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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239393
01/22/17 09:56 PM
01/22/17 09:56 PM
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A39Coronet Offline
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I'm in the process of removing Hardblock from an overfilled 400. Total pain in the [censored]. I'd never fill a street motor... Absolutely no benefits and if you're cracking blocks on the street something else is wrong.


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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: A39Coronet] #2239410
01/22/17 10:28 PM
01/22/17 10:28 PM
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Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave Offline
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popcorn

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: A39Coronet] #2239454
01/22/17 11:24 PM
01/22/17 11:24 PM
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Romeo MI
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Originally Posted By A39Coronet
I'm in the process of removing Hardblock from an overfilled 400. Total pain in the [censored]. I'd never fill a street motor... Absolutely no benefits and if you're cracking blocks on the street something else is wrong.


Good luck getting that out... major PITA
wave

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Al_Alguire] #2239497
01/23/17 12:12 AM
01/23/17 12:12 AM
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Australia
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ozymaxwedge Offline
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
FWIW our filled block has been together and in the car since 2001 and never had any issues. I run an oil cooler for insurance, never have seen oil temps over 230-240 and that is only after sustained highway jaunts. Car make 750+ HP fwiw as well and we never ran it without the cooler either. Saw no need wanted it just to make sure.


Spot on AL. This is exactly where I am with my street 528 Cuda, as you say sustained highway use get the temp up. I often wonder how many people are out there without a oil temp gauge ??

Dave If you don't run a cooler with all that fill your first 1/2 hour drive will see 300 on the oil temp.


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239501
01/23/17 12:16 AM
01/23/17 12:16 AM
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MI, usa
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Dizuster runs a generic small oil cooler on his turbo small block, half fill. Stays cool no issues since install. Plenty of street miles. Many factory Chevy high performance and truck motors run them from the factory. It's not rocket science.
Doug

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239509
01/23/17 12:22 AM
01/23/17 12:22 AM
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Mopar Country, Mi
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Does the Hard Block indeed shrink and seperare from the cylinder walls after a few heat cycles as posted earlier? The manufacturers I looked at claim it does not?????

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239549
01/23/17 01:04 AM
01/23/17 01:04 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I have heard that both ways. It must depend on the brand of filler you use?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2239553
01/23/17 01:07 AM
01/23/17 01:07 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I have a few gauges in the car. oil and trans temp are just a couple. Once I get it on the road I will let ya know what the temps go to before I add the cooler. Can I use a B&M supercooler for oil cooler?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239625
01/23/17 02:16 AM
01/23/17 02:16 AM
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Romeo MI
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
I have a few gauges in the car. oil and trans temp are just a couple. Once I get it on the road I will let ya know what the temps go to before I add the cooler. Can I use a B&M supercooler for oil cooler?


Look at a Hayden oil cooler... a trans cooler
wont flow enough... the diameter isnt big enough..
the one block I bought had a crack in a cyl.. I was
gonna just sleeve the one cyl but when I got around
to it I busted that cyl out to see it was a filled
block... the fill did shrink on it... dont know what
brand it was filled with.. it wasnt much but it sure
wasnt stopping a wall from cracking
wave

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239630
01/23/17 02:29 AM
01/23/17 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted By ccdave
Does the Hard Block indeed shrink and seperare from the cylinder walls after a few heat cycles as posted earlier? The manufacturers I looked at claim it does not?????
Ya, they all claim there's doesn't shrink. shruggy I'd like to see proof. My machinist claims they don't shrink. True on the oil cooler thing "it aint rocket science". Many tow packages include them - most police package cars have them. Don't know how well these factory engineered packages would work under our type of racing conditions though. Pressure drop is definitely a consideration. FWIW, oil pressure on fire up @ idle with my 408 = 70psi. At 180 oil temp @ idle = 35psi. At 220 oil temp = 25psi.(10W30 synthetic).


Fastest 300
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Crizila] #2239635
01/23/17 02:38 AM
01/23/17 02:38 AM
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All cements based fillers shrink shruggy I've used Moroso block filler once and it shrank away from one freeze plug after it pushed it out enough to need replacing shruggy
I've heard that "Hard Block" brand filler is a epoxy filler and doesn't need to cure 30 days and it doesn't shrink also confused I also heard it does expand and shrink shruggy I haven't used it so I don't know about it either way shruggy


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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Cab_Burge] #2239636
01/23/17 02:42 AM
01/23/17 02:42 AM
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PA.
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Over my 40 plus years of racing I wonder how much I've saved by not buying concrete to fill my blocks. LOL


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239647
01/23/17 03:17 AM
01/23/17 03:17 AM
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Hard Block is magnetic. It has a percentage of cast iron in it to help it expand and contract as the block warms and cools.

I have heard some crazy sounds the 1st few runs on a fresh fill. Never had a problem with a bore

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Cab_Burge] #2239731
01/23/17 12:55 PM
01/23/17 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
All cements based fillers shrink shruggy I've used Moroso block filler once and it shrank away from one freeze plug after it pushed it out enough to need replacing shruggy
I've heard that "Hard Block" brand filler is a epoxy filler and doesn't need to cure 30 days and it doesn't shrink also confused I also heard it does expand and shrink shruggy I haven't used it so I don't know about it either way shruggy
Moroso is the brand I used . Your scaring me !!!! eek eek wave


Fastest 300
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Crizila] #2239765
01/23/17 01:50 PM
01/23/17 01:50 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Hard block is whats in my block. My machinest recommended it, said it wouldn't shrink. guess ill find out.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dizuster] #2242448
01/27/17 08:40 PM
01/27/17 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By dizuster

1) I filled the block AFTER it was machined... checking the bore before and after it didn't move hardly SQUAT...



I feel like with everything, there is a lot of people perpetuating old wives tales from things they've heard.


i have done this as well... on a tall deck big block, tall fill (bottom of the water pump holes). NO DIFFERENCE in the before and after measurements. at all. that engine lives on as we speak.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: maximum entropy] #2242655
01/28/17 03:23 AM
01/28/17 03:23 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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good to hear positive experiences. hope to have same

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324505
06/21/17 01:29 AM
06/21/17 01:29 AM
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IL
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Dart451 Offline
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Any updates on street temps?

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Dart451] #2324530
06/21/17 03:08 AM
06/21/17 03:08 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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Not yet. Just installing 511 in the car now. Gonna run without a cooler to start. Will add cooler later.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2324535
06/21/17 03:21 AM
06/21/17 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
Not yet. Just installing 511 in the car now. Gonna run without a cooler to start. Will add cooler later.


FWIW, I talked to Jason Pettis who builds/tunes some of the baddest cars around and he said "Good luck keeping the oil cool on the street even w/a cooler"..........1/2 fill maybe but full in his experience is hard to do if not impossible........ thumbs

Last edited by Thumperdart; 06/21/17 03:24 AM.

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