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what ratio manual steering box for handling? #2147677 09/04/16 11:54 PM 09/04/16 11:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne B buconine OP enthusiast
buconine OP enthusiast B Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne	Looking at redoing the front end this winter and i don't think the stock steering box is going to suit my needs. I was looking at the 16:1 box on firm feel with quick ratio idler and pitman arms. I know power steering would be best but a rb a body with headers is a tight enough squeeze as it is. Thanks for your opinions.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2147679 09/05/16 12:01 AM 09/05/16 12:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Yikes! 16:1 with quick ratio idler and pitman arms on a manual box and wide tires? You sound like Hercules. Are Scheumaker Tri-Y's out of the question? I know they'll allow enough room for PS and quick ratio pitman/idler's; however, I think they're only good for about 500 hp or something. http://www.engine-swaps.com/Pages/ProductsType/BRB_Headers.html

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2147700 09/05/16 12:36 AM 09/05/16 12:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne B buconine OP enthusiast
buconine OP enthusiast B Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne	tri y's are in the plans. It is just a tin headed 440. would the fast ratio arms on the current box be worth the effort? The current box was new when i bought the car. Kinda on a tight budget and can't really swing a p/s setup right now. Car will be run with 275/35r18 tires up front.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2147711 09/05/16 12:52 AM 09/05/16 12:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Depends... How do they fit with the exhaust? I have no idea. But the stock manual box is 24:1 so you'll be getting a workout trying to make turns. Parallel parking will be a bare.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148025 09/05/16 03:08 PM 09/05/16 03:08 PM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 701 Northern California lilcuda super stock
lilcuda super stock Joined: May 2007 Posts: 701 Northern California	I had a factory 16:1 manual box in my 66 Barracuda with a 340. It was a bit tough to park. Once you were moving, it wasn't too bad. But with a big block AND fast ratio arms with those tires? Good luck, unless you are REALLY strong. Don't try a 24:1 box for handling. You will be disappointed. They are about 4.5 turns lock to lock and just way too slow for a handling car. I tried it. '67 is an abbreviation of 1967 67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet They are not interchangeable.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148082 09/05/16 04:29 PM 09/05/16 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne B buconine OP enthusiast
buconine OP enthusiast B Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne	so 16:1 box would probably be the best out of the possible scenarios? I'm not worried about parking, the car will mainly be used for autox and cruise nights. I've raced it with the current box and 235/60r14 tires without issues but they were both pretty open courses and that is half the tire that will be on it.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148107 09/05/16 04:58 PM 09/05/16 04:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Highly recommend biting the bullet on a Borgeson box, it isnt much more than what you already are planning. The manual box will get you way "behind" in the cones. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148124 09/05/16 05:09 PM 09/05/16 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne B buconine OP enthusiast
buconine OP enthusiast B Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne	what do i have to do to the column to go power steering?

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148176 09/05/16 06:51 PM 09/05/16 06:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Simplest method is getting Bergmanns adapter coupler and your steering shaft will collapse in itself, plus I also have an extra column shaft if you want it. I actually have an entire floor shift column already setup to. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148214 09/05/16 07:49 PM 09/05/16 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne B buconine OP enthusiast
buconine OP enthusiast B Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne	$1200 to do the p/s conversion + the cost of a column. I'm going to have to suffer with manual for awhile. For that kind of money i'll have to research the electric power steering conversion and go rack and pinion. Guess i'll get the disc/bbp conversion done and see how bad it is. I don't have the budget to ever be a national contender anyway. Nationals cam t cars are insane...

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148392 09/05/16 11:05 PM 09/05/16 11:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	No I agree, those big checkbook guys get all sorts of bent out of shape when I suggest a 275 tire limit rule or class. "Those tires dont look right on my Camaro whaaaa whaaa....." no you just know if everyone was on the same tire you would get spanked. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2148593 09/06/16 06:13 AM 09/06/16 06:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,165 Florida C cataclysm80 master
cataclysm80 master C Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,165 Florida	Originally Posted By buconine I was looking at the 16:1 box on firm feel with quick ratio idler and pitman arms. Can you put the fast ratio power steering pitman arm onto a manual steering box? I never tried, I guess it hadn't occurred to me. The fast ratio pitman changes a 16:1 box into a 12:1 ratio. Here's the steering ratios on some modern vehicles to give you something to compare against. 2011 Challengers have a 14.4:1 steering ratio with 2.75 turns lock to lock 2014 Camaros have 16.1:1 ratio with 2.5 turns lock to lock 2015 Mustangs have a 16:1 ratio 1988 Mustangs have 15:1 Neon’s are 16:1. Tav

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: cataclysm80] #2149205 09/06/16 10:32 PM 09/06/16 10:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington	Originally Posted By cataclysm80 Originally Posted By buconine I was looking at the 16:1 box on firm feel with quick ratio idler and pitman arms. Can you put the fast ratio power steering pitman arm onto a manual steering box? I never tried, I guess it hadn't occurred to me. The fast ratio pitman changes a 16:1 box into a 12:1 ratio. Here's the steering ratios on some modern vehicles to give you something to compare against. 2011 Challengers have a 14.4:1 steering ratio with 2.75 turns lock to lock 2014 Camaros have 16.1:1 ratio with 2.5 turns lock to lock 2015 Mustangs have a 16:1 ratio 1988 Mustangs have 15:1 Neon’s are 16:1. Tav Question: Regarding your Challenger and Camaro examples...since the ratio of the Challenger is faster, yet the LTL is slower, doesn't that mean the Challenger is actually turning the wheels at a more extreme angle at lock?

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2149225 09/06/16 10:51 PM 09/06/16 10:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda Originally Posted By cataclysm80 Originally Posted By buconine I was looking at the 16:1 box on firm feel with quick ratio idler and pitman arms. Can you put the fast ratio power steering pitman arm onto a manual steering box? I never tried, I guess it hadn't occurred to me. The fast ratio pitman changes a 16:1 box into a 12:1 ratio. Here's the steering ratios on some modern vehicles to give you something to compare against. 2011 Challengers have a 14.4:1 steering ratio with 2.75 turns lock to lock 2014 Camaros have 16.1:1 ratio with 2.5 turns lock to lock 2015 Mustangs have a 16:1 ratio 1988 Mustangs have 15:1 Neon’s are 16:1. Tav Question: Regarding your Challenger and Camaro examples...since the ratio of the Challenger is faster, yet the LTL is slower, doesn't that mean the Challenger is actually turning the wheels at a more extreme angle at lock? depends on the length of the steering arms at the knuckles, if the Challengers are longer than the Camaro then no. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2149259 09/06/16 11:46 PM 09/06/16 11:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne B buconine OP enthusiast
buconine OP enthusiast B Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 216 omahell, ne	gotta say if i could make my valiant turn like my scat pack, i'd die a happy man. I was giggled at in grid at nationals but several people came up to me during the event shocked how well that monster handled.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2154633 09/14/16 08:29 PM 09/14/16 08:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,954 Blairsden, CA T Triggerfish top fuel
Triggerfish top fuel T Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,954 Blairsden, CA	I'm following your post to help me make the best decision for my 64 Belvedere. I agree that 16:1 takes too much arm strength & just talked to Dick at Firm Feel about a 20:1 manual box with the stock pitman arm for my 64 Belvedere & he said it would be a good set up. Still am deciding between a stage 3 power box upgrade or to have them do a 20:1 setup in a manual box I have. Forgot to ask him about the 20:1 box with the fast ration pitman, so will call him tomorrow.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2154780 09/14/16 11:21 PM 09/14/16 11:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot Skeptic master
Skeptic master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot	I drove my P/S 68 Barracuda with no pump for quite a while, trying to find a good one. Iron head small block with 255/50-17s. Not the easiest thing to drive, but unless you are spending most of you time in crowded parking lots quite livable. I've got a 20:1 manual box now and I'm curious to see how it drives and what the actual weight is with the Eddie headed B engine.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2163393 09/28/16 02:05 AM 09/28/16 02:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,481 Outside thedriver pro stock
thedriver pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,481 Outside	I have a 16:1 flaming river box in my challenger. It's a beast when trying to turn from parking spot, it's not for everyone that's for sure. It does change lanes at highway speed with little effort and a flick of the wrist. If I had to do it again, I would look for a 20:1 box, I think that's what the quick ratio was from the factory. The 16:1 box is kinda for the old corvette"like" lightweight car, small block handling car. I enjoyed the stock 24:1 box I had on a duster once. But I agree it's too much for performance 1973 challenger Dana. 4 speed. Low deck.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: thedriver] #2163628 09/28/16 01:26 PM 09/28/16 01:26 PM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 701 Northern California lilcuda super stock
lilcuda super stock Joined: May 2007 Posts: 701 Northern California	Originally Posted By thedriver I have a 16:1 flaming river box in my challenger. It's a beast when trying to turn from parking spot, it's not for everyone that's for sure. It does change lanes at highway speed with little effort and a flick of the wrist. If I had to do it again, I would look for a 20:1 box, I think that's what the quick ratio was from the factory. The 16:1 box is kinda for the old corvette"like" lightweight car, small block handling car. I enjoyed the stock 24:1 box I had on a duster once. But I agree it's too much for performance The quick ratio box from the factory was 16:1. The 20:1 was a DC/Mopar Performance part that you could buy separately to install in your 24:1 box. 16:1 works well for an early A body, although it is a bit tough to park. '67 is an abbreviation of 1967 67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet They are not interchangeable.

Re: what ratio manual steering box for handling? [Re: buconine] #2163966 09/28/16 10:39 PM 09/28/16 10:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	I can't imagine the effort was more than my 64 300 when it's power steering pump seized and I drove it for three years without power steering. It had fat meats front and rear too. So any complains about low speed or parking effort makes me scratch my head especially when you consider the alignment specs for a manual car are different to help make it easier to steer at low speeds, though that's not really applicable in this forum I would hope. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

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