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#2253979 - 02/15/17 09:47 AM Interesting read on American made vehicles
Rhinodart Offline
Rhinotruck

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 37119
Loc: Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Constantly I get people telling me how much better their foreign vehicles are than what I drive and that they think those vehicles are "more American", but like normal they don't dig very deeply and trust what is told to them. eyes Discuss...


https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/04/21/the-truth-about-american-made-vehicles.aspx
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#2253995 - 02/15/17 10:17 AM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
wingman Offline
Uncreative Title

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 2378
Loc: St. Charles, MO
Unfortunately consumers have very long memories when it comes to bad experiences.

Though largely undeserved now, some American car companies are still paying the "perception" price for the crap products they put out in the late 70's and 80's.

It's often hard to gain someone's trust, but very easy to lose it.

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#2254003 - 02/15/17 10:37 AM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
67SATisfaction Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 7026
Loc: Albany, NY
There is a lot of material to cover or debate there.
They don't provide links to their sources, etc, but The Motley Fool has been pretty solid throughout their history.

Discuss? Glad to.

Economy: - I think it's hard to argue against the basic idea of this article that if we Americans are concerned about our domestic economy, we should buy American - and not just cars - everything we can. It's us taking care of our own. Do we still flock to cheap foreign products? Yes. How do we change this behavior? Convince people that it's better to have fewer, costlier, but high quality things in our lives instead of more and more cheap, poorly made, crap.
Who needs to do this convincing?
- In America, our manufacturers must to this via advertising, although I know there are some State Gov'ts that run ad campaigns too.
- In a lot of Europe they typically do it via Value Added Tax structures, but I'm not an expert on that.

Reliability: - With the global mobility of automotive engineers, computing power and design resources, all auto makers can produce reliable, long-lasting cars. But they don't all do it. Why? Because the choice about reliability and lifespan is still made by each manufacturer. And it is made very deliberately at the highest levels of management, because the amount of investment to achieve that goal is measured against the result, which depends on the product's price point vs brand image vs market placement vs sales volume projections vs revenue, etc.

Side note:
I don't understand why the piece is dated April 21, 2013, but then talks about our new administration's first 100 days in office, which is set now in 2017.

Cheers,
- Art


Edited by 67SATisfaction (02/15/17 10:38 AM)
_________________________
1965 Satellite hardtop 361/2bbl, auto, pegleg 2.76
1967 Satellite convert 383/4bbl, auto, pegleg 3.23
1975 Maserati Bora, 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 2.5L SOHC hemi V6, 5-spd transaxle
1994 Alfa Romeo 164LS, 3.0L SOHC 24v hemi V6, 4spd auto ZF
2007 Aston Martin DB9, 6.0L DOHC V12, 6spd full manual transaxle

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#2254007 - 02/15/17 10:50 AM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: 67SATisfaction]
wingman Offline
Uncreative Title

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 2378
Loc: St. Charles, MO
Originally Posted By 67SATisfaction

all auto makers can produce reliable, long-lasting cars. But they don't all do it. Why? Because the choice about reliability and lifespan is still made by each manufacturer. And it is made very deliberately at the highest levels of management


Ding!

Auto manufacturers don't make money by selling cars that last 20 years, even though they have the technology.

That is why in 2017 I still see 5 year old $50,000 pickup trucks rusting out over the rear wheel wells. frown

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#2254010 - 02/15/17 10:54 AM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: wingman]
67SATisfaction Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 7026
Loc: Albany, NY
Originally Posted By wingman

Though largely undeserved now, some American car companies are still paying the "perception" price for the crap products they put out in the late 70's and 80's.

It's often hard to gain someone's trust, but very easy to lose it.


Also very true - that list may not matter much to a buying public who has the completely wrong perception.

- Art
_________________________
1965 Satellite hardtop 361/2bbl, auto, pegleg 2.76
1967 Satellite convert 383/4bbl, auto, pegleg 3.23
1975 Maserati Bora, 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 2.5L SOHC hemi V6, 5-spd transaxle
1994 Alfa Romeo 164LS, 3.0L SOHC 24v hemi V6, 4spd auto ZF
2007 Aston Martin DB9, 6.0L DOHC V12, 6spd full manual transaxle

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#2254107 - 02/15/17 02:04 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
SNK-EYZ Offline
master

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 8189
Loc: Lost in Space
Interesting article.

It will take getting people to not blindly believe that imports are better, and that assembled in America is not the same as truly being an American company.
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#2254138 - 02/15/17 03:24 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
Supercuda Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 14098
Loc: up yours
The other day I saw a small car on the road. Had a USMC sticker on it and another one that said some along the lines of "I'm a Marine and proud of it". He was driving a Tercel.

I laughed, jarheads never were too smart.
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#2254145 - 02/15/17 03:36 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 19827
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
The only reason American cars have decent quality is because American car makers were shamed into it by the Japanese auto makers.
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#2254151 - 02/15/17 03:46 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: SNK-EYZ]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 21032
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By SNK-EYZ
Interesting article.

It will take getting people to not blindly believe that imports are better, and that assembled in America is not the same as truly being an American company.


But imports are better.... when it comes time to put the for sale sign on it you can at least get something! stirthepot

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#2254175 - 02/15/17 04:26 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: DaytonaTurbo]
Jer Offline
mopar

Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 687
Loc: Rochester NY
This was based on a 2013 Kogod School of Business report. This is a 2013 article, as well.

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#2254194 - 02/15/17 05:06 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
mopars4ever Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11257
Loc: md
Most of the car buying consumers are really uninformed. Most buyers are just jump on the band wagon type people that buy what everyone else thinks is cool at the time.

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#2254217 - 02/15/17 05:55 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: wingman]
chargervert Offline
master

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 8901
Loc: RI Deep in the rust belt
Originally Posted By wingman
Originally Posted By 67SATisfaction

all auto makers can produce reliable, long-lasting cars. But they don't all do it. Why? Because the choice about reliability and lifespan is still made by each manufacturer. And it is made very deliberately at the highest levels of management


Ding!

Auto manufacturers don't make money by selling cars that last 20 years, even though they have the technology.

That is why in 2017 I still see 5 year old $50,000 pickup trucks rusting out over the rear wheel wells. frown


My 2005 Ram has no rust over the rear wheelwells,but it has the plastic wheelwell liners. It has spent its whole life here in the rustbelt,and right now it is covered with so much roadsalt I am having a tough time telling what color it is! The Rams I see that don't have the plastic wheelwell liners around here are all rotted badly.
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#2254305 - 02/15/17 08:25 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
70Cuda383 Offline


Registered: 10/07/03
Posts: 21345
Loc: Marysville, O-H-I-O
A honda is more American than a chevy because 80% of the vehicle is built in the US whereas only 60% of a Chevy is.



Oh, but chevy sells twice the volume so that's like saying it's 120% made in the US, and that's better than 80%


Proof that statistics are just numbers spun in a way to bolster your own argument/agenda/platform.
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#2254348 - 02/15/17 09:16 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
poorboy Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6523
Loc: Freeport IL USA
The reality is, its not so much where the car was built, but how the customer was treated after the sale. If a guy buys a new car and has an issue, if its fixed properly the first time, with the least amount of hassle, the owner isn't bothered so much by the fact there was a problem, because it was fixed quickly and correctly the first time.

However, if he buys a car and has a problem, gets a runaround at the dealership, and has to take it back 2 or 3 times to get it fixed, he is upset with the car.

The issue I hear about most is how a dealership handled a customer problem. If a problem with a car was handled well, everything is good. If it was handled poorly, there is a problem with the car. American car dealerships do not have a good track record with quality customer service, while many of the foreign car companies have a reputation of fixing the problem with the least amount of hassle for the customer.

Most people are concerned about their own experience. Cars are mechanical and electrical machines. Sometimes things go wrong, the "ME" generation isn't concerned that 1,000,000 people have the same issue with the same car line, as long as "mine" was fixed quickly and with as little drama as possible, all is good. They have little concern that only 50 cars like theirs had their issue, if they had to fight to get it fixed and it took 4 trips to the dealer to get it done. In their mind, the car is junk.

The quality of the car is tied to the response of the dealership handling a problem, right or wrong. Until the American car companies change how they handle new car issues, the perception of the quality of the cars is not going to change. Have a company that steps up to take care of the customers after the sales advertise they are building new factories to build cars in the USA, adds fuel to the fire. Gene

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#2254361 - 02/15/17 09:40 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: John_Kunkel]
Morty426 Offline
master

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 8792
Loc: Sacramento CA
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
The only reason American cars have decent quality is because American car makers were shamed into it by the Japanese auto makers.


Absolutely true

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#2254363 - 02/15/17 09:42 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Morty426]
Rhinodart Offline
Rhinotruck

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 37119
Loc: Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Never had one single issue with our 85 Shelby Charger, in fact we still have it though it has rusted too much to ever drive again, same thing as any other 80's foreign car that was actually daily driven in the midwest... shruggy
_________________________
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!

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#2254502 - 02/16/17 09:12 AM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: 70Cuda383]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 21032
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By 70Cuda383
A honda is more American than a chevy because 80% of the vehicle is built in the US whereas only 60% of a Chevy is.



Oh, but chevy sells twice the volume so that's like saying it's 120% made in the US, and that's better than 80%


Proof that statistics are just numbers spun in a way to bolster your own argument/agenda/platform.


That's false equivalency and will only fool those who want their own narrative reinforced.

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#2254603 - 02/16/17 12:02 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
2boltmain Online   content
master

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 3702
Loc: MI Allegan county
Im still amazed GM kept installing inferior intake manifold gaskets in their sixes and eights all thru the 90s and early 00s. Ford kept right on going with spark plug thread then spark plug problems. Followed by phaser tensioner and idler issues. I have paid for new intake gaskets on my daughters 3.1 and it was $650. I can only imagine the price to rip into a Ford V8 to replace the VVT stuff and or idlers tensioners and chains. I just want to change my fluids often, treat my car great and make it past 200k without spending thousands. Oh yea- the Chrysler engines ending with a ".7"...

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#2254643 - 02/16/17 01:29 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: chargervert]
MONC Offline
master

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 3001
Loc: The Historic Hudson Valley
Originally Posted By chargervert
Originally Posted By wingman
Originally Posted By 67SATisfaction

all auto makers can produce reliable, long-lasting cars. But they don't all do it. Why? Because the choice about reliability and lifespan is still made by each manufacturer. And it is made very deliberately at the highest levels of management


Ding!

Auto manufacturers don't make money by selling cars that last 20 years, even though they have the technology.

That is why in 2017 I still see 5 year old $50,000 pickup trucks rusting out over the rear wheel wells. frown


My 2005 Ram has no rust over the rear wheelwells,but it has the plastic wheelwell liners. It has spent its whole life here in the rustbelt,and right now it is covered with so much roadsalt I am having a tough time telling what color it is! The Rams I see that don't have the plastic wheelwell liners around here are all rotted badly.


Bought my 1996 Dodge Ram new. While the engine runs like a top ( now at 156K on the odo), the fenders and doors are rotted to sh*t.
And yes they have the plastic wheel well liners.

My 87 K Car was a piece of crap from the get go.

Once I got into a cheap import for $300, and drove it to over 300K miles I never turned back...
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#2254645 - 02/16/17 01:30 PM Re: Interesting read on American made vehicles [Re: Rhinodart]
p d'ro Offline
pro stock

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 1545
Loc: MD
My '89 Daytona died with 89k mi and dealer maintenance.
My '95 Formula FIrebird bought new leaked bad off the showroom floor, although it was a fast badda$$ car
My current 2007 Avalanche with 90k mi. tranny and tcase blew with 60k miles two weeks after extended warranty died, 6 months after getting dealer tranny service.
Now it died on a snowy highway with "Reduced Power Mode" two weeks ago and again this week. Getting Throttle Position Sensor codes and on Edmunds there are 550 posts about this on 2003-2011 trucks. GM finally put out a service bulletin to cover faulty TPS for 2008-2011 trucks and wont cover mine even though IT IS THE SAME PART #!!! Also many fix that, replace the throttle body, replace the harness, and it still happens. I am suspisious as mine has only happened once in snow and once in rain. Probably like many have in the TPS harness, a broken wire inside insulation. I am trading for a Titan or a Toyota truck..
Wife has a 2001 CR-V with 115k that has only needed oil and a timing belt and still looks brand new...

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