I saw a small block car in that class, and if I'm not mistaken he was running 7.8 NA. Is that where the bar is set now, or are guys going faster? For as few mopes as there are in it, you'd think they'd leave the head class deal alone for mopes till they get up in the field.

[quote=dthemi]1400 is for sure possible as an na motor, as well as 1100 foot pounds in na trim.

And santa is coming in 2 weeks!!!!!

All joking aside, I am not a believer. Doing a mild pump gas deal pred motor now, shooting for 900-950. every day the dyno means less to me. MPH is the real report card!

Well, I'm glad I don't limit what I try to do based on what you guys think is possible lol

When it takes a serious effort to make 1400 with a tall deck 660 Inch big cheif, I'd say it's time to re evaluate what's considered a serious effot. I wouldn't be happy with a 1400hp big cheif at that size, or quality nor with a similar Thor.

The motor is going in the car as is now being a nitrous motor. When the car is finished, and i catch a break in weather, and schedule I'll be renting SGMP, or commerce to test. Any of you nay, or hey sayers will be welcome to attend to make sure it's all on the level. You'll have plenty of notice.

Monte, you should of any one here, know what jet, makes what power. Since it's going to be on spray, you can inspect the tune to see there's no funny business, if you have time, or interest. WJ will be there to sort the chassis. So it'll either run what it should, or it won't lol.


All the power given up to make the motor suitable for nitrous, should make it more than evident that a 1400 hp predator is more than possible. Again, assuming it runs what it should as is.

No reason for me to see it. That is a nitrous motor and as such has no real relevance to current discussion.

I don't doubt anything you think you can do Darren, I just don't happen to agree. I think there is zero chance of a 650" Predator headed motor making 1400 NA horsepower on a 4.560 bore, but that's only my opinion

Like I said before not trying to start a pi$$ing match at all. I am on your side for sure. For me spending that kind of money to try and make this deal even close to that number is something I will NOT even attempt. Way better options out there for a purpose built race motor for sure. As you said earlier just all our personal opinions.

I think as Monte has pointed out the bore is the biggest issue for me thinking there is that much to be had. You meantioned earler limited valve sizing, on mine we though 2.450" was doable, but again mine is a bracket piece plain and simple. But mine is a nitrous deal too. Having said that I don't think what I have can make 1300hp. Just my opinion but hey I would love to be wrong, I already have the stuff and am willing to refine what's there a bit more to see if what if is anything left.

I hope you do well testing your car. And I have no doubt it will run well. You have access to people and help that simply put most of us cannot access. Heck I am lucky to get a decent facility to run on out here most the time. Other than a couple of division races the track simply is not very good. There is no opportunity for the common man to rent LVMS either right now let alone have the caliber of people around you do. So for my deal it's gonna take some time for it to get sorted out, just the way it is.

not listening to others opinions or rather not letting them "get in your way" is how things in this hobby move forward. Considering many Mopar people that see my engine ask me "why I have a chevy engine". Goes to show just how far some things have come. So I say more power to you. We all have our opinions of what is possible. Mine is based off what I have seen others do with similar equipment nothing more. Lord knows I am not an expert just report what I see. More power to you and I wish you nothing but the best. And if anyone can do it I would imagine you would be that guy.

Yes the fastest cars in the class have dipped into the 7.80's. But in really good air. One has been .70's, and likely there will be a second soon to join him. But the .70 run was in winter testing so who knows what that means, could have been light great air who knows. It has not repeated that number at an NMCA race. I am sure, or at least hope it will continue to evolve. Most of the cars are small blocks, small block Fords to be exact. But there is a Pontiac that is really close for sure. There is really only one Mopar out there anymore and it is not in a Mopar car. It is Mr Sanders Mustang with the 600-13x head, IIRC it is a 565" deal or close to that. There are some great people ion the class, the rules are slow to be tweaked for sure. Fords were Dominant for the most part, the one Pontiac has been running well the last two years for sure.

That's flying for a heavy NA car. Looks like everything else where the car has to be totally specific to the class. Almost like they've arranged the rules to suit small block cars similar in size, and weight to the mustangs. That would make sense too since there are more drag mustangs than any other platform.

The best head out there IMO for classification closet to factory is the latest port design A 460 ford head. They're putting a port in that head now that's better than any C head out there. I saw an A head 536 single 4 make 1170, and a 514 make 1105.

Relevant to the discussion in that we're talking about what the motor made as a nitrous deal. Taking that into consideration, and knowing the power difference there is between NA effort, and nitrous sacrifices. Typically in this size motor we see 60-80 hp difference NA to nitrous. That's from where my assertions about 1400 are coming from. After I wear on this combo for a few months, I'll be pulling it, and re doing it as NA to see if that mark can be hit. I'm with everyone here in that ET, or MPH can't be tricked, fooled, or altered. The single 4 pred I did is running what it should based on making 1200 in an all steel 66 belvedere.

I always have at couple, or more engines underway all the time. Some of them are disappointments, some what I expect, and on the rare occasion way better than I expected. This one is one of those, and it's been quite a while since hitting on one. The not so great ones either get redone, or given to guys who are having trouble financially for reasons I see that are beyond their control (sick kids, injury, lost jobs ect). I donate around 50 grand a year in parts, engines, trans, electronics ect, to good guys so I can write it off, and not get buried in the crap I buy, or build. I even donated the motor I won the MM engine challenge with. What I'm saying is I don't just build an engine every so often. I'm constantly at it, trying new stuff, and hitting, and missing.

My excitement about these heads isn't a hey look at me. I want mopar guys to be fast, and this is the best gig I see going for us right now. The more people running them, the more we'll collectively learn. For me I see it being done. Not easily, or cheaply, but what ever is? NA it'll 680 inch

The NA10.5 stuff is generally 400-420 cubes. The top cars making 1100ish hp. Blankenships new piece is over that number or so I hear. If that is the case then there is likely one more SBF that is close.

I agree about having a head available that can make power. Guess we will all see how much in the end. I will be watching for sure. This will likely be the last of it for me, we will likely change some things when we freshen it up that I feel are costing us some power and that will likely be it for me. But it will have to wait for sure. For now its time to run the car and see what we have and do some racing. Afterall it is just a bracket motor.

What is the average weight of the 10.5 cars? I hate to be high jacking but not sure if starting a new thread is worth it as many of them are not Mopar.

[quote=dthemi]Well, I'm glad I don't limit what I try to do based on what you guys think is possible lol





sent you a pm Darren

Tom depends on the combo really but most are 2700-3000. Likely one or two just over 3000 and a couple under 2700. Most guys opt for 400+- cubes in a small block which keeps them above 2700. BUt some of the guys who crossover from comp are lighter and come in a 358 or fewer cubes. We have one on the west coast at 331 cubes. That car runs 8.teens pretty consistently. The car we run is 2870 at 417 cubes on the east coast a tad bit lighter out west. Although this year looks like we will be the same in both places. There are a few things that add weight by rule to the combos and some that subtract weight. Not just heads, oil system, intake material, number of carbs, trans, resr suspension etc. Some combos are more friendly on weight than others for sure. Originally the rules package we use now was written by a group of SB Ford guys. So they had a decided advantage, although I will say NMCA is racer friendly and has done a good job at evening up the rules package each year.

A pic of the powerplant and you can see the intake dilemma and one of the car

That looks like fun if a guy had time, know how, and money. Mostly know how!

Well Darren...........you decode you want to give that nitrous Predator motor away, or just let a man borrow it, we can put it in the GTX and beat the snot out of it..........LOL!!!

Mine isn't anything like Al's, Tony's, or Darren's, but it's finally in the car. It made 1199 HP on the dyno, so I am hoping it runs like it dynoed. We'll see. It was a PITA trying to fit everything in my dragster and will make the car weigh 2020#'s instead of 1870#'s, so I'm hoping it runs 7.40's in 7000 + corrected altitude, but doubt it will. We are usually .4-.5 slow here by comparison to sea level. It should run 7.20 or better in Las Vegas. I'll be there in the spring.

Could have gone with an aluminum block on that and shaved some weight, no? I love the cooling effect of the aluminum blocks and the difference in weight.

I could have but didn't have enough money at the time. My 572 is aluminum. I may buy another block for this one, if the source is reliable and doesn't expect money up front. I bought this block after I almost send KB a $3000 deposit. Sure glad I did.