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#2278550 - 03/29/17 08:25 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
This is the port match out of the box for the Indy 400-3. My guess is that you are leaving 5% of the power on the table if you run this intake as is. The port match isn't even close to be correct. If Indy would just spend 5 minutes and run a CNC pass around each port and matched it to their intake port it would save the little guy a bunch of time and effort.


Attachments
DSC_0465 (Large).JPG




Edited by AndyF (03/29/17 08:26 PM)

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#2278579 - 03/29/17 09:09 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10221
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
2 sides to every argument......
The opposite view to "ootb intakes suck" is.... I've made 850hp with an ootb Indy 440-3.
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#2278607 - 03/29/17 09:40 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
csk Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 843
Loc: KATY TEXAS
picture is not great, but my 400-2 looks about the same as Andy's

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19224947_1413292565396115_7838440587402544531_n by Charlie Keel, on Flickr

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#2278611 - 03/29/17 09:46 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: fast68plymouth]
csk Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 843
Loc: KATY TEXAS
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
2 sides to every argument......
The opposite view to "ootb intakes suck" is.... I've made 850hp with an ootb Indy 440-3.


Thats good to know,, WAY more power than my combination can make smile
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#2278644 - 03/29/17 10:25 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
How much of what we see in these mismatches can be attributed to core shift and how much to manufacturers not matching intakes to heads?

Thanks for all the helpful info guys- appreciate all you share.

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#2278680 - 03/29/17 11:05 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9418
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
I kind of like having a good port necked down a smidge at the opening so I can match it exactly to my heads, it makes the manifold a little more flexible as to what it will work with.
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#2278822 - 03/30/17 10:32 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: RustyM]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By RustyM
How much of what we see in these mismatches can be attributed to core shift and how much to manufacturers not matching intakes to heads?

Thanks for all the helpful info guys- appreciate all you share.


I consider it a missed opportunity by the mfgs to make extra money. If I sold CNC heads and I sold intake manifolds then the very least thing I would do is offer a CNC matching intake for an additional charge. The intake manifold already has to be in a machining center in order to surface the carb pad and drill and tap the bolts. Why not spend another 5 minutes of machine time and CNC the plenum for an extra $100 of revenue?

Indy will CNC their dual plan intake to MW size if you ask so they know how to do this work. No idea why they don't take the next step and provide a good port match on the rest of their intakes.

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#2278987 - 03/30/17 03:15 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
So air flow was 887 -890 cfm with 240 heads on that set up?

Be nice to know what it is with the 270 as well.

Thanks

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#2279199 - 03/30/17 09:19 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Had some issues today but did manage to get some pulls done. One thing we figured out was that the billet valve covers are worth some horsepower so we switched over to them mid-day.


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Edited by AndyF (03/30/17 09:19 PM)

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#2279231 - 03/30/17 09:54 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
Twostick Offline
master

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 4709
Loc: Downtown Roebuck Ont
Well it's too early for April Fools so what's the deal?

Bulletproof valvetrain is distorting the head because of giant roller cam spring pressure so the billet valve covers act as a girdle?

I don't see any oil lines to them for spring coolers. work shruggy

Kevin

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#2279237 - 03/30/17 10:00 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: Twostick]
Skeptic Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4158
Loc: The Pale Blue Dot
Better sealing with a vacuum pump?
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#2279248 - 03/30/17 10:08 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
Probably that throttle return spring not matching the valve covers.

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#2279257 - 03/30/17 10:15 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Pan vacuum

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#2279268 - 03/30/17 10:34 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
Twostick Offline
master

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 4709
Loc: Downtown Roebuck Ont
Originally Posted By AndyF
Pan vacuum


How much were you losing?

I would think the other covers would leak oil if it was that serious of a vacuum leak but I guess the vacuum would prevent that.

At atmospheric they probably sealed up fine to keep oil in so negative pressure distorted the clear tops?

Kevin

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#2279315 - 03/30/17 11:35 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Picked up more than 10 hp by changing covers. No distortion, the vacuum just sucked in the gasket. We saw the pan vacuum drop so we started checking for a leak. Couldn't fix the valve cover in time so swapped on the billet valve covers and gained power.

Holding pan vacuum was one of the primary reason why I designed the billet valve covers in the first place. None of the other valve covers that I tried would seal up tight so I made my own.

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#2279363 - 03/31/17 04:17 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
Please forgive a dumb question but, I won't know if I don't ask:
How does the pan vacuum make more power?
Better ring sealing?
Oil staying away from crank journals?

Thanks

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#2279393 - 03/31/17 07:37 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
PETE@BESTMACHINE Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 389
Loc: SouthEast Michigan
Would be nice to see actual dyno sheets to back up all these claims of horse power changes. Just saying
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#2279406 - 03/31/17 08:08 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: PETE@BESTMACHINE]
Coldart Offline
member

Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Minnesota
Who's oil pan?
Looks nice, clean/sanitary package.

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#2279445 - 03/31/17 09:26 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
You can see the pulls on you tube Pete.
Not as much data as a sheet but, the screen recording does help.

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#2279513 - 03/31/17 10:50 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: Coldart]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By Coldart
Who's oil pan?
Looks nice, clean/sanitary package.


Oil pan is one I had custom made. It is a billet pan.


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DSC_9640 (Large).JPG



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