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Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239061 01/22/17 03:43 PM 01/22/17 03:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi ccdave The Ultimate
ccdave The Ultimate Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi	Lots of opinions on this topic Options: 1. Run it on the street with an oil cooler and HOPE for the best or SHOULD be ok. 2. Run it at the track only and not worry about oil temps. 3. Disassemble the block with all of your new un damaged parts, sell your filled and prepped block on Craigslist, find a block with decent cylinders and remove the words HOPE and SHOULD....

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239068 01/22/17 03:55 PM 01/22/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	well, unless I find a box full of money and I mean a lot of money or hit the lottery, that's not happening. I will run it as is and be the guinea pig. now I did call brad penn and amsoil awhile back when I had high oil temps in the small block. brad penn told me their oil was good to 360* and amsoil was good to 400+. so, I will keep amsoil in it and we will see just happens. just not sure what to expect with the cam break in, its gonna get hot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dizuster] #2239070 01/22/17 03:56 PM 01/22/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	i'm with you. I will run it without a cooler if possible. Thanks guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239071 01/22/17 03:57 PM 01/22/17 03:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,613 Deerfield, Ohio 70dusterjohn top fuel
70dusterjohn top fuel Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,613 Deerfield, Ohio	Been running ours for almost 10 years .. Lots of street and lots of track time. Oil cooler yes, never have I had a problem with oil or over heating the oil. Last year the wife and I decide to drive to New York .. It made it .. Changed the oil just because and drove it home .. I will admit it was not the best riding car to take but tons of thumbs up was worth it ..

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dizuster] #2239074 01/22/17 04:02 PM 01/22/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Originally Posted By dizuster I can only share my small block experience, but I bucked most of what is written in this thread. 1) I filled the block AFTER it was machined... checking the bore before and after it didn't move hardly SQUAT... 2) I never ran an oil cooler until I put a diaper on the car. Before that it never had any issue on the street. But once I put the diaper on it, the heat had no where to escape from the pan. Mine is filled up pretty high (well above the freeze plugs in the side of the block... on a small block you almost have no choice but to do this because they are so low.) I can put my finger through the deck and touch the top of the fill, so it's up pretty high. I feel like with everything, there is a lot of people perpetuating old wives tales from things they've heard. Worst case it MIGHT need an oil cooler.... and at the absolute worst it MIGHT need to have the hone touched up. Hardly reason to throw the block away and start over... My fill ( pics) on a 408 small block. Lost about 2 gallons of coolant. Water temp never sees over 180. Oil temp ( no cooler and 8 qt pan using 7 qts of oil - Royal Purple full synthetic race oil) seems to line out at around 220. That is about 3/4 hour driving on the street in 75 degree ambient temp. I believe that number would climb in hotter weather and for a longer period of driving time. Guess on that part, but rest not an old wives tale. Had my block machined after the fill. Have no idea how much the bores distort with heat and wasn't a high priority with the build anyway. It was a race only build and trying to get a stock block to live at 700HP range was the goal. Fastest 300

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: 70dusterjohn] #2239075 01/22/17 04:02 PM 01/22/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	Cool! good to hear. Ill see how it goes without the cooler first summer. From the opinions looks like I have too much fill for comfortable street driving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239084 01/22/17 04:13 PM 01/22/17 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	The thing with hard block is your trying to stabilize the center area of the bores.. with a short fill your really not doing anything and IMO is a waste and just added weight.. so if you fill high enough to do what its intended to do then you run into the hot oil issue and IMO a oil cooler is needed.. even then the oil still gets fairly warm.. and as in any time the oil gets heated up it gets thinner(viscosity) and pressure gets lower... I have had a engine with it on the streets and it did get the oil hot.. so I dont add it to any street car engine... JMO.. but since its already done use a good synthetic oil and a cooler

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239090 01/22/17 04:16 PM 01/22/17 04:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,099 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,099 Bend,OR USA	Two things I've heard from respected sources on oil temps, petroleum based oils will start to change molecure structure, go bad, close to 300F and be destroying itself at 325F. Molil 1 synthetics oils are supoose to be good to 500F before being hurt On the blocks with fill I have seen a filled 340 block prepared by Greg Lunatic ( ) on the engine dyno at Pettis performance have 180F on the outside of the block at or below the fill line and 130 F above the fill line using a hand held infra red temp gun I had freshen it for the owners and built them a complete new R1 block non filled spare motor, guess which one made the most power Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2239094 01/22/17 04:18 PM 01/22/17 04:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	ok Mike, looks like a oil cooler is in my future. not gonna use one right away as I would like to see where the oil temps are gonna go. can anyone suggest a good oil cooler? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239099 01/22/17 04:23 PM 01/22/17 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,151 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,151 PA.	I'm not a big E85 guy as I went straight to alcohol but if I had a high performance street strip car I would be running E85. That would probably help your cooling issues too. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239103 01/22/17 04:26 PM 01/22/17 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi ccdave The Ultimate
ccdave The Ultimate Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi	Since option 1 is your choice then I hope the engine will be ok and the engine should run fine👍👍👍👍👍👍

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239136 01/22/17 04:58 PM 01/22/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,355 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,355 Las Vegas	FWIW our filled block has been together and in the car since 2001 and never had any issues. I run an oil cooler for insurance, never have seen oil temps over 230-240 and that is only after sustained highway jaunts. Car make 750+ HP fwiw as well and we never ran it without the cooler either. Saw no need wanted it just to make sure. "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: ccdave] #2239152 01/22/17 05:10 PM 01/22/17 05:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	E85 might be an option. Ill know better what needs to be done once its up and running. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: pittsburghracer] #2239157 01/22/17 05:14 PM 01/22/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Originally Posted By pittsburghracer I'm not a big E85 guy as I went straight to alcohol but if I had a high performance street strip car I would be running E85. That would probably help your cooling issues too. Cooling the water isnt a issue.. even with E-85 the cyl and head temps will be the same if your burning good and that transfers over to the oil in the most part

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: Jeremiah] #2239248 01/22/17 06:35 PM 01/22/17 06:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted By Jeremiah Originally Posted By madscientist Not a fan of engine oil coolers. Please explain. Because most guys run a cooler that is too small, they use crap fittings and hose a mile long and, I'd bet very few here have ever checked the pressure drop across an oil cooler. I have. Unless it's very expensive, it's horrible. 8 quarts in the pan and a QUALITY oil and forget it. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239267 01/22/17 06:54 PM 01/22/17 06:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,613 Deerfield, Ohio 70dusterjohn top fuel
70dusterjohn top fuel Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,613 Deerfield, Ohio	We have a 12 qt pan, with diaper and I have a lot of money over 500 in the cooler and lines. It's not cheap to do it the right way.. I run two pressure gauges in the car one pre cooler one after .. Just to keep an eye on it. On 90 plus days I see maybe 15 lbs drop..

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: madscientist] #2239271 01/22/17 06:58 PM 01/22/17 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio dartman366 I Live Here
dartman366 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio	Doug my engine machinist forbid me to fill my 512 block even tho it was for strip only, told me the wall thickness is plenty suffiecent and that filling will change the temp at the lower end of the bore to cause piston scuffing and different wear charistics, now that said I did a half fill on my strip only 408 small block and have noticed that the oil pressure would drop quite a bit the more I ran it and had me concerned during round robin passes at the end of the class run's, is it because of the excess temp in the oil? don't know but that would make sense to me,,oh and by the way I ran Brad Penn 20W50 semi synthetic, proof will be in the teardown and freshen-up. Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: dartman366] #2239360 01/22/17 09:13 PM 01/22/17 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	I ran a short fill in my 408 and the pistons were scuffed bad both times I tore it down. after a freeway ride the pressure would drop quite a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239372 01/22/17 09:27 PM 01/22/17 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave OP master
mopar dave OP master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan	one thing good about this issue is the thin cylinder shouldn't move around much, preventing any cracks. maybe I could add a power adder and put the boost right to it. with the aluminum caps I would think it should be a solid piece. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: How much is too much hard block [Re: mopar dave] #2239383 01/22/17 09:47 PM 01/22/17 09:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Originally Posted By mopar dave one thing good about this issue is the thin cylinder shouldn't move around much, preventing any cracks. maybe I could add a power adder and put the boost right to it. with the aluminum caps I would think it should be a solid piece. JMO... but the filler shrinks a bit so dont think you wont crack a cyl.. I did it twice on the same cyl on the same block.. but it wasnt a tall fill.. so I dont think it was up where you need to help stiffen the cyl walls EDIT Thats why some dont see any change in the bore because it shrinks back a bit and doesnt PUSH on the walls Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/22/17 09:50 PM.

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