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#22330 - 03/29/06 07:51 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

i just read about the penetrol stuff, funny about the spontanious combustion!!!!! that actually made me laugh out loud...




It might be funny, but I can assure you it's a real hazard, I've seen it happen. My wife and I were refinishing some old wood furniture, and I had a stain soaked rag that was left out in the sun. I smelt something funny, turned around and the rag was smoldering - as in SMOKE coming from it! Sure enough, it was on the verge of igniting, it was hot to the touch and I had to dowse it with water to put it out. A word to the wise, dont leave that "stuff" out in the sun, and as they recommend, dispose of it in a bucket of water!

Poorbugr's photos are definitely compelling, enough to warrent a side by side test IMO. Next time I'm at the "Depot", I'm definitely gonna take a look to see if they have any, to compare it with using mineral spirits. Poorbugr, just outta curiousity - what did you pay for the Penetrol?

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#22331 - 03/29/06 09:03 PM Re: paint job on a budget!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here are some day shots from today. Mayb they'll do more justice.
NOTE: I havent wetsanded yet, and by the way. This has only been 24 HOURS AND THE PAINT IT SCRATCH PROOF, LITERALLY, i've been trying to scratch it with some strength with no scratch. I think i might b onto something.
Just gotta get the damn bubbles out and get the right shine.





Edited by bakuryu (03/29/06 09:03 PM)

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#22332 - 03/29/06 09:37 PM Re: paint job on a budget!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

ok i went to homedepot and asked if they would tint tremclad and they refused...anyone else have the same problem? anyone know of a place else where that would do it (in toronto) or could u just get the white gloss and mix paint in there to get a desired color? =\ thanks




Go to Canadian Tire, they now have tintable base. You have around 80 colors to choose from. The one here in Victoria didn't know what I was talking about untill I walked up to the counter with a gallon of the base and said I want this color.

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#22333 - 03/30/06 05:26 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bakuryu - if you think of it, take a close up photo of the bubbles. It's kinda hard to tell from the daytime shots whether it's bubbles or something else stuck to the paint. Otherwise, I think it's coming along nicely. Be forewarned before you get to the final stage though... when you do the final wetsanding, use the finest grade paper you can find, like 2000, to get the surface as smooth as possible before you begin buffing it out. The buffing process is gonna take lots of time, LOTS of time if you're using an ordinary cheapo orbital waxer/buffer. It does work, but it's gonna make the paint process feel like it was absolutely rapid fire in comparison.

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#22334 - 03/30/06 05:57 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


New here, like a lot of you guys, i heard of this page from another msg board. i have a 93 diamante and it had real bad

case of "sunburn" thnx to the fla sun. I want to paint the whole car gloss black, like 69charger black beetle.

just a couple of questions before i start.

What are the exact materials I can get from Home Depot?


As for mixing mineral spirits and the paint each day for coating.

would it be better if you..

take 1 container for the whole project, dump all the paint you need in it, and keep adding miniral spirits each time you

use it?

or

take 1 container, dump the amount of paint for 2 coats and add mineral spirts in it for the time you going to use it for.

I already have the paint, but i need to know what brushes i should buy
(please list in detail)

What i gather from this thread the steps seem to be

Prep the vehicle
- do i wetsand the car first?

- wash car (soap and water)

- get cloth and soak it in mineral spirts and apply all over the areas you are going to paint

- roll on paint
--------do I let it dry after painting or start wetsanding after i finish painting?
-------- what grit do i use for the whole project?
-------- how much pressure should i be using for wetsanding?

In short, can anyone put step by step instructions please?

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#22335 - 03/30/06 08:05 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
Quote:


In short, can anyone put step by step instructions please?




someone has put it into instructions, read this :

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...93ec07bbb2de5a6

hope that helps, good luck

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#22336 - 03/30/06 09:02 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:


In short, can anyone put step by step instructions please?




someone has put it into instructions, read this :

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...93ec07bbb2de5a6

hope that helps, good luck





I need help :S, i dont think i'm doing it right. First two coats i got alot of bubbles and now that its dry it doesnt look too bad. BUt i just started wetsanding and boy its turning out DISGUSTING! Paint is thinning and i can see the original red/body. I'm slightly wetting the 600grit sandpaper and well with not too much pressure with a block, in a circular motion sanding it. Its coming smooth but it has like small circles (Not holes but like white circles) all over the body which other wise shines up when i whipe it with a mineral-spirited rag. Now i have spots on the car where the paint wasnt thick enough back to its original color which was the sanded down red of the buddha civic.

Should i keep going with the wetsanding cuz i only did the driver side.

HERE are some pics, HELP! I'm also considering just painting the car white cuz i have a large gallon of the professional white color. ARGHHH this is aggrivating.









Edited by bakuryu (03/30/06 09:03 AM)

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#22337 - 03/30/06 09:24 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
you have alot of orange peel, probally from applying the paint on too thick, resist the urge to apply thick coats, you should only see full coverage to where you can't see the original color until you finish the 3rd or 4th coat. i suggest you sand it until it's totally smooth, wetsand using 400 to make it go faster, when it's smooth like silk, it will look flat, like velvet, then do your next coat, really thin coats, make the paint thin, mix it alot, skim the paint in the tray with a towel paper to get rid of bubbles. i see you still have dents in your pics, you maybe should have fixed them before you painted as they will look like a eyesore when youre all done. unless your car is just a beater??????

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#22338 - 03/30/06 09:32 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

you have alot of orange peel, probally from applying the paint on too thick, resist the urge to apply thick coats, you should only see full coverage to where you can't see the original color until you finish the 3rd or 4th coat. i suggest you sand it until it's totally smooth, wetsand using 400 to make it go faster, when it's smooth like silk, it will look flat, like velvet, then do your next coat, really thin coats, make the paint thin, mix it alot, skim the paint in the tray with a towel paper to get rid of bubbles. i see you still have dents in your pics, you maybe should have fixed them before you painted as they will look like a eyesore when youre all done. unless your car is just a beater??????




YEa i dont care bout the dent, i tried pulling it out with like a small popout things, but since it soo close to the molding it wouldn't stick correctly and pull so i said F'it lol. It is somewhat a beater, hence i'm trying this whole crazy method on this car lol. those small circle white spots r orange peels? LOL i thought orange peels would look like, well orange hahahaahaha, if ur talking about the red spots thats just the paint underneath. Also one of the cans i refrigirated, ijust opened it and it has 0 BUBBLES IN IT!! So hopefully the next coats wont have any bubbles?

Another question charger, How did you exactly wetsand? AM i doing it correct?

Another question lol, Can i wetsand the car with the palm sander so its goes faster? And what happenes to the spots that are too thin right now and will pretty much fade to the original color. It will look like cow spots again. Then wont the next coats be too thin there compared to the others?


Edited by bakuryu (03/30/06 09:35 AM)

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#22339 - 03/30/06 09:46 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
Quote:



YEa i dont care bout the dent, i tried pulling it out with like a small popout things, but since it soo close to the molding it wouldn't stick correctly and pull so i said F'it lol. It is somewhat a beater, hence i'm trying this whole crazy method on this car lol. those small circle white spots r orange peels? LOL i thought orange peels would look like, well orange hahahaahaha, if ur talking about the red spots thats just the paint underneath. Also one of the cans i refrigirated, ijust opened it and it has 0 BUBBLES IN IT!! So hopefully the next coats wont have any bubbles?

Another question charger, How did you exactly wetsand? AM i doing it correct?

Another question lol, Can i wetsand the car with the palm sander so its goes faster? And what happenes to the spots that are too thin right now and will pretty much fade to the original color. It will look like cow spots again. Then wont the next coats be too thin there compared to the others?




take the sand paper, wet in a bucket of water, get a spray bottle, fill it with water, spray the area, sand, add water, and rinse the paper often, i'd do it by hand, use 400 or so to speed it up, you'll probally burn out a palmsander getting it wet, and maybe a nice shock!!!. don't use a block, just by hand. and the orange peel is refering to the texture of the peel, not the color, just keep sanding, until smooth, and it all looks flat like velvet, then continue painting, but this is why i allways said, expirement FIRST, on just the hood, so you don't create more work for yourself.

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#22340 - 03/30/06 10:07 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


could u do this on carbon fiber? like say i had a carbon fiber hood and i wanted to paint it but leaving a stripe in the middle (of carbon fiber) but like would i have to sand the clear coats off first or wah?

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#22341 - 03/30/06 10:13 AM Re: paint job on a budget!?
GTSDave Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3012
Loc: Richmond, Tx. (Houston)
Looks like you are on the right track,

From the picture showing the area just above the side window, it looks like finger marks in the sanding pattern.

MAKE SURE YOU USE A SANDING BLOCK! Use the rubber sanding blocks that can be found at Wal Mart. You can usually find pre cut paper in 1000 and 2000 grit there too. I usually pick mine up in the spray paint section. I have at 2 different Wal Marts.

For the areas that are too round to use the sanding block, use a sponge. I use some small sponges that I buy at the auto paint store. They are about the same size as a sanding block but only a 1/4 “ thick. I fold the paper over the ends then fold it in half. That way it holds my paper and I can bend it around odd shapes. The whole reason for this is the flatter you can get the wet sanding the better it will come out. If you have groves from your fingers on the back side of the paper, it will show up as ripples even after you buff it.

I would be using a softer grit of paper. I prefer to use 1000, then 2000 then buff. For yours since you still have more coats of paint to go, I would use the 600, then re-coat it, then go to the 1000, and finally 2000 and buff.

Your goal at this point is to get the orange peel out of it. That can only be done by water sanding and taking your time. You want it to come out dull with no shiny spots. Each little shiny spot is a low spot. Once those low spots are out, you will re-apply your paint and it will be MUCH flatter, and easier to get a good shine when buffing.

I never use anything rougher than 1000 on a final coat. It would be too hard to buff it out. I try to use the 2000 for all of it, but if the orange peel is too bad, I use 1000 then the 2000 then buff.

For those that don’t thing they can get the full shine back after wet sanding, they probably used paper that was too rough.

Keep in mind I spray automotive finishes on my cars, but the enamel you guys are using will shine as good as any enamel if it is buffed properly. It took me a while to learn to use a buffer correctly, but now my results are fantastic! I use McGuire’s Diamond Cut to get the water sanding paper marks out, and then follow up with some of the hand glaze.

Polishing with a buffer is the same as sanding; you are just using liquid for the abrasive. Compounds come in different “Grits” as well. I always use foam pads on my buffer. I also use a different pad for different compounds. I NEVER reuse a pad with a different “Grit” compound.

OH and use Straight strokes not circles while wet sanding.

-Dave
_________________________
PLEASE Pray for our brothers and sisters in harms way.

GTS Registry

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#22342 - 03/30/06 10:14 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: GTSDave]
GTSDave Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3012
Loc: Richmond, Tx. (Houston)
This is with my base clear paint after wet sanding with 2000 grit and a rubber block. I had a LOT of orange peel on the deck lid, and wet sanded it out.

-Dave



Attachments
2515556-20050408.jpg (329 downloads)



Edited by GTSDave (03/30/06 10:15 AM)
_________________________
PLEASE Pray for our brothers and sisters in harms way.

GTS Registry

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#22343 - 03/30/06 10:16 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: GTSDave]
GTSDave Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3012
Loc: Richmond, Tx. (Houston)
This is the end result after buffing with the Diamond cut and a foam pad. I then followed it up with a hand galze. I painted this car in my garage with a base clear paint system. I have been painting cars since I was 16, so I already had lots of equipment. I did spend about $1k for materials and lots of hours of labor.

The point I am trying to make is with your roll on method, you can get good results! You have to make sure your surface prep is good, and take your time. Getting it thin enough to be able to work it without the bubbles will save you lots of time later during the wet sanding. Once you have a good coat of paint on it then wet sand with fine paper and buff the heck out of it. You WILL get a great shine.

-Dave



Attachments
2515560-20050731GTS024.jpg (288 downloads)

_________________________
PLEASE Pray for our brothers and sisters in harms way.

GTS Registry

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#22344 - 03/30/06 10:27 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: GTSDave]
moper Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 12656
Loc: Columbia, CT
The best wet sanding results will come from not using your fiongers..Always use a soft block..I use foam roll bar padding for concave curved contours and a std rubber sanding block for flat panels. Larger convex curves I use a peice of havey rubbr, slit so it conforms easy to the body as you move it. Lots of water..a few drops of dishwashing soap in it will help a lot. Replace the paper often, and go like they said, until all you see is flat grey. Dont worry about the color coming thru just yet..This method is labor intensive, you'll be sanding a rolling a lot from what I have read. I usually wet sand primer, then spray all the coats of color..then wet sand again, do any graphics, then spray clear, wet sand that, and buff. So even doing it "the old fashioned way " takes a bit of effort. Probably what drives all the body men to be criminals..

Almost forgot..If you drop you paper, block, or sponge (to dribble the water over the surface...), dont rinse it off in the bucket with your sanding water..Sounds stupid, but you'll end up sanding with gravel from the pavement if you dont be careful...


Edited by moper (03/30/06 10:29 AM)

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#22345 - 03/30/06 10:57 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: GTSDave]
Exit1965 Offline
master

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 3195
Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA
Quote:

You WILL get a great shine.

-Dave






Ok, I've already got a mostly done test area. You said above that the grit I used was too rough and that took a lot of the shine away.. it was 1500 grit.

So- if I wipe off the polish and wax I put on it, get 2000 grit and wetsand, then buff, it should shine eh?

I'm willing to give it a shot, it will not take much more work on that little area I'm using if you think it's got a chance of making it shine at anything other than an angle - it does that fine:


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#22346 - 03/30/06 11:02 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: Exit1965]
GTSDave Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3012
Loc: Richmond, Tx. (Houston)
Dont wet sand it again. You already have a shine started. What you need to do is buff it more. Use a finer grit of compound. Or even a swirl mark remover. The thing that takes away the sine is micro scratches in the finsh. Use a finer grit to remove those scratches.

-Dave
_________________________
PLEASE Pray for our brothers and sisters in harms way.

GTS Registry

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#22347 - 03/30/06 11:05 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: GTSDave]
Exit1965 Offline
master

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 3195
Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA
Dave, where can I get this Diamond Cut stuff?

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#22348 - 03/30/06 11:10 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: GTSDave]
Exit1965 Offline
master

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 3195
Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA
Quote:

Dont wet sand it again. You already have a shine started. What you need to do is buff it more. Use a finer grit of compound. Or even a swirl mark remover. The thing that takes away the sine is micro scratches in the finsh. Use a finer grit to remove those scratches.

-Dave




Yes, when I look at it head on I can see those tiny scratches you talk about. Perhaps I'll get my roller off the place I hung it up from.

I'll try this tonight if I can get my hands on those fine compounds you talk about. I assume this stuff could be applied by hand, right? I might want to try it by hand on this small area to see if it works, then if I need to do a large surface I can practice with the random orbital machine.

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#22349 - 03/30/06 11:13 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: Exit1965]
KGorney Offline
top fuel

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1747
Loc: Sanbornville,NH
I just ordered a case of Rustoleum Stop Rust Enamal protective paint. (It is ordered by the case in 4 - 1QT cans. Or spray or 1/2 pints)
Home Depot, at least here, can order other colors besided what they carry in stock. I wanted Harbor Blue since it is identical to the factory B1 blue on the Duster now (mostly). I didn't want to have it mixed in store because of the bubbles. Also, I don't know if the dyes they add would affect the paint composition negatively.
I didn't see any Penetrol product though. Poorbugr, did you pick yours up at Home Depot? I'd like to try the Penetrol method if that is really the difference that gives it the adhesion and deep gloss.

Here is the company website for Penetrol (and Floetrol)
http://www.flood.com/Flood/Products/Exterior/PaintAdditives/
Is this the product you used? it appears to be made for thinning oil-based house paint.

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