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Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: scatpacktom] #218393 02/16/09 11:52 PM 02/16/09 11:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,160 Texas dannysbee master
dannysbee master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,160 Texas	What part do think is not correct? The SBC does not have as much deck height as the Mopar and pretty sure you need a raised cam aftermarket block to get much over 415 inches. The Vettes are around 3000 lbs. LT1 Vette's I believe only came 4 speeds. Z/28 were available either auto or 4-speed. Yes I think if a guy uses his head you will be able to get an Abody very close to 50/50 with 100 lbs ballast. I'm a big ole boy and I am driving from the back seat. And no doubt about it the L88 is a better package. Win lose or draw I will take the Mopar. Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: dannysbee] #218394 02/17/09 12:28 AM 02/17/09 12:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa S scatpacktom master
scatpacktom master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa	Well first of all I don't think the stick is a disadvantage.Second it has beeen rumored the Vette has well over 450 inches.Vette cuts air at about mid track,driver sits on the rear axle,rear tires get equally loaded,engine sits way back,98 inch wheelbase,has all good manifolds and air and fuel mixing devices. In my opinion the Vettes should win every Fast race and when they don't it is a victory for everyone with a solid axle. Also if you think you're gonna get to 50/50 with just a hundred pounds in the trunk you got another thing coming

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: scatpacktom] #218395 02/17/09 01:12 AM 02/17/09 01:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,160 Texas dannysbee master
dannysbee master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,160 Texas	If he has 450 cubic inches he is not using a stock block plain and simple. I personally do not think the independent rear suspension is an advantage. It eats a lot of Hp. Short wheel base is, I agree. If the cars had more tire I agree auto would not have an advantage. But for cutting lights, and launching on a small tire I will take the auto. As far as weight distribution, let you know as the project comes along. Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: dannysbee] #218396 02/17/09 08:56 AM 02/17/09 08:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 419 NY F F1Scamp mopar
F1Scamp mopar F Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 419 NY	He uses the 400 block, they can run the 400 to substitute a 350 just like us mopar guys can run a 360 in a 273 car. As far as Benoint goes, real nice guy to talk to, crazy burnouts, fun to watch. I just would feel safer running next to him if he put the rear brakes back on.... Work In Progress- 71' Duster F.A.S.T.- 10.36@130 Smallblock Record Holder.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: XXHEMI] #218397 02/17/09 09:17 AM 02/17/09 09:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 58 Michigan J Joes6pk member
Joes6pk member J Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 58 Michigan	Ed Great looking '63 is that a white dodge I see in the background? Speaking of small blocks here's a pic of my sunday driver It's a '34 Plymouth with a 1970 340-6pk really a blast to drive 5031627-StreetRod_Barn.jpg (200 downloads) Last edited by Joes6pk; 02/17/09 09:20 AM.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: F1Scamp] #218398 02/17/09 09:22 AM 02/17/09 09:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,160 Texas dannysbee master
dannysbee master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,160 Texas	The 400 block is what I was using in my example they have a 3.75 stock stroke and will only except a 3.8 stroke crank. Any thing more than that and he is using a GM racing block (Bowtie) or after market block. No rear brakes I believe is a safty issue that should be addressed. Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: dannysbee] #218399 02/17/09 10:47 AM 02/17/09 10:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI DonnyBrass mopar
DonnyBrass mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI	Quote: The 400 block is what I was using in my example they have a 3.75 stock stroke and will only except a 3.8 stroke crank. Any thing more than that and he is using a GM racing block (Bowtie) or after market block. No rear brakes I believe is a safty issue that should be addressed. Danny, it can be done legally....... With Chevy blocks we are in somewhat of a better situation as far as block integrity goes. For the most part, factory Chevy blocks are good--at least for anything other than endurance racing (Cup car and the like) to power levels in the 700-800hp range. Find a thick 400 block or a regular Bow Tie block and bore sizes up to 4.185 are no problem. Once in a while a really thick one comes along that will go to as much as 4.250 on the bore. With a 4-inch stroke, that makes 454 inches, but that is almost certainly the limit for a stock-configuration small-block Chevy. To get even a 4-inch stroke into the block it is necessary to run a cam with a smaller base circle in order to provide clearance for the shoulders of the con rods. Chevy infiltrator 12.34 @ 109.45 with a 1.73 sixty foot Pure Stock

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: DonnyBrass] #218400 02/17/09 11:02 AM 02/17/09 11:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT C CJK440 master
CJK440 master C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT	Quote: 2.01 Engine block must appear to be a correct* original block How do you make a 400 cast with 3 freeze plug bosses per side look like an LT1 block that only had 2?? 2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: CJK440] #218401 02/17/09 01:05 PM 02/17/09 01:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI DonnyBrass mopar
DonnyBrass mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI	Rule 201 c. A correct* 327 Chevy can use a 350 or 400 block, if it appears externally correct, and is made from the correct material. I think this falls in the "upon a cursory visual inspection by someone reasonably familiar with the year, make and model claimed, it looks like a correct* part" My guess is that an extra freeze plug, a different shape accessory boss, a slightly different timing cover design, etc would not be considered out of spec for the rule. Chevy infiltrator 12.34 @ 109.45 with a 1.73 sixty foot Pure Stock

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: DonnyBrass] #218402 02/17/09 01:58 PM 02/17/09 01:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa S scatpacktom master
scatpacktom master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa	Danny what happened to the Max Wedge you were doing?

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: scatpacktom] #218403 02/17/09 03:21 PM 02/17/09 03:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI DonnyBrass mopar
DonnyBrass mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI	It runs 11.50's all day long at the Chrysler Classics events......... Oh, Danny... nevermind. I never worked on a Max Wedge car in my life...... Chevy infiltrator 12.34 @ 109.45 with a 1.73 sixty foot Pure Stock

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: DonnyBrass] #218404 02/17/09 03:30 PM 02/17/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Quote: Rule 201 c. A correct* 327 Chevy can use a 350 or 400 block, if it appears externally correct, and is made from the correct material. I think this falls in the "upon a cursory visual inspection by someone reasonably familiar with the year, make and model claimed, it looks like a correct* part" My guess is that an extra freeze plug, a different shape accessory boss, a slightly different timing cover design, etc would not be considered out of spec for the rule. This would also apply to a Mopar in the case of a 340 Restoration block which is a heavier duty casting (like 50lbs heavier too!). The casting number is correct/vintage but the sides of the block castings don't look the same in many areas. Or how about the guys running a mixture of correct and incorrect carburetors, head castings, and exhaust manifolds for the year/model car they run. Lot's of "Grey" in how the current FAST rules are interpreted or enforced.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #218405 02/17/09 04:08 PM 02/17/09 04:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	A 400 block would be able to go 4.185 with a decent sonic test. A 4 inch stroke can go in one with honda rod journals and small base circle cam. May be able to get a hair more stroke by measreing every thing real close, bore may get a hair bigger with a sleeve or hard block. As you can probably imagine the rod/stroke ratio is nice at that long of a stroke. I think in the spirit of the rules a 400 block should not be allowed same as a 340 resto block, but in the strict technical interpritation of the rules they are ok. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #218406 02/17/09 04:23 PM 02/17/09 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI DonnyBrass mopar
DonnyBrass mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI	Quote: This would also apply to a Mopar in the case of a 340 Restoration block which is a heavier duty casting (like 50lbs heavier too!). The casting number is correct/vintage but the sides of the block castings don't look the same in many areas. Or how about the guys running a mixture of correct and incorrect carburetors, head castings, and exhaust manifolds for the year/model car they run. Lot's of "Grey" in how the current FAST rules are interpreted or enforced. I would not say it does, but it may, the Hemi guys got the new block and heads........ but that is also written right in the rules... Chevy guys do not get bowtie blocks. Scott... I thought the cars were not teched hard until they ran 11.70, are you talking about cars that are faster than that ??? Last edited by DonnyBrass; 02/17/09 04:36 PM. Chevy infiltrator 12.34 @ 109.45 with a 1.73 sixty foot Pure Stock

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: DonnyBrass] #218407 02/17/09 04:25 PM 02/17/09 04:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT C CJK440 master
CJK440 master C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT	Who's running heads and exhaust manifolds that are not correct for the model & year? That and the intake manifold casting is pretty cut & dry in the rules. I don't see much grey there. 2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: CJK440] #218408 02/17/09 04:44 PM 02/17/09 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Who's doing it doesn't matter, they know who they are, and granted, you need to do something special in order to get inspected. I just feel sorry for the poor guy who builds a car with "questionable" parts, then does something special, then gets dissapointed when he gets thrown out. As many gains as we've been seeing it's bound to happen, probably sooner than later. Allot of guys take some of the rules pretty lightly, it'll be interesting to see what happens when someone does something special only to gets called on thier illegal parts.

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #218409 02/17/09 05:14 PM 02/17/09 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT C CJK440 master
CJK440 master C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT	Scott, I don't. If the part is questionable, the question should have been asked. If somebody spent a small fortune on the wrong casting heads and gets called on it, its their own doing. 2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: DonnyBrass] #218410 02/17/09 06:52 PM 02/17/09 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,964 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,964 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: This would also apply to a Mopar in the case of a 340 Restoration block which is a heavier duty casting (like 50lbs heavier too!). The casting number is correct/vintage but the sides of the block castings don't look the same in many areas. Or how about the guys running a mixture of correct and incorrect carburetors, head castings, and exhaust manifolds for the year/model car they run. Lot's of "Grey" in how the current FAST rules are interpreted or enforced. I would not say it does, but it may, the Hemi guys got the new block and heads........ but that is also written right in the rules... Chevy guys do not get bowtie blocks. Scott... I thought the cars were not teched hard until they ran 11.70, are you talking about cars that are faster than that ??? Hemi guys get the new blocks , ONLY the water blocks which are HEAVIER than stock , same for the heads and as far as i know no one is running the new heads because of the extra weight , which i believe is about DOUBLE .... and the reason why is you won't get many takers paying the RANSOME ORIGINAL Hemi blocks COMMAND . Big block chevy bowtie , raised decks ??? Aren't they ONLY siamese bore ? The rule was as soon as you run an 11.70 things get strict , I wonder if that will relax some now that to be competitive you need to run better than 11.teens , soon better than 11.00 ???

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: CJK440] #218411 02/17/09 06:55 PM 02/17/09 06:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,964 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,964 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Scott, I don't. If the part is questionable, the question should have been asked. If somebody spent a small fortune on the wrong casting heads and gets called on it, its their own doing. Exactly and 2 X heavy hitters paid the price ...

Re: Why no MW cars racing in FAST? [Re: JohnRR] #218412 02/17/09 07:35 PM 02/17/09 07:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI DonnyBrass mopar
DonnyBrass mopar Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 490 St Clair Shores, MI	Quote: Exactly and 2 X heavy hitters paid the price ... not sure what you are implying... if they were heavy hitters, they should have known the rules...... only makes sense. Chevy infiltrator 12.34 @ 109.45 with a 1.73 sixty foot Pure Stock

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