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Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys #2233534
01/13/17 03:29 PM
01/13/17 03:29 PM
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808CUDA Offline OP
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My recently acquired Challenger had been running on a Mopar Chrome box P4120534, .25 Ohm ballast and Mopar Repro oil filled ignition coil that is mounted horizontally on a six pack intake.

I found the coil was failing under load by swapping with a red MSD Blaster coil I had from another car.

Read an epoxy filled coil is best due to horizontal mounting so purchased the MSD HVC coil. Installed and life was great for about a day till it mysteriously stalled at a light with a crank, no start condition. Let it cool down and it would start up briefly and stall again.

Chased my tail since I didn't feel the new coil would be bad. I swapped the .25 Ohm ballast for the recommended .8 ohm. No dice.
Swapped the Chrome box with a known good Echlin, no dice, still stalled.
Measured pick up coil resistance, was good at 295 ohms and register .5vac while cranking. To be safe, replaced pick up coil with new one and same results, still stalled.

Swapped the new coil and put my MSD red coil back in, all good and no stalling.

Received a new replacement MSD black 8222 coil and run it with the .8 ohm ballast. Drove it an hour and no stalling so I'm guessing fixed.

I called MSD Tech support to get their final word on the correct setup with their coil and what ballast. The person I spoke to was not even familiar with a Chrysler electronic ignition which killed all my confidence in them. He initially said it shouldn't need a ballast since the ECU switches the coil but then changed his reply after I told him the stock set-up uses a 1.2 ohm ballast and a 1.5 ohm coil.

My concern is...
- what have you folks successfully run with a Mopar Electronic ignition with MSD coil?
- Can I potentially have a Chrome box overdriving the coil? I have left the Echlin stock unit in for now but concerned since I've read due to the low coil/ballast combo the ECU can't handle the extra current.

Appreciate any light to be shed on this.
Trying to avoid installing a CD ignition like MSD 6AL since I want to keep it all Mopar if possible.
Thanks in advance

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2233566
01/13/17 04:29 PM
01/13/17 04:29 PM
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FWIW, before I parked my 340+6 years ago, I had converted it using Chrysler's electronic ignition kit (electronic distributor and orange box). I used a hotter Accel chrome coil and Accel super wires at the time. The combo ran fine. The coil was slightly larger in diameter than the stock Chry coil. I'm getting ready to fire the motor up sometime this spring after having sat for some years. I'm going with the same combo I put on years ago but I've painted the Accel coil black. I going to try to run the repo dated stock wires for the look even though the manufacturer recommends that their wires not be used with a hot ignition system. I don't know if this applies to the Chrysler orange box/dist setup or to something really hot like the MSD 6AL system. Isn't the chrome box hotter than the orange box? Anyway didn't really answer your question but will be following this thread. Regards.


“You’ll own nothing” — And “you’ll be happy about it.”
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Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2233635
01/13/17 06:28 PM
01/13/17 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Swapped the new coil and put my MSD red coil back in, all good and no stalling.

Received a new replacement MSD black 8222 coil and run it with the .8 ohm ballast. Drove it an hour and no stalling so I'm guessing fixed.

I think you are good now & the chrome box can easily handle the .8 ohm ballast with either of those coils. If you do want a Mopar coil to keep it all Mopar, not sure which one I would suggest. An E coil is the best.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: FM3AAR] #2233897
01/14/17 04:09 AM
01/14/17 04:09 AM
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808CUDA Offline OP
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Originally Posted By FM3AAR
FWIW, before I parked my 340+6 years ago, I had converted it using Chrysler's electronic ignition kit (electronic distributor and orange box). I used a hotter Accel chrome coil and Accel super wires at the time. The combo ran fine. The coil was slightly larger in diameter than the stock Chry coil. I'm getting ready to fire the motor up sometime this spring after having sat for some years. I'm going with the same combo I put on years ago but I've painted the Accel coil black. I going to try to run the repo dated stock wires for the look even though the manufacturer recommends that their wires not be used with a hot ignition system. I don't know if this applies to the Chrysler orange box/dist setup or to something really hot like the MSD 6AL system. Isn't the chrome box hotter than the orange box? Anyway didn't really answer your question but will be following this thread. Regards.


Thanks for the input. The way you had and proceeding was typically the way I would go. I have had MSD set-ups in the past and successful. Just wanted to keep it Mopar electronic this time around and this whole coils mounted horizontally shouldn't be oil filled brought me to this epoxy filled coil.

Still hopin someone will chime in with their combo.

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: RapidRobert] #2233898
01/14/17 04:10 AM
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808CUDA Offline OP
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
I think you are good now & the chrome box can easily handle the .8 ohm ballast with either of those coils. If you do want a Mopar coil to keep it all Mopar, not sure which one I would suggest. An E coil is the best.


Thanks Robert. What is an E coil?

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2233959
01/14/17 12:18 PM
01/14/17 12:18 PM
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An E coil is packed with epoxy as opposed to being oil filled. It can handle a full 12V (no ballast) for a hotter spark.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: RapidRobert] #2233963
01/14/17 12:31 PM
01/14/17 12:31 PM
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is it possible to run a new style coil, [not a coil pack] from a late model[2000+ m.y.] v6 on a mopar electronic ignition system ? this would be run without a ballast. just tossing a thought out there.
beer

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: moparx] #2233967
01/14/17 12:36 PM
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I was thinking Dog said a 1990 furd taurus E coil is a good one. I can't find the part # he posted & he said it is dirt cheap on eBay


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2234508
01/15/17 07:31 AM
01/15/17 07:31 AM
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808CUDA Offline OP
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Wow... was really hoping for fellow Moparts members to pull through on this one. Looks like I'll have to figure this out with a few coils, ballasts & modules...

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2234519
01/15/17 09:16 AM
01/15/17 09:16 AM
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Of course you could just follow the MSD instructions and run the ballast it tells you to run.

But what could you complain about then?

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8222.pdf


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2234538
01/15/17 11:17 AM
01/15/17 11:17 AM
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70Duster Offline
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I'm using the Mopar Electronic Ignition distributor, Mopar Orange Box, MSD Blaster 2 Coil and .8 Ohm ballast resistor. This was installed in 1999 and not one bit of trouble since.

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: Supercuda] #2234605
01/15/17 01:25 PM
01/15/17 01:25 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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Originally Posted By Supercuda
Of course you could just follow the MSD instructions and run the ballast it tells you to run.

But what could you complain about then?

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8222.pdf



And it only tells you to run the .8 ohm Ballast Resistor when using a Points Type Ignition System

Note: This Blaster Coil Kit is intended to be used with an MSD Ignition. If installing on a stock, points style ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214 or the Blaster Coil Kits, PN 8200 and 8203 are equipped with one.


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
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Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2234615
01/15/17 01:36 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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Sounds to me , more like a ground issue or a wiring issue

Overthinking the MSD Blaster 2 Coil and ballast resistor when in theory that coil should not I repeat should not even require a ballast resistor , but most will say it does in relation to the mopar electronic ignition system


Last edited by bee1971; 01/15/17 01:49 PM.

1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: RapidRobert] #2234623
01/15/17 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
An E coil is packed with epoxy as opposed to being oil filled. It can handle a full 12V (no ballast) for a hotter spark.


X2


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: bee1971] #2234632
01/15/17 02:01 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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In '83 I had an Accell super coil, the big yellow beast with a regular 70's Mopar electronic dist and a '75 chebby black OE HEI module with NO ballast & it ran awesome with no failure. Accell later told me to run either a .7 or .8 ohm (I forget which) ballast with it. You have alot of leeway on what you can and cannot get by with. As we know electrical quality for the most part has deteriorated significantly & I would always carry spare(s).


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Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 70Duster] #2234995
01/15/17 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted By 70Duster
I'm using the Mopar Electronic Ignition distributor, Mopar Orange Box, MSD Blaster 2 Coil and .8 Ohm ballast resistor. This was installed in 1999 and not one bit of trouble since.


Thanks 70 Duster. Out of curiosity, is your coil mounted horizontal or vertically.

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: bee1971] #2235001
01/15/17 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By bee1971
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Of course you could just follow the MSD instructions and run the ballast it tells you to run.

But what could you complain about then?

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8222.pdf



And it only tells you to run the .8 ohm Ballast Resistor when using a Points Type Ignition System

Note: This Blaster Coil Kit is intended to be used with an MSD Ignition. If installing on a stock, points style ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214 or the Blaster Coil Kits, PN 8200 and 8203 are equipped with one.



Thanks Bee1971. Exactly my dilemma. MSD's own tech guy was stumped when I asked him about the ballast on a Mopar ECU.

Supercuda, it's obvious you didn't read everything in my original post. I ran it with .25 ohm and this coil failed. Now it's with the recommended .8 ohm ballast per MSD and the tech guy wasn't sure if that's even right. Hence why I'm on here asking fellow members with real world known good results. Didn't need you to jump in and be a [censored].

Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2490810
05/02/18 10:26 AM
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Sounds like a lot of MSD Coils are failing lately from the research I did the last few days

Had my new 432 Stroker on the road the other day for the first time in over a year

Cruising on the highway after about a hour the engine started missing at high rpms

Turned around and headed home , where it started getting worse even at lower cruise

What I first noticed was the tachometer needle was bouncing all over the place , had a mind of its own

Went to touch the MSD 8202 Red Coil checking the tach wire , was super super hot

Just swapped in a old Mopar Resto coil that I had laying around along with a .8 resistor

Ran it for a few hours problem solved

This MSD 8202 Coil I had for about 5 years , ran fine with MP Chrome ECU , MP Distributor prior

First day with the new motor , had me wondering now what - The Tach issue was the only thing that pointed me directly to the coil


Anyways , this MSD 8222 Epoxy Coil - Better ? Same ?

Is there a better coil in factory location bracket on aluminum intake ?

Or is it time for a FBO Upgrade or Rev n nator Upgrade for this new motor

Street Use

Thanx Scott


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: bee1971] #2490815
05/02/18 10:50 AM
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According to specs from MSD, (from afew years ago)
Both the oil filled and the epoxy filled Blaster 2 coils you mentioned are 100:1 turn ratio, with identical internal resistances and will work the same.

IMO an oil filled unit will dissapate heat better and the epoxy filled should tolerate vibtration better. A well made oil filled unit should be OK mounted horizontally. Chrysler would have figured something else out very quickly if it was a major or common problem. Sure its better to be vertical, but even that is no guarentee.

As far as resistor. Use the ones that are recommended for the ECU + coil combination you are using. MP has a list for the older ones in the Engine Book. They have recommended coil for the ECUs, by part number.

A Blaster 2, with 100:1 turn ratioand .7 Ohm Primary resistance may run better at high rpm and worse at street speeds. Any coil with a lower primary resistance than designed will probably run hotter.



Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: 808CUDA] #2490909
05/02/18 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By 808CUDA
Originally Posted By bee1971
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Of course you could just follow the MSD instructions and run the ballast it tells you to run.

But what could you complain about then?

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8222.pdf



And it only tells you to run the .8 ohm Ballast Resistor when using a Points Type Ignition System

Note: This Blaster Coil Kit is intended to be used with an MSD Ignition. If installing on a stock, points style ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214 or the Blaster Coil Kits, PN 8200 and 8203 are equipped with one.



Thanks Bee1971. Exactly my dilemma. MSD's own tech guy was stumped when I asked him about the ballast on a Mopar ECU.

Supercuda, it's obvious you didn't read everything in my original post. I ran it with .25 ohm and this coil failed. Now it's with the recommended .8 ohm ballast per MSD and the tech guy wasn't sure if that's even right. Hence why I'm on here asking fellow members with real world known good results. Didn't need you to jump in and be a [censored].


The problem here is that you and the inexperienced tech at MSD don't know the difference between a cd ignition like an MSD and an inductive ignition like with points or a transistor. The mopar style boxes just replace the points with a transistor and circuits to provide an optimal amount of dwell to saturate the coil. The cd ignition on the other hand use a big capacitor to saturate the coil with a much higher voltage for a much shorter period of time. When MSD says what ballast to use for point ignition they probably should say for inductive ignition instead. Yes that would include mopar ignition boxes.

So I guess Supercuda did point you in the right direction. He just didn't tell you that both points and mopar boxes are inductive ignitions. Name calling probably not justified.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Which ballast with MSD HVC #8222 black coil? elect ign sys [Re: GomangoCuda] #2491280
05/03/18 02:13 AM
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The Mopar chrome box, .25 ohm coil and MSD Black HVC coil or Red MSD coil (depending on mounting position) is my go to Stock ignition setup for the cars I do. I have been running this setup (black coil) on my car for over 10 years with no problems. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if MSD quality is down these days.


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