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#2278295 - 03/29/17 11:13 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10165
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
So you won't be giving anyone a real world test to go by. I'd bet 99% of people reading about this test will use an out of the box intake if they were to use these heads.

Small heads w/ an expensive great flowing intake versus big heads w/ a crappy flowing intake. I'd like to see how much the bigger heads are worth over the smaller ones w/o having to make an assumption about the difference the intakes make.
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 446" w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'01 Ram 2500 QCSB 4x4 Cummins...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2278305 - 03/29/17 11:56 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
4406forPOWER Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 1328
Loc: Nebraska
Andy, did you just have Wilson do their Competition porting on your M1? I'm looking at getting a 4150 version done. Thanks

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#2278310 - 03/29/17 12:10 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9156
Loc: W. Kentucky
Apples to oranges IMO. Realistically all you are doing is testing two engine combinations, no compairisons.

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#2278312 - 03/29/17 12:13 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: justinp61]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10165
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By justinp61
Apples to oranges IMO. Realistically all you are doing is testing two engine combinations, no compairisons.

iagree
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 446" w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'01 Ram 2500 QCSB 4x4 Cummins...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2278323 - 03/29/17 12:26 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3229
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Do you have oil restriction on the head in any way?Rocker oiling?
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#2278337 - 03/29/17 12:41 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: an8sec70cuda]
KOS Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1367
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
So you won't be giving anyone a real world test to go by. I'd bet 99% of people reading about this test will use an out of the box intake if they were to use these heads.

Small heads w/ an expensive great flowing intake versus big heads w/ a crappy flowing intake. I'd like to see how much the bigger heads are worth over the smaller ones w/o having to make an assumption about the difference the intakes make.


100% correct....whether its down on power or not your going to give it a fair comparison.the only way to do it is same manifold on both.

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#2278365 - 03/29/17 01:38 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8099
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Why not look at how each head works compared to the other, running the intake that most people would run for that port size? It doesn't make sense to me to do it any other way. The one thing I would do would be a port match, so each head/manifold COMBO is getting a fair shake on the dyno, and would be very representative of the way each head will be used.


Edited by gregsdart (03/29/17 01:40 PM)
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528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
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#2278372 - 03/29/17 01:47 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
I have to wonder what the costs are in having intakes for both heads models and those port matched for each, not to mention dyno time.

I too was hoping for direct comparisons but, it does seem costly.

Just my thoughts.

Perhaps the best comparison at this point would be the trick flow Intake with the same Carb / spacer set up he used on the 240 engine.
We know the difference the dry dump/ compression made, thus we can extrapolate from that point- perhaps?

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#2278375 - 03/29/17 01:53 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
BradH Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13374
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By BradH
popcorn

Also, what are the dimensions of those dyno headers? scope


2 x 32 with 3.5 collectors made by old Jere himself back around 2000 or so. They have held up well over the years. They were super expensive back then but I suppose it has been a good value over the years.

drool

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#2278381 - 03/29/17 02:01 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: RustyM]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10165
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
I bet you could buy 2 new Trick Flow manifolds for less than just the port work on that one MP manifold from Wilson cost.
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 446" w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'01 Ram 2500 QCSB 4x4 Cummins...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2278383 - 03/29/17 02:04 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
I'm sure we could by two.
I think the Wilson was to " see what's possible ".
What's possible was pretty cool.

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#2278385 - 03/29/17 02:05 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: 4406forPOWER]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23311
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By 4406forPOWER
Andy, did you just have Wilson do their Competition porting on your M1? I'm looking at getting a 4150 version done. Thanks


Yes it was the competition porting package. They added a lot of weld material on the outside of the runners in order to open them up to where they needed to be for a 470 inch engine.

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#2278390 - 03/29/17 02:12 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: RustyM]
BradH Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13374
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By RustyM
I have to wonder what the costs are in having intakes for both heads models and those port matched for each, not to mention dyno time.

I'll take a w.a.g. at about $1500 for what you described, including some (not all) of the dyno expenses.

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#2278393 - 03/29/17 02:17 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
Yep- multiply that by several model intakes,,,,,,,,

Oh for endless budgets!

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#2278410 - 03/29/17 03:11 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
csk Online   work
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 896
Loc: KATY TEXAS
Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?

Thanks Charlie

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#2278476 - 03/29/17 05:19 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: csk]
ou812 Offline


Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 5313
Loc: SoCal
We'll have our 270 heads soon...hope we don't go outside the usable rpm range of the hyd. roller cam with them.

Andy are you going to try the edelbrock Victor MW intake on the 270 heads?
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#2278504 - 03/29/17 06:48 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: ou812]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23311
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By ou812
We'll have our 270 heads soon...hope we don't go outside the usable rpm range of the hyd. roller cam with them.

Andy are you going to try the edelbrock Victor MW intake on the 270 heads?


I'm on a low deck so my Wilson prepped Super Victor will not fit. If that intake would fit then it is the one I'd use. (although the ports in that intake are larger than the small window ports that TF put in the 270 head)

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#2278505 - 03/29/17 06:49 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23311
Loc: Oregon
Got the engine stripped down to the short block this morning and put back together before lunch with the 270 heads. We'll fire it up in the morning.


Attachments
DSC_0435 (Large).JPG

DSC_0487 (Large).JPG



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#2278507 - 03/29/17 06:55 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: csk]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23311
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By csk
Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?

Thanks Charlie


Just depends on your point of view. The average bracket guy can bolt it on and run just fine but if you're trying to squeeze power out of an engine they leave a lot to be desired. The port size is small, the plenum is poorly cast, etc. If you ever have the chance to compare an Indy intake casting next to a Trick Flow casting you'll see that Indy doesn't really put much effort into their pattern making. The plenum on my 440-3 is really sloppy. The cloverleaf pattern is uneven and the casting quality is kind of poor. On a high horsepower engine that uneven pattern is going to mess up the fuel distribution between cylinders. If you compare a raw Indy casting to an intake that Wilson has prepped you'll see a world of difference.

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#2278525 - 03/29/17 07:33 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
csk Online   work
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 896
Loc: KATY TEXAS
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By csk
Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?

Thanks Charlie


Just depends on your point of view. The average bracket guy can bolt it on and run just fine but if you're trying to squeeze power out of an engine they leave a lot to be desired. The port size is small, the plenum is poorly cast, etc. If you ever have the chance to compare an Indy intake casting next to a Trick Flow casting you'll see that Indy doesn't really put much effort into their pattern making. The plenum on my 440-3 is really sloppy. The cloverleaf pattern is uneven and the casting quality is kind of poor. On a high horsepower engine that uneven pattern is going to mess up the fuel distribution between cylinders. If you compare a raw Indy casting to an intake that Wilson has prepped you'll see a world of difference.


Thanks Andy, not much choice on the low deck max wedge, when I got mine had to open up the ports to MW, & clean up the plenum, but mine is mostly a street car. Thanks again.

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