ .700 lift. I had Harland Sharp 1.6 ratio rockers on both sets of heads, I tested both sets of heads on two different short blocks and the bigger heads made 48 HP more on the pump gas 518 C.I. low deck stroker(727 HP with the SR and 775 HP with the 440-1) and they made 70 HP more(775 with the SR and 845 with the 440-1) on the high compression 526 C.I. RB motor.
IHTHs
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#2372777 - 09/18/17 01:44 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By RustyM
Andy: Will there be other pulls with the 279 heads on the 470?
Fwiw- hoping that's the case.

Thanks


As long as I have money and time I'll keep testing. I'm in the process f sending the Indy intake to Wilson for porting. Not sure if I'll also convert it to EFI at the same time or wait for a third round of testing to go EFI.

I might send the heads to Jesel for rocker arms. They haven't seen a set of 270 heads yet so I might be the guinea pig for them. If that deal works out then I'll send the heads to Dwayne also since both places are on the East Coast. If the deal with Jesel doesn't work out then I'll just keep running the T&D rockers.

In any case it will probably be a couple of months before I'm back on the dyno with this engine and these heads. My next project is to get the 514 back on the dyno with EFI and Q16.



Well it ended up being 5 months not a couple but I am ready to take this 470 with the 270 heads back to the dyno again. I pulled off the dry sump system and will go with a wet sump pan and an external belt drive pump. I'll be interested to see how that works.

The more interesting test for me will be the Wilson M1 vs. the Wilson Indy intake. The Wilson ported Indy intake has 18% more internal volume. It is taller and has the full MW runners. The Wilson M1 made a little better power than the unported Indy intake last time I ran them but I figure the Wilson porting on the Indy intake should now make it the top of the pile.


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#2372779 - 09/18/17 01:49 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
Here is a side by side shot. I'll test these two intakes and then I'm going to run the engine with and without a vacuum pump. I think that is all I'm going to test. Haven't figured out what else to do with this engine. Might sell it or maybe convert it to EFI. The Wilson Indy intake is just begging to be drilled for EFI so I could do that I suppose.


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#2373419 - 09/19/17 03:21 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
SILVER67 Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 709
Loc: Liverpool, NY
So would the 270's be a touch on the small side for a bracket/street 540+ cube build?
Looks like some good power on an under 500 engine!
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#2373427 - 09/19/17 03:26 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
All depends on how much power you want to make and how high you are going to run the engine. The 270 heads with a matching MW intake would be a pretty good street combo with a 540 inch shortblock. Might run out of steam at 6500 rpm or so at the track. But, unless you used high dollar parts you probably don't want to spin a 540 much past 6500 rpm anyway. Especially if it is a stock block. You didn't really provide enough info to answer the question so I'll say it just depends.

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#2373428 - 09/19/17 03:26 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: SILVER67]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10231
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted By SILVER67
So would the 270's be a touch on the small side for a bracket/street 540+ cube build?


No worse than RPM's on a 505.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2373511 - 09/19/17 05:54 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10231
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Too bad you don't know someone near you with a stock(or stock-ish) 400-3 you could use for a quick back to back test.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2373530 - 09/19/17 06:19 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
SILVER67 Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 709
Loc: Liverpool, NY
Oh yea
Aftermarket aluminum block
Pump gas (93)
Some street here and there
Weekly bracket
3,500+ car
Auto trans

Or at that cube is the -1 more wise ?
_________________________
Competition Wedge Engines Brewerton, NY

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#2373531 - 09/19/17 06:23 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: fast68plymouth]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Too bad you don't know someone near you with a stock(or stock-ish) 400-3 you could use for a quick back to back test.


I already ran the 400-3 in stock form and it wasn't anything great. I have the Wilson M1 to use as the control sample since I also ran it on the last dyno test. I don't think I need two control samples.

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#2373538 - 09/19/17 06:33 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10231
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
But...... It was a dry sump with that test.
Not the type of true "back to back" I like to see.

Since the intakes are so easy to swap on these motors, I figured if there was one available.....

But, I'm not paying the bill....... So I get it.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2373568 - 09/19/17 07:41 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
I think we're saying the same thing. I had the Wilson M1 on the engine when it was dry sump and now it is wet sump with the Wilson M1. Everything else is the same. Cam, heads, ignition, carb, etc. The only change is dry sump to wet sump and the weather.

So that test with the M1 will tell me if the dyno numbers are repeating from the last test. Once I do that baseline then I swap on the Wilson Indy intake and see what the difference is.

Since I have the baseline back to my last test I'll also be able to compare the Wilson Indy to the OOTB Indy intake. And I'll be able to compare dry sump to wet sump as well as vacuum pump to no pump.

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#2374181 - 09/20/17 08:36 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
I built a new bracket so I could hang the vacuum pump chamber off the back of the cylinder head. I'm interested to see how this chamber works. It appears to be a dual chamber air/oil separator kind of setup. I like it since it provides a place for the exhaust to dump into as well as a place to pull the intake from.


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DSC_1264 (Large).JPG



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#2374183 - 09/20/17 08:41 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
I also designed up a little baffle for the inside of the valve cover. I think this will work, guess we'll find out shortly.


Attachments
DSC_1244 (Large).JPG

DSC_1245 (Large).JPG



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#2374185 - 09/20/17 08:44 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
rickraw Offline
top fuel

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 1905
Loc: Ambridge, Pa.
That's professional.

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#2374213 - 09/20/17 09:26 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
davenc Offline
mopar

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NC, USA
I can't tell how big those channels are, but in reviewing the MEWagner PVC valve instructions the point about having a good sized opening on the baffle to reduce air velocity to reduce ability to carry oil made a lot of sense to me. I added some 1/4" standoffs to my existing baffle.

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#2374262 - 09/20/17 10:28 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
Scott440 Offline
mopar

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 429
Loc: New Mexico
AndyF, First, thank you for sharing this amazing R&D.

For those of us with max wedge ports and 1.5 rockers, it's still impossible to know how much we'd gain with 1.65 rockers, because your 1.5 rockers were only tested with standard ports right?

I think this was a question you were curious about, and some of us would have wanted to know too.

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#2374289 - 09/20/17 10:50 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: davenc]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23051
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By davenc
I can't tell how big those channels are, but in reviewing the MEWagner PVC valve instructions the point about having a good sized opening on the baffle to reduce air velocity to reduce ability to carry oil made a lot of sense to me. I added some 1/4" standoffs to my existing baffle.


The channels in the vent have roughly the same cross section area as the #12 line so it should be fine.

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