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How much is too much hard block #2238679
01/21/17 10:11 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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400 block 511. Whats the max amount you can have and keep it cool on the street?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238700
01/21/17 10:41 PM
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The head bolt Casting boss will block your flow if you go to hi. I like at least a 1/2 inch below those boss' in the water jackets.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238701
01/21/17 10:54 PM
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We fill to the bottom of the core plugs


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238703
01/21/17 10:57 PM
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But yes keeping it cool is a trick, I have a 528 on the street in a 71 Barracuda, it has a new large ali radiator with twin fans and I fitted a engine oil cooler but on a hot day on the highway it gets too hot.


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238719
01/21/17 11:26 PM
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I don't recommend using it down
Especially if all the machine work is done twocents work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2238721
01/21/17 11:26 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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Ok, the shop that filled the block said it was above the soft plugs. They were not kidding, its way above the s plugs. I can stick my finger in the cooling jacket at the deck and touch the filler. 2 -3" below deck.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238731
01/21/17 11:34 PM
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We have a high fill on the 440 block in the Barnyard Viper. Filled to the bottom of the water pump holes. We run an oil cooler, but still kills the oil on occasion. The water temp never gets over 200.

Dodge-cruise.jpg

"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: MoparBilly] #2238749
01/22/17 12:06 AM
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Looks like i will have to keep an eye on oil temp.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238754
01/22/17 12:14 AM
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hard block fill is not the mod you really want to do to a street engine. i did it to an earlier build & even with a electric water pump the oil temp would soar when idling in the prestage queue. i ended up fitting an accessory oil cooler but once that motor went south i didn't bother repeating that mod. i use a girdle on my current stock block engine, that seems to be a better option imo.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: rebel] #2238780
01/22/17 12:45 AM
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I understand. My small block had a short fill and it was street driven often. Ran 195-200 water temp and oil temp was 230-240 in 75* weather.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238784
01/22/17 12:52 AM
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Water temp will not be an issue..Oil temp will. Less water to cool so those temps will or should not get really high. Oil temps will be the issue


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238800
01/22/17 01:11 AM
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You need an 8 quart oil pan and a QUALITY oil.


That means an oil you probably can walk into a store and buy.


Not a fan of engine oil coolers.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: madscientist] #2238811
01/22/17 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted By madscientist


Not a fan of engine oil coolers.


Please explain.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238825
01/22/17 02:05 AM
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Oil coolers are fine if the pump, and lines to the cooler, are sized appropriately. Lots of OEM applications have them, especially the heavier duty engines. Combustion heat has to go places, and with a filled block it heads to the oil.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238833
01/22/17 02:29 AM
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The thing with the truck was, an old race engine got converted to street duty. Boone would complain about killing the oil on Drag Week, saying that when it ran over 240 oil temp for a period of time, it would start to burn it, and then oil pressure would drop fifteen to twenty lbs.

He always ran Valvoline VR-1 50wt. in it.

When I got the truck down here in Phoenix, I added a plate cooler that was 2 inches longer than the previous one, and switched to Lucas Classic 20-50wt.

Even though I have seen oil temps in the 240-250 range, I've never experienced pressure drop (solid 65lbs.) or burning, so I'm going to chalk it up to better oil choice.

It's not ideal, but sometimes you just use what you have.

59k - Copy.JPG

"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238846
01/22/17 02:48 AM
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I would find a different block and start over.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2238855
01/22/17 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted By ccdave
I would find a different block and start over.


Yeah,
But I like driving them more than I like working on them, and as long as the old girl still slams me back in the seat, I'll keep beating on it!

It's a 440 source flat-top 4.25 stroke kit. topped with the old Edelbrock RPM heads/Isky ductile rockers that I've used since '99. Not once piece on that engine owes us a darn thing!

barn motor.jpg

"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2238986
01/22/17 01:55 PM
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As said, water temp won't be the problem. Oil temp will. Personally, I wouldn't do it on a street application. If you decide to do it, I wouldn't go over a half fill - and count on using an oil cooler. On the plus side, todays lubes ( especially synthetics ) can handle ( and are designed to run at ) much higher temps than in the past. Running oil temps in the 250 range are not uncommon.


Fastest 300
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Crizila] #2239019
01/22/17 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted By Crizila
As said, water temp won't be the problem. Oil temp will. Personally, I wouldn't do it on a street application. If you decide to do it, I wouldn't go over a half fill - and count on using an oil cooler. On the plus side, todays lubes ( especially synthetics ) can handle ( and are designed to run at ) much higher temps than in the past. Running oil temps in the 250 range are not uncommon.





Its already done. No turning back on that block now.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239021
01/22/17 02:56 PM
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I can only share my small block experience, but I bucked most of what is written in this thread.

1) I filled the block AFTER it was machined... checking the bore before and after it didn't move hardly SQUAT...

2) I never ran an oil cooler until I put a diaper on the car. Before that it never had any issue on the street. But once I put the diaper on it, the heat had no where to escape from the pan.

Mine is filled up pretty high (well above the freeze plugs in the side of the block... on a small block you almost have no choice but to do this because they are so low.) I can put my finger through the deck and touch the top of the fill, so it's up pretty high.

I feel like with everything, there is a lot of people perpetuating old wives tales from things they've heard.

Worst case it MIGHT need an oil cooler.... and at the absolute worst it MIGHT need to have the hone touched up. Hardly reason to throw the block away and start over...

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239061
01/22/17 03:43 PM
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Lots of opinions on this topic

Options:

1. Run it on the street with an oil cooler and HOPE for the best or SHOULD be ok.

2. Run it at the track only and not worry about oil temps.

3. Disassemble the block with all of your new un damaged parts, sell your filled and prepped
block on Craigslist, find a block with decent cylinders and remove the words HOPE and
SHOULD....

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239068
01/22/17 03:55 PM
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well, unless I find a box full of money and I mean a lot of money or hit the lottery, that's not happening. I will run it as is and be the guinea pig. now I did call brad penn and amsoil awhile back when I had high oil temps in the small block. brad penn told me their oil was good to 360* and amsoil was good to 400+. so, I will keep amsoil in it and we will see just happens. just not sure what to expect with the cam break in, its gonna get hot.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dizuster] #2239070
01/22/17 03:56 PM
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i'm with you. I will run it without a cooler if possible. Thanks guys

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239071
01/22/17 03:57 PM
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Been running ours for almost 10 years .. Lots of street and lots of track time. Oil cooler yes, never have I had a problem with oil or over heating the oil. Last year the wife and I decide to drive to New York .. It made it .. Changed the oil just because and drove it home .. I will admit it was not the best riding car to take but tons of thumbs up was worth it ..

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dizuster] #2239074
01/22/17 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By dizuster
I can only share my small block experience, but I bucked most of what is written in this thread.

1) I filled the block AFTER it was machined... checking the bore before and after it didn't move hardly SQUAT...

2) I never ran an oil cooler until I put a diaper on the car. Before that it never had any issue on the street. But once I put the diaper on it, the heat had no where to escape from the pan.

Mine is filled up pretty high (well above the freeze plugs in the side of the block... on a small block you almost have no choice but to do this because they are so low.) I can put my finger through the deck and touch the top of the fill, so it's up pretty high.

I feel like with everything, there is a lot of people perpetuating old wives tales from things they've heard.

Worst case it MIGHT need an oil cooler.... and at the absolute worst it MIGHT need to have the hone touched up. Hardly reason to throw the block away and start over...
My fill ( pics) on a 408 small block. Lost about 2 gallons of coolant. Water temp never sees over 180. Oil temp ( no cooler and 8 qt pan using 7 qts of oil - Royal Purple full synthetic race oil) seems to line out at around 220. That is about 3/4 hour driving on the street in 75 degree ambient temp. I believe that number would climb in hotter weather and for a longer period of driving time. Guess on that part, but rest not an old wives tale. Had my block machined after the fill. Have no idea how much the bores distort with heat and wasn't a high priority with the build anyway. It was a race only build and trying to get a stock block to live at 700HP range was the goal.

block fill.jpgblockfill2.jpg

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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: 70dusterjohn] #2239075
01/22/17 04:02 PM
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Cool! good to hear. Ill see how it goes without the cooler first summer. From the opinions looks like I have too much fill for comfortable street driving.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239084
01/22/17 04:13 PM
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The thing with hard block is your trying to
stabilize the center area of the bores.. with
a short fill your really not doing anything
and IMO is a waste and just added weight.. so
if you fill high enough to do what its intended
to do then you run into the hot oil issue and IMO
a oil cooler is needed.. even then the oil still
gets fairly warm.. and as in any time the oil gets
heated up it gets thinner(viscosity) and pressure
gets lower... I have had a engine with it on the
streets and it did get the oil hot.. so I dont add
it to any street car engine... JMO.. but since its
already done use a good synthetic oil and a cooler
wave

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239090
01/22/17 04:16 PM
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Two things I've heard from respected sources on oil temps, petroleum based oils will start to change molecure structure, go bad, close to 300F and be destroying itself at 325F.
Molil 1 synthetics oils are supoose to be good to 500F before being hurt shruggy
On the blocks with fill I have seen a filled 340 block prepared by Greg Lunatic ( devil) on the engine dyno at Pettis performance have 180F on the outside of the block at or below the fill line and 130 F above the fill line using a hand held infra red temp gun work I had freshen it for the owners and built them a complete new R1 block non filled spare motor, guess which one made the most power whistling


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2239094
01/22/17 04:18 PM
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ok Mike, looks like a oil cooler is in my future. not gonna use one right away as I would like to see where the oil temps are gonna go. can anyone suggest a good oil cooler?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239099
01/22/17 04:23 PM
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I'm not a big E85 guy as I went straight to alcohol but if I had a high performance street strip car I would be running E85. That would probably help your cooling issues too.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239103
01/22/17 04:26 PM
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Since option 1 is your choice then I hope the engine will be ok and the engine should run fine👍👍👍👍👍👍

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239136
01/22/17 04:58 PM
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FWIW our filled block has been together and in the car since 2001 and never had any issues. I run an oil cooler for insurance, never have seen oil temps over 230-240 and that is only after sustained highway jaunts. Car make 750+ HP fwiw as well and we never ran it without the cooler either. Saw no need wanted it just to make sure.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239152
01/22/17 05:10 PM
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E85 might be an option. Ill know better what needs to be done once its up and running.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: pittsburghracer] #2239157
01/22/17 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
I'm not a big E85 guy as I went straight to alcohol but if I had a high performance street strip car I would be running E85. That would probably help your cooling issues too.


Cooling the water isnt a issue.. even with
E-85 the cyl and head temps will be the same
if your burning good and that transfers over
to the oil in the most part
wave

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Jeremiah] #2239248
01/22/17 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted By Jeremiah
Originally Posted By madscientist


Not a fan of engine oil coolers.


Please explain.



Because most guys run a cooler that is too small, they use crap fittings and hose a mile long and, I'd bet very few here have ever checked the pressure drop across an oil cooler. I have. Unless it's very expensive, it's horrible.



8 quarts in the pan and a QUALITY oil and forget it.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239267
01/22/17 06:54 PM
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We have a 12 qt pan, with diaper and I have a lot of money over 500 in the cooler and lines. It's not cheap to do it the right way.. I run two pressure gauges in the car one pre cooler one after .. Just to keep an eye on it. On 90 plus days I see maybe 15 lbs drop..

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: madscientist] #2239271
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Doug my engine machinist forbid me to fill my 512 block even tho it was for strip only, told me the wall thickness is plenty suffiecent and that filling will change the temp at the lower end of the bore to cause piston scuffing and different wear charistics, now that said I did a half fill on my strip only 408 small block and have noticed that the oil pressure would drop quite a bit the more I ran it and had me concerned during round robin passes at the end of the class run's, is it because of the excess temp in the oil? don't know but that would make sense to me,,oh and by the way I ran Brad Penn 20W50 semi synthetic, proof will be in the teardown and freshen-up. wave


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dartman366] #2239360
01/22/17 09:13 PM
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I ran a short fill in my 408 and the pistons were scuffed bad both times I tore it down. after a freeway ride the pressure would drop quite a bit.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239372
01/22/17 09:27 PM
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one thing good about this issue is the thin cylinder shouldn't move around much, preventing any cracks. maybe I could add a power adder and put the boost right to it. with the aluminum caps I would think it should be a solid piece.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239383
01/22/17 09:47 PM
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted By mopar dave
one thing good about this issue is the thin cylinder shouldn't move around much, preventing any cracks. maybe I could add a power adder and put the boost right to it. with the aluminum caps I would think it should be a solid piece.


JMO... but the filler shrinks a bit so dont think you
wont crack a cyl.. I did it twice on the same cyl on
the same block.. but it wasnt a tall fill.. so I dont
think it was up where you need to help stiffen the cyl
walls
EDIT
Thats why some dont see any change in the bore
because it shrinks back a bit and doesnt PUSH
on the walls
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/22/17 09:50 PM.
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239393
01/22/17 09:56 PM
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I'm in the process of removing Hardblock from an overfilled 400. Total pain in the [censored]. I'd never fill a street motor... Absolutely no benefits and if you're cracking blocks on the street something else is wrong.


Follow my G3 Hemi Barracuda build on Youtube
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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: A39Coronet] #2239410
01/22/17 10:28 PM
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popcorn

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: A39Coronet] #2239454
01/22/17 11:24 PM
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MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By A39Coronet
I'm in the process of removing Hardblock from an overfilled 400. Total pain in the [censored]. I'd never fill a street motor... Absolutely no benefits and if you're cracking blocks on the street something else is wrong.


Good luck getting that out... major PITA
wave

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Al_Alguire] #2239497
01/23/17 12:12 AM
01/23/17 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
FWIW our filled block has been together and in the car since 2001 and never had any issues. I run an oil cooler for insurance, never have seen oil temps over 230-240 and that is only after sustained highway jaunts. Car make 750+ HP fwiw as well and we never ran it without the cooler either. Saw no need wanted it just to make sure.


Spot on AL. This is exactly where I am with my street 528 Cuda, as you say sustained highway use get the temp up. I often wonder how many people are out there without a oil temp gauge ??

Dave If you don't run a cooler with all that fill your first 1/2 hour drive will see 300 on the oil temp.


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239501
01/23/17 12:16 AM
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Dizuster runs a generic small oil cooler on his turbo small block, half fill. Stays cool no issues since install. Plenty of street miles. Many factory Chevy high performance and truck motors run them from the factory. It's not rocket science.
Doug

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239509
01/23/17 12:22 AM
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Does the Hard Block indeed shrink and seperare from the cylinder walls after a few heat cycles as posted earlier? The manufacturers I looked at claim it does not?????

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239549
01/23/17 01:04 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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I have heard that both ways. It must depend on the brand of filler you use?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2239553
01/23/17 01:07 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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I have a few gauges in the car. oil and trans temp are just a couple. Once I get it on the road I will let ya know what the temps go to before I add the cooler. Can I use a B&M supercooler for oil cooler?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239625
01/23/17 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
I have a few gauges in the car. oil and trans temp are just a couple. Once I get it on the road I will let ya know what the temps go to before I add the cooler. Can I use a B&M supercooler for oil cooler?


Look at a Hayden oil cooler... a trans cooler
wont flow enough... the diameter isnt big enough..
the one block I bought had a crack in a cyl.. I was
gonna just sleeve the one cyl but when I got around
to it I busted that cyl out to see it was a filled
block... the fill did shrink on it... dont know what
brand it was filled with.. it wasnt much but it sure
wasnt stopping a wall from cracking
wave

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239630
01/23/17 02:29 AM
01/23/17 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted By ccdave
Does the Hard Block indeed shrink and seperare from the cylinder walls after a few heat cycles as posted earlier? The manufacturers I looked at claim it does not?????
Ya, they all claim there's doesn't shrink. shruggy I'd like to see proof. My machinist claims they don't shrink. True on the oil cooler thing "it aint rocket science". Many tow packages include them - most police package cars have them. Don't know how well these factory engineered packages would work under our type of racing conditions though. Pressure drop is definitely a consideration. FWIW, oil pressure on fire up @ idle with my 408 = 70psi. At 180 oil temp @ idle = 35psi. At 220 oil temp = 25psi.(10W30 synthetic).


Fastest 300
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Crizila] #2239635
01/23/17 02:38 AM
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All cements based fillers shrink shruggy I've used Moroso block filler once and it shrank away from one freeze plug after it pushed it out enough to need replacing shruggy
I've heard that "Hard Block" brand filler is a epoxy filler and doesn't need to cure 30 days and it doesn't shrink also confused I also heard it does expand and shrink shruggy I haven't used it so I don't know about it either way shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Cab_Burge] #2239636
01/23/17 02:42 AM
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Over my 40 plus years of racing I wonder how much I've saved by not buying concrete to fill my blocks. LOL


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Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239647
01/23/17 03:17 AM
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Hard Block is magnetic. It has a percentage of cast iron in it to help it expand and contract as the block warms and cools.

I have heard some crazy sounds the 1st few runs on a fresh fill. Never had a problem with a bore

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Cab_Burge] #2239731
01/23/17 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
All cements based fillers shrink shruggy I've used Moroso block filler once and it shrank away from one freeze plug after it pushed it out enough to need replacing shruggy
I've heard that "Hard Block" brand filler is a epoxy filler and doesn't need to cure 30 days and it doesn't shrink also confused I also heard it does expand and shrink shruggy I haven't used it so I don't know about it either way shruggy
Moroso is the brand I used . Your scaring me !!!! eek eek wave


Fastest 300
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Crizila] #2239765
01/23/17 01:50 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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Hard block is whats in my block. My machinest recommended it, said it wouldn't shrink. guess ill find out.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dizuster] #2242448
01/27/17 08:40 PM
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maximum entropy Offline
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Originally Posted By dizuster

1) I filled the block AFTER it was machined... checking the bore before and after it didn't move hardly SQUAT...



I feel like with everything, there is a lot of people perpetuating old wives tales from things they've heard.


i have done this as well... on a tall deck big block, tall fill (bottom of the water pump holes). NO DIFFERENCE in the before and after measurements. at all. that engine lives on as we speak.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: maximum entropy] #2242655
01/28/17 03:23 AM
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good to hear positive experiences. hope to have same

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324505
06/21/17 01:29 AM
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Any updates on street temps?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Dart451] #2324530
06/21/17 03:08 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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Not yet. Just installing 511 in the car now. Gonna run without a cooler to start. Will add cooler later.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324535
06/21/17 03:21 AM
06/21/17 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
Not yet. Just installing 511 in the car now. Gonna run without a cooler to start. Will add cooler later.


FWIW, I talked to Jason Pettis who builds/tunes some of the baddest cars around and he said "Good luck keeping the oil cool on the street even w/a cooler"..........1/2 fill maybe but full in his experience is hard to do if not impossible........ thumbs

Last edited by Thumperdart; 06/21/17 03:24 AM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Thumperdart] #2324567
06/21/17 09:20 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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I dont doubt that a bit. My sb was short filled and oil always ran hot. Good oil like amsoil is good to 380* before it starts to break down. Will need a oil cooler and may switch over to E85 if i need to.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324663
06/21/17 12:47 PM
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I like dependable simplicity..........plus I drive mine more than most at this power level n/a and over heating weather oil or water is a no-no in my book.......... coffee

Last edited by Thumperdart; 06/21/17 01:23 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324674
06/21/17 01:07 PM
06/21/17 01:07 PM
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On a low deck block, filling to the bottom of the water pump hole can often result in water flow problems through the block, since at that height the fill can get to the bottom of the head bolt bosses....... Which can restrict/block the coolant from reaching certain areas of the block.

On an RB block, that same level of fill would have the bolt bosses 3/4" farther away from the filler.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: fast68plymouth] #2324699
06/21/17 01:40 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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its filled 3" below the deck. could have some issues.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324705
06/21/17 01:50 PM
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I only repeated what I was told and personally would never add that weight to the ft. end of the car but that's me........stock 400 block here, 15 years of street/strip bashing, stock 413 off-set ground crank and stock caps. In the 9's for years and ZERO issues.............kinda like the 8 3/4 that went many years....... thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324721
06/21/17 02:14 PM
06/21/17 02:14 PM
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69 lawndart Offline
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I ran a filled 420 small block on drag week 6 times. Changed oil (Val 20W-50 racing) mid week and let it run. I have a oil cooler with -12 lines. Oil temp runs 205 to 210 with the oil temp sender in the oil pan. Interesting thing happened to me on one of the trips in the middle of the week I thought my valve springs were getting week so I changed them at the track to a new set, and the oil temp increased by 15 to 20 deg's. The old springs were a set of the polished ones, chrome looking springs. That block is now being used in the 468 in the Cuda drove it last weekend to KC 80+ deg air temp, and the oil temp ran 210 to 215, water temp was 185.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324740
06/21/17 02:45 PM
06/21/17 02:45 PM
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That's a great little tidbit of info about the polished springs.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: 69 lawndart] #2324745
06/21/17 02:49 PM
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Sterling Goins(owner of Air Flow Research) told me years ago that the valve springs make up a bunch of the heat in oil, especially on roundy round race motors shruggy
More pressure, more heat shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324775
06/21/17 03:26 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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what size oil cooler do ya think it would take to keep temps in check? fan?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324791
06/21/17 04:02 PM
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Clanton Offline
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
what size oil cooler do ya think it would take to keep temps in check? fan?
after the cost of all that you could just put your current cooler in a water tank circulated with coolent from the heater tubes from the water pump,A tank 1" bigger than the cooler on all sides.

Last edited by Clanton; 06/21/17 04:09 PM.

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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324792
06/21/17 04:06 PM
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I have a 4 pass on mine.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: 69 lawndart] #2324973
06/21/17 11:08 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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10 row? 15 row? been looking at the coolers with fans on them.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Clanton] #2324976
06/21/17 11:10 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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i currently dont have any oil cooler.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324979
06/21/17 11:20 PM
06/21/17 11:20 PM
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Clanton Offline
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
i currently dont have any oil cooler.
To save a few bucks you could get 1 off a motorcycle but cooling with water can be better than in air.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Clanton] #2325074
06/22/17 03:09 AM
06/22/17 03:09 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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Where do ya find the water to air oil coolers at. Iv never seen one.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2325082
06/22/17 03:43 AM
06/22/17 03:43 AM
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Most stock radiators have them for the tranny to help warm them up work grin scope up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Cab_Burge] #2325119
06/22/17 08:56 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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Think im gonna have a tough time cooling the coolant. Not sure i would want it to do double duty with both oil and coolant.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2325138
06/22/17 10:51 AM
06/22/17 10:51 AM
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The engine has the same BTU you just use 2 ways to cool it.


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http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Clanton] #2325290
06/22/17 03:54 PM
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yeah,but wouldnt it over tax the cooling system trying to cool the oil and coolant with the same radiator?

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