Sorry to hear you're not feeling well Barry. Hope you're back to 100% soon.

So if you cant defend your position then you resort to insults, nice.

SO you went to the trouble of looking at the casting date on the engine but didn't bother to check the trans for a VIN number or the assembly date on the engine (assuming you don't have it since you answered that question yet either). Seems to me that would be fairly important info and useful to your cause IF it lined up with what you are looking to document. Is one of the 3 cars on your list yours?

Insult away I have no self esteem issues.

Alex Rocks!!!! I like the blue on the chair. Little brighter then B5, but cool.

this will be my last "post "on this subject, not because I am surrendering my search or "succumb" to the content this post has graduated too. this post originally started as a request for information from anyone with information on T/A's and AAR's. the first response was from ALASKAN_T/A. Recognizing his response as an "opinion" I merely asked if he had any documentation to support his statements. Evidently that is where I went wrong.
I have been subjected to numerous "opinion's" in response to my questions in order to avoid the production of the "documentation in support of their "opinions" to be a factual basis.
This has been one man's quest for answers to his personal curiosity.
Instead of replying as he did 5 days later('I can't give what I don't have '). I was subjected to questionable information with out documentation and ridiculed because I did not accept undocumented opinions as fact.
Alaskan_T/A has his own website listed as the "official T/A Challenger Registry" with lots of vin #'s and broadcast sheets listed as found and other info I assume kept private.
Because I dared to ask for "documentation" he has more or less he answered my question as no matter how you fraze the question you will not get the answer you desire, I have spoken.
Hence the "Mopar God" has spoken and his "deciples" have come to his side.
What this has turned into, instead of a car enthusiast asking for a little help to man trying to become the "Mopar God " that nobody questions.
I can put up with sheep following the shepard blindly but I havn't been blinded yet. but the turning point for me was when a member exploited his child over subject matter that has absolutely nothing to do with his child or his handicap. If its that important to you that you have to exploit your child to make a point about a hobby ... well I guess you win. It's just not that important to me.

Some good information in between the but something comes to mind on this thread.

Heard this a long time ago. One should never judge another, but if you are so inclined to do so, Judge them on their abilities and not yours. Get well Barry!

Little Detroit,

I am going to postulate that I am not the only one that thinks Moparts would be a better site without you on it!

As much as it pains me I will defend Little Detroit a little on this, he was just taking a shot at me cause he didn't want to answer my question and I don't really feel he had any ill will towards the disabled. Special kids offer special challenges and special rewards and there are few of us who have not been touched by the love or perseverance they show and as well as the people that care for them.

I usually don't participate in back & forth banter threads but a personal nerve was struck and I overreacted. For that I apologize and am removing myself with a self imposed time out

Mike... Nobody on earth could answer your question. In fact... You knew full well when you made your post that one of the cars you mention had the engine replaced... the owner of that car told you so... you yourself had contacted me a while back about your car which is one of the 3... For all the things you have said about Barry and wanting absolute proof and documentation... There is no such thing because what you posted is something you made up. whatever that reason is only you know. But the engine in your car and the other car are not the original engines. You see when they stamped the engines they also stamped the trans so all you have to do is look at the transmissions and see if the vin number is stamped on the pad and that would give you your answer. There is no paperwork or spread sheet or documentation from Chrysler. If you want to know about a specific AAR or T/A you can contact myself or Barry and either of us would be glad to tell you if there is any information out there.

Hey, I chimed in with an answer to the question back on Dec 30th, but now in all the turmoil, I have forgot what the question was...

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out how we got from SPD, door stickers and casting dates to painted tops, but then again, I muddied the waters myself with bench seat info.

My T/A has an SPD of 4/15, a casting date of 4/6 and a 4/70 door sticker. I wonder what the actual build date was, because I can't possibly imagine that the motor could be done and in the car in nine days time after casting. I'll try to remember to look at the block for the assembly date.

Even if the door sticker is the "be all end all" date, it still covers a whole month, and let's say the sticker says "3/70" and the line worker is placing it on the car on 4/1. Do you REALLY think he went back for a NEW, "correct" sticker? I have a bridge and some swampland for you if you do.

If I understand correctly the build sheet will have a time that it was on the line on it, if you have that. It would interesting to know the engine build date and time on the sheet. MY car was a 407 car and is believed to been on the line on 403, a friends is a 403 car and it was done in March, door sticker is 03/70, my door sticker had already been removed when I got my car. Point is they had been running a head of schedule a week or so before your SPD.

The date stamped into you K frame is pretty close to when the car started assembly and your engine assembly is not the front of the block.

unfortunately it looks like I've been drawn into this conflict once more. Lets see if I can clear it up for you.
now which questions is it that nobody on earth could possibly answer , could it be;
1.anybody got any accurate info?
2.trying to find out why no vin on block?
3.were blocks only cast on certain dates?
4.did they cast blocks in batches?
5.can you help?
6.in other words these could be original blocks?
7.does anybody have a data base similar to the charger 500
registry
8. would you mind sharing info with us?
9. Since you have been known for having the largest data base on T/A and AAR's and have had some ties with the Chrysler Historical Society I would like to know if you have any documentation to either support or deny any of the scenario's . and finally would it be possible for you to make a spread sheet with all the vin's for T/A's and AAR's with SPD's, decal date, and fender tag date along with casting date and whether vin is on block? I do know its a lot to ask ,but from what I have read you have the largest data base and it speed things up for everybody if you were able to share the info. thank you.
10.do you have any documentation to support your statement?
11. speculation or documentation which is it?
12. on what dates in 1970 were SCCA races held?
13. on what date did manufactures have to comply with SCCA's
application requirements?
14. does the word hypocrite come to mind?
Those are the questions I asked, which ones are impossible for anybody on earth to answer?
Now here's where this starts to get interesting to me. I've
been notified that you edited your post. It seems that you used a gentleman's name in your "original post" to prove a point. Wasn't there a statement about privacy?
"They, both Barry and Jeff, have a privacy agreement with the people that contribute."
The word Hypocrite keeps coming to mind. It seams that your standards of privacy are only in affect when it suits your needs.
While it is true that I had knowledge of the gentleman's info on his aar and had discussed it with him , and yes he did say he had a piece of the warrantee tag still attached to his block. That being said I did not say I only had info on 3 cars, I said I came across 3 that "all" had similar issues.( take notice I didn't use any names)
I have a few others but they are distant and not confirmed as of yet. It seam's that you have jumped the gun a little to defend your friend. Which tells me a little about your investigation skills.
Its amusing to me that you waited until after I post that this my last response on this subject to take your "cheap shot" at me.
As for your statement ..." There is no such thing because what you posted is something you made up" . without getting into a he said she said battle, I have this to say.
I asked for "documentation to either confirm or deny my scenario's. So I wasn't really trying to make it to my liking I just wanted proof either way. But it seams that all was not lost ,What we have realized is that there are those out there that let their EGO"S get the best of themselves and try to fill in the gaps with their opinions and disguise them as fact.
The last person that tried to pull that off has been very low keyed since it bit him in the butt.
I have noticed that 5 of my fans (sarcasm)have there own registry. Is there a pattern there?
by the way I almost .let this slip by .
I did not ask for any spreadsheet from Chrysler ,only asked if Berry had the info on all the T/A's and AAR's in a spread sheet or if would do that for all of us to see. you might want to read things over 2 or 3 times till you get right.
I hope this clears it up.

Let's try it this way.....

Mike, do you honestly believe that some cars built in March left the factory with engines cast in April in them?

well according to you the "Mylar sticker" is the actual build date. But the correct name for it is a Compliance Decal, If you carefully read what is printed on the Compliance Decal it is self explanatory. read what it says not what you think it says.
"This vehicle conforms to all applicable U.S. FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFTEY STANARDS IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE SHOWN ABOVE", meaning it was built in compliance with the regulations that were in effect or use at the date shown above.
In my "opinion" on what I read or have read upto this point leads me to believe that there is no actual way to verify the actual finish date of the vehicle. Therefore in my "opinion" the only factual date basis for the production is the "spd" as you call it. The production of the was started on a certain date when the order was taken or scheduled by Chrysler, the order taken ,broadcast sheet filled out, fender tag made, order placed in line and then what ever happens next assembled or delayed for what ever reason. That is my "opinion" so far and is exactly why I asked the Questions I asked. as for the "Compliance Decal" it was most likely the last ID. placed on the vehicle however the date listed on the decal was merely a confirmation of standards in effect at that time.
With all of that information and the fact that I stumbled across 3 vehicles roughly built in same time period ,has T/A block unstamped, and all have the same casting date block, some shortly before "spd" and some after "spd". enough of a coincidence for me to ask Questions, not mention the Welborne - Andlucci thing. So the answer to your question do I think it is possible yes I do think it is possible, but not for certain one way or the other until I find out if there are more cars with the same scenario's . Do you really stand by your statement that the "Mylar Sticker" is the actual finish date

OK.

I have no evidence to support your theory, so I can not help you.

If you can prove your theory with your own research, your findings will be interesting to read.

Best of luck with your quest.

It does seem doubtful that a door sticker dated March would have a block dated April in a car, however I would rather call it doubtful than something more affirmative without providing the proof?? Just my opinion. 50 years ago is a long time. My car is listed on a site as having the rare V02 painted top. The owner of that site actually asked anyone who had further info regarding the option to contact him. I was trying to share some info I got from one of the men who actually worked on and saw the car go through the painting stages. He told me the story which I posted, but now it appears that others have their own version and I am bewildered by the fact that these folks won't even consider my info as valid?? To me, that is strange. Oh, and that is how we went from tags to option codes? It wasn't really about tags and option codes as it is about trying to make your version more correct than someone elses version. I also found it really fascinating to find Galen charging 250.00 to talk to someone for 30 minutes using the information folks gave up freely to him??? Is he really a hobby guy or a businessman looking to profit from the free info he acquired. Personally, I could care less about all this crap. I really don't care how much any of my cars are worth. I just love working on them and driving them and sharing thoughts with other Mopar Hobby People. But I do understand both sides of what is being said here.