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Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2235282
01/16/17 01:55 PM
01/16/17 01:55 PM
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Posts: 16,128
Mesa, Arizona
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dart4forte Offline
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Originally Posted By MuuMuu101
Well, I took the Dart to it's first autocross event. The course was nothing complex and had a lot of sweeping turns and large straight aways. The average runs were in the low 50 second range. There were good and bads to today.

Good:
-The commute to the autocross event (26 miles) and back was very trouble free. The car loved to cruise at 2000 rpm.
-The car is a blast to drive and there's so much potential in the car (or should I say myself).
-I had fun racing and hanging out with old friends.
-My number for the year is 408. wink

Bad:
-The exhaust drone is absolutely, stupidly unbearable. The 30 min drive back home was not pleasant what so ever.
-The car is cold-blooded. It never really likes to start going until the water temps are about 150F. If I try driving the car before that, odds are it will probably stall.
-Out of 2 of my 4 runs, the car stalled on the first corner under light throttle causing me to roll off course and DNF. Very weird. It would take quite a bit of cranking to start it up again. I would exit the corner and bam, the car shut off. Water temps was 180F during my runs.
-I got last because the car stalled twice.
-The car got 6.7 mpg after my first fill up. I need to verify my odometer is accurate. Granted that was about 95% street driving.

Overall, I got in last place. My goal for the day was just to get a feel for the car and get a sub-60 second run which I accomplished. I wish the car hadn't stalled on me the other two runs, otherwise I think I could have got it down to 56 seconds with my skillset. It definitely felt like it could take more speeds in the corners; however, since I'm tire and experience limited, I decided not to push it.


Takes awhile to sort out a new build. Doesn't sound like a bad day. Yes, that drone would drive me insane. Consider the amount of time on the track verses on the street deciding on an exhaust change. Do you have carpet in the car? If not consider a coating like Rhino Linner or Raptor. Throw some deadening on top of that.

As far as stalling you may want to look at fuel delivery. What size line are you running, any restrictions, fuel bowl level etc. If you are having those problems with sweeping turns imagine the problem with tighter courses.


“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”

Abe Lincoln
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: dart4forte] #2235537
01/16/17 07:50 PM
01/16/17 07:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Originally Posted By dart4forte
Originally Posted By MuuMuu101
Well, I took the Dart to it's first autocross event. The course was nothing complex and had a lot of sweeping turns and large straight aways. The average runs were in the low 50 second range. There were good and bads to today.

Good:
-The commute to the autocross event (26 miles) and back was very trouble free. The car loved to cruise at 2000 rpm.
-The car is a blast to drive and there's so much potential in the car (or should I say myself).
-I had fun racing and hanging out with old friends.
-My number for the year is 408. wink

Bad:
-The exhaust drone is absolutely, stupidly unbearable. The 30 min drive back home was not pleasant what so ever.
-The car is cold-blooded. It never really likes to start going until the water temps are about 150F. If I try driving the car before that, odds are it will probably stall.
-Out of 2 of my 4 runs, the car stalled on the first corner under light throttle causing me to roll off course and DNF. Very weird. It would take quite a bit of cranking to start it up again. I would exit the corner and bam, the car shut off. Water temps was 180F during my runs.
-I got last because the car stalled twice.
-The car got 6.7 mpg after my first fill up. I need to verify my odometer is accurate. Granted that was about 95% street driving.

Overall, I got in last place. My goal for the day was just to get a feel for the car and get a sub-60 second run which I accomplished. I wish the car hadn't stalled on me the other two runs, otherwise I think I could have got it down to 56 seconds with my skillset. It definitely felt like it could take more speeds in the corners; however, since I'm tire and experience limited, I decided not to push it.


Takes awhile to sort out a new build. Doesn't sound like a bad day. Yes, that drone would drive me insane. Consider the amount of time on the track verses on the street deciding on an exhaust change. Do you have carpet in the car? If not consider a coating like Rhino Linner or Raptor. Throw some deadening on top of that.

As far as stalling you may want to look at fuel delivery. What size line are you running, any restrictions, fuel bowl level etc. If you are having those problems with sweeping turns imagine the problem with tighter courses.


It wasn't that bad of a day.

For the exhaust, I was probably just going to get an exhaust shop weld in some resonators. The car has no sound deadening but the carpet.

Maybe sweep wasn't the right word to use when I was writing this. It was a slow speed, tighter corner. The reason why I say sweep is that the turn was slightly uphill and off-cambered.

I'd have to check the lines and carb soon.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2238588
01/21/17 07:34 PM
01/21/17 07:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

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Posts: 12,375
SoCal
I took the Dart to the exhaust shop today. He was impressed with the TTI setup, but it's super tight. There are small bends here and there making it difficult to fit a resonator anywhere. There are paper thin sections where the exhaust may hit on the torsion bar and idler arm areas. The only thing he could recommend was replace the 14" Dynomax Ultraflows for an 18" muffler. Thinking about it, it may work out. The longer muffler should dampen the exhaust (tad quieter) and reduce heat (in the muffler). He quoted me $450 for a set of Magnaflows and labor.

TTI Exhaust.jpg
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2238632
01/21/17 08:54 PM
01/21/17 08:54 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
lilcuda Offline
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Northern California
Regarding your stalling - you need to figure out if it is flooding or running out of fuel. Is it a Holley? I haven't read the whole thread. If it is, it may be sloshing fuel out of the bowl vent tubes under high g loads, flooding the car. If you can get it to do it and pull a plug right away, that might give you a clue. The mileage issue may indicate that it's really rich. Check the float level as a start.


'67 is an abbreviation of 1967
67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet
They are not interchangeable.
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: lilcuda] #2238755
01/22/17 12:15 AM
01/22/17 12:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Originally Posted By lilcuda
Regarding your stalling - you need to figure out if it is flooding or running out of fuel. Is it a Holley? I haven't read the whole thread. If it is, it may be sloshing fuel out of the bowl vent tubes under high g loads, flooding the car. If you can get it to do it and pull a plug right away, that might give you a clue. The mileage issue may indicate that it's really rich. Check the float level as a start.


It's a Holley. My research is showing my float bowls may be set a little too high. I'm running at about 7-8 psi fuel pressure, my research have been saying 6 psi is optimal. I may also fiddle with my choke a little.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2238857
01/22/17 03:12 AM
01/22/17 03:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,363
Iowa
burdar Offline
Owen's Dad
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Iowa
A longer muffler will definately quiet it down. I'm surprised there isn't room for some bullet mufflers just in front of the bumper. You can buy Magnaflows online and install them yourself for a lot less money. It's just a matter of cutting off the pipe and slipping the new mufflers on. Not very fun on your back but still easily done.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2238912
01/22/17 11:28 AM
01/22/17 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,128
New Mexico
UCUDANT Offline
Troll Hunter
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New Mexico
I'm glad you're back up and running, I hope you get your fuel issue sorted soon. Enjoy it. Bob

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2242174
01/27/17 11:29 AM
01/27/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,128
Mesa, Arizona
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dart4forte Offline
I Live Here
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Originally Posted By MuuMuu101
I took the Dart to the exhaust shop today. He was impressed with the TTI setup, but it's super tight. There are small bends here and there making it difficult to fit a resonator anywhere. There are paper thin sections where the exhaust may hit on the torsion bar and idler arm areas. The only thing he could recommend was replace the 14" Dynomax Ultraflows for an 18" muffler. Thinking about it, it may work out. The longer muffler should dampen the exhaust (tad quieter) and reduce heat (in the muffler). He quoted me $450 for a set of Magnaflows and labor.


Which muffler came with the TTI setup?


“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”

Abe Lincoln
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: dart4forte] #2242624
01/28/17 02:04 AM
01/28/17 02:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Originally Posted By dart4forte
Originally Posted By MuuMuu101
I took the Dart to the exhaust shop today. He was impressed with the TTI setup, but it's super tight. There are small bends here and there making it difficult to fit a resonator anywhere. There are paper thin sections where the exhaust may hit on the torsion bar and idler arm areas. The only thing he could recommend was replace the 14" Dynomax Ultraflows for an 18" muffler. Thinking about it, it may work out. The longer muffler should dampen the exhaust (tad quieter) and reduce heat (in the muffler). He quoted me $450 for a set of Magnaflows and labor.


Which muffler came with the TTI setup?


14" long Dynomax Super Turbos. They don't sound bad at all when you're out of the drone range. I'm installing 18" Magnaflows.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2243117
01/28/17 11:28 PM
01/28/17 11:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
So, I went to the exhaust shop today to install some Magnaflow mufflers. They're 4" longer than the Dynomax and are straight through in design so it should flow a little better. After we got the exhaust installed, I went and drove around the area. Unfortunately, all of the major freeways around here are in limbo due to construction so I didn't get to drive it for very long at 70 mph. Maybe a mile or two. I did drive it quite a bit on the streets.

Off the bat, idle and the overall exhaust tone is quieter. It's not so in your face and aggressive as the Dynomax (good and bad). I also kind of figured this would happen, but the drone is only partially gone. Now, it's only from 1800-2200 RPM and 2000 RPM still sucks. So, from an exhaust point of view, the only thing that I can think of that would help is the installing long tube headers instead of shorties. So, next I'll probably install some sound deadening in the car.

I was smelling some gas toward the rear of the car and found out that the rubber seal on my gas cap is cracked so I need a new one. I was thinking about getting a locking gas cap this time. There's no leaks, so that's good.

Exhaust Work.jpgDynomax vs. Magnaflow.jpgMagnaflow Straight Through.jpgTTI Exhaust (Magnaflow).jpg
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2252777
02/13/17 02:30 AM
02/13/17 02:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
So, I had some time to address some of the fuel related issues this week. First off, I ordered that locking gas cap and installed it. The seal is astronomically more thick than my old one and the smell of gas is gone. So, hopefully that means a little less fuel spilled and some more mpgs.

Second, I've been looking at Youtube videos on how to address my cold start problem. The first issue I noticed was that my fuel pressure is generally around 7-8 psi. Holley carbs like to run around 6 psi. So, I took the air cleaner assembly off and checked my float levels. Turned the key twice with 2 second intervals (each time), removed the float plug, shook the car, and fuel was gushing out. I lowered the fuel pressure on the regulator down to 6-6.5 psi and reconducted the float check and all was good. Just a little was trickling down so I didn't readjust my float levels. We'll see how it performs.

While I had my air cleaner off, I noticed something. I always thought I had an electric choke. Apparently I have a mechanical choke. The problem is that the shop forgot to install a lever for my manual choke. So, on start up, the throttle blades are all the way open. Hence why I can't start this car with repeated results. So, I need to install a cable sometime soon.

I also took the car on the freeway and it seems with the adjusted fuel pressure the car is running a little better. Now that I got to play with the speed, the drone is still unbearable at 2000 RPM, but when I'm in 5th I'm cruising at 2500 RPM at 75 mph which isn't all that terrible of an experience. That being said, I'm still going to order some sound deadening to quiet the cabin a little bit from the road noise, electric fuel pump, and exhaust.

Locking Gas Cap.jpgCarb.jpg
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2253112
02/13/17 07:55 PM
02/13/17 07:55 PM
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Posts: 4,064
Boca Raton, Florida
jpilone Offline
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Always a chore doing the fine tuning and little details.. I can't wait to get into this stage myself!!


-Jarrod Pilone
'70 Plymouth RR Convertible with amazing custom paint(Tribute/Recreation/Whateveryouwannacallit)
My Project Thread
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2253329
02/14/17 01:40 AM
02/14/17 01:40 AM
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Posts: 701
Northern California
lilcuda Offline
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A properly tuned Holley shouldn't need a choke in Southern California. One good pump of the pedal to about halfway, then crank it and it should fire right up. If not, something isn't right.


'67 is an abbreviation of 1967
67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet
They are not interchangeable.
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: lilcuda] #2253378
02/14/17 03:51 AM
02/14/17 03:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

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Originally Posted By jpilone
Always a chore doing the fine tuning and little details.. I can't wait to get into this stage myself!!


Yeah, it's a little bit of a hassle, but the nice thing is that it's still driveable. So, if I'm having an off day I can just take it for a ride around the neighborhood.

Originally Posted By lilcuda
A properly tuned Holley shouldn't need a choke in Southern California. One good pump of the pedal to about halfway, then crank it and it should fire right up. If not, something isn't right.


At this point, I don't know. I hear something new from someone new every day. I've tried two pumps, I've tried one pump, I've tried pushing the throttle halfway and backing it off (works best). There's no consistency. It may very well be me, but I'm stumped.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: lilcuda] #2253720
02/14/17 09:52 PM
02/14/17 09:52 PM
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Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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Originally Posted By lilcuda
A properly tuned Holley shouldn't need a choke in Southern California. One good pump of the pedal to about halfway, then crank it and it should fire right up. If not, something isn't right.


Agreed. My Warlock has an Edelbrock carb with no choke and I have started it in below freezing temperatures. It's grumpy, sure, but it will start.


MuuMuu, what ignition is in the car?


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2253743
02/14/17 10:39 PM
02/14/17 10:39 PM
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JERSEY
RJS Offline
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If I read what you wrote correctly you still need to check those floats. I think you tested them with the car off and that isn't the way to go. Get car running and up to temperature. Take out front site plug and set so fuel is just under hole, or takes a slight rocking to spill. Do the same with rear but that one can be a tad higher but only to the point of just about trickling out. Now go on to the 4 corner idle screws with a vacuum gauge hooked up to full vacuum. Start car and block wheels, put car in gear and adjust at rear of carb to achieve the highest steadiest vacuum per corner. After that see if you have to lower idle by adjusting idle screw.
Ron

Last edited by RJS; 02/14/17 10:40 PM.
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2253902
02/15/17 02:43 AM
02/15/17 02:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By lilcuda
A properly tuned Holley shouldn't need a choke in Southern California. One good pump of the pedal to about halfway, then crank it and it should fire right up. If not, something isn't right.


Agreed. My Warlock has an Edelbrock carb with no choke and I have started it in below freezing temperatures. It's grumpy, sure, but it will start.


MuuMuu, what ignition is in the car?


If the choke isn't the problem then maybe it's just me. I have an MSD Ready-2-Run.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: RJS] #2253904
02/15/17 02:46 AM
02/15/17 02:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline OP
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Originally Posted By RJS
If I read what you wrote correctly you still need to check those floats. I think you tested them with the car off and that isn't the way to go. Get car running and up to temperature. Take out front site plug and set so fuel is just under hole, or takes a slight rocking to spill. Do the same with rear but that one can be a tad higher but only to the point of just about trickling out. Now go on to the 4 corner idle screws with a vacuum gauge hooked up to full vacuum. Start car and block wheels, put car in gear and adjust at rear of carb to achieve the highest steadiest vacuum per corner. After that see if you have to lower idle by adjusting idle screw.
Ron


Interesting. Holley's instructional video said that the engine shouldn't be running when using an electric fuel pump. I did recheck the floats per their video after I adjusted the fuel pressure. I don't have a vacuum gauge right now so I can't really do the entire process at the moment.

Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: MuuMuu101] #2253975
02/15/17 12:30 PM
02/15/17 12:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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Texas
Originally Posted By MuuMuu101
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By lilcuda
A properly tuned Holley shouldn't need a choke in Southern California. One good pump of the pedal to about halfway, then crank it and it should fire right up. If not, something isn't right.


Agreed. My Warlock has an Edelbrock carb with no choke and I have started it in below freezing temperatures. It's grumpy, sure, but it will start.


MuuMuu, what ignition is in the car?


If the choke isn't the problem then maybe it's just me. I have an MSD Ready-2-Run.


Stock ignition box?


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: MuuMuu's 68 Dart... It's a Learning Process... [Re: RJS] #2254404
02/16/17 01:46 AM
02/16/17 01:46 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
lilcuda Offline
super stock
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Posts: 701
Northern California
Originally Posted By RJS
If I read what you wrote correctly you still need to check those floats. I think you tested them with the car off and that isn't the way to go. Get car running and up to temperature. Take out front site plug and set so fuel is just under hole, or takes a slight rocking to spill. Do the same with rear but that one can be a tad higher but only to the point of just about trickling out. Now go on to the 4 corner idle screws with a vacuum gauge hooked up to full vacuum. Start car and block wheels, put car in gear and adjust at rear of carb to achieve the highest steadiest vacuum per corner. After that see if you have to lower idle by adjusting idle screw.
Ron


The car has a 5 speed, so it can't be in gear with the wheels blocked...


'67 is an abbreviation of 1967
67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet
They are not interchangeable.
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