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Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #22290
03/27/06 12:45 PM
03/27/06 12:45 PM

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21 Pages!! Woohoo!!
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well the fenders were allready painted when i got the car, it was a 20yr old single stage paint job, i just prepped the body, did the body work and painted right over the old paint. if your getting new fiberglass, i'd definetly prep it by sanding with 400 grit sand paper dry, not wet, then just paint as usual. that paint really sticks to fiberglass, i've painted my sail boat with it years ago, it lives outside still looks great. also when you sand the fiberglass, be sure you don't have any shiny spots from the gelcoat, only sand enough to get it dull, on fiberglass espically don't use any primer, there's no need. just sand and clean using mineral spirits, tremclad works amazing on fiberglass.



Thanks for the info... I had a feeling that the porous nature of the glass would "suck up" the paint pretty good.

On the other discussion, I am interested in this process so I won't be scared to drive my car. If I drop a couple grand on the spray job at the local body shop, I'll be a bundle of nerves and not drive this little beast the way it's meant to be driven. I plan on taking it on the beach, on trails, etc... I think it will be a economical to not only complete, but also to maintain when the scratches and chips come our way. Just my

I enjoy how it's opened up some barriers between enthusiasts of different kinds of cars with the same painting dilemma. Charger gets my Peace Prize vote.

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22291
03/27/06 01:38 PM
03/27/06 01:38 PM

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No worries about the expensive rollers, I went to lowes and grabbed the 5 pack and the roller attachment (that also had a roller on it) for a total of 6 for about $12.

Gonna try and hit up a test area tonight if I can scrap up the time.

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22292
03/27/06 03:54 PM
03/27/06 03:54 PM

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My white paint has had a month to cure and still scrapes off. There is no way this stuff will hold up to normal driving, so I'm going to have to sand it all off and try again.

Rustoleum says that there is no difference between California paints and other paints, they also say there is minimal difference in tremclad, but nothing that would make it less scratch resistant. Their tech claims that it scratches off of the surface because it hasn't cured fully (month is more than enough he says), or the surface wasn't prepped properly (they say no more than 120grit. He also said that even if the paint wasn't compatible with the primer or paint underneath it, as long as it was sanded with 120 or less, then it should bond and not scrape off.

I sanded mine with 80-100-150 before paint and gave it a month to dry. There is no difference in hardness in 1 week vs 1 month from what I can tell.

I'll try the professional paint and see how that goes, although he said the onyl difference is how fast it dries.

If everything else is the same which is better? #22293
03/27/06 04:09 PM
03/27/06 04:09 PM

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for this task, Rustoleum pro or tractor paint?

Both offer the color I want, but I've seen a few folks suggest just going with tractor paint, so figured I better ask.

Is there going to be a hoot's worth of difference?

thanks!

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22294
03/27/06 05:06 PM
03/27/06 05:06 PM
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Quote:

My white paint has had a month to cure and still scrapes off. There is no way this stuff will hold up to normal driving, so I'm going to have to sand it all off and try again.

Rustoleum says that there is no difference between California paints and other paints, they also say there is minimal difference in tremclad, but nothing that would make it less scratch resistant. Their tech claims that it scratches off of the surface because it hasn't cured fully (month is more than enough he says), or the surface wasn't prepped properly (they say no more than 120grit. He also said that even if the paint wasn't compatible with the primer or paint underneath it, as long as it was sanded with 120 or less, then it should bond and not scrape off.

I sanded mine with 80-100-150 before paint and gave it a month to dry. There is no difference in hardness in 1 week vs 1 month from what I can tell.

I'll try the professional paint and see how that goes, although he said the onyl difference is how fast it dries.




That's too bad Jagd. I would think that sanding with nothing finer than 120 would leave a very poor looking surface on a car. The 1st pro. test area I did, I can put a scratch into it if I push hard, but can't scrape it off. That's been over a month drying.

There are still a couple more weeks of 70+ degree temps for it to cure, then I'll give it a final scratch test and go from there. As long as I'm doing a good job on the bodywork, I have to say it's crossed my mind to shell out the 500 and have Miracle or Maaco shoot it with a single stage and not have to worry about scratches or shine.

This morning while walking my dog, I met a neighbor of mine with a few mopars, and one was a 67 Satellite or Belvedere that he just had painted with a BC/CC job, around 5 grand with a fair amount of bodywork. It sure looked sweet, and the shine on that thing is making me reconsider rolling my car with Rustoleum- I know a 500 Maaco/Miracle job isn't going to look as good as BC/CC but it would be closer than rustoleum in my personal experience..




Last edited by Exit1965; 03/27/06 05:07 PM.
Re: paint job on a budget!? #22295
03/27/06 05:59 PM
03/27/06 05:59 PM

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Quote:

Moper, I think your point is taken well. I agree with you somewhat on your reservations, but I think there are quite a few here that are taking up the roller in one manner or another here already, myself included. To be honest, I think many have undertaken this with thier own doubts, but for me personally, they were no greater doubts than had I picked up a spray gun and tried to paint a car with no experience. I can promise this, just as in spraying a car, there is definitely an "art" to using this method of painting, and for anyone to expect it to come out perfectly the first time around is foolish, same as if they spray a car for the first time. I'm actually glad to see so many "testing" this method out first, trying it on test panels, doors, and even as in my case, a refridgerator. I learned enough to believe it can be done, also enough to see that the results will look perfectly acceptable on a car. I, however, am not ready for that step yet 1. because the car is not ready, and 2. I need to practice more before I'M ready, at least to get the results I'd like to see on my car.
I would strongly suggest to anyone who's interested in this idea of roller painting to try it out, test if you will, before going gangbusters on a full car simply because I think if they don't, they will be dissapointed in the results. There is alot to learn, and seeing photos is just not enough. 69Charger is absolutely right when he says this is a great method for those who want a decent paint job on a budget. Period. Yes, you will get better results with a high quality spray job, but many of us just don't have that kind of budget to work with. JMHO




LOL...hahahaha...man.

Woke up at 7:30 AM this morning. Took my fully sanded cleaned up (the given name by this board) "Budda Civic" to my friends garage a few miles down the road.

Note: I never painted a test piece cuz i dont have a spare fender, trunk, door, metal piece, or a beer fridge to test on, Sad but true. Probably the main reason i didnt test on an object is cuz i'm dirt poor and dont wanna waste any ahahaha, and that i couldnt find anything: P

As of right now i have the first coat done completely on the car. And yes, i have run into 1 Big problem: BUBBLES! FREAKIN EVERYWHERE. LOL very tiny ones though i puff and they are gone. Other than that the paint; I got a tint of Metropolital which is liek charcoal/gray black. Very nice color, is really nice and smooth.

Now, I have a question. I have 4 cans of this paint. Only used about half for the first coat. I Opened every can and each one has bubbles in them. I Mix and i Mix and mix but they dont seem to wanna go away. THinning it with mineral spirits is just making them smaller but more of them. I know i have the right paint, but mad bubbles. I forgot to take my digital camera to his house, but i will be going tonight again for the second coat and will snap some pics of the paint and the car.


I HOPE IT TURNS OUT GOOD :P Wish me Luck. Will post pics tonight.

Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: Exit1965] #22296
03/27/06 06:05 PM
03/27/06 06:05 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

My white paint has had a month to cure and still scrapes off. There is no way this stuff will hold up to normal driving, so I'm going to have to sand it all off and try again.

Rustoleum says that there is no difference between California paints and other paints, they also say there is minimal difference in tremclad, but nothing that would make it less scratch resistant. Their tech claims that it scratches off of the surface because it hasn't cured fully (month is more than enough he says), or the surface wasn't prepped properly (they say no more than 120grit. He also said that even if the paint wasn't compatible with the primer or paint underneath it, as long as it was sanded with 120 or less, then it should bond and not scrape off.

I sanded mine with 80-100-150 before paint and gave it a month to dry. There is no difference in hardness in 1 week vs 1 month from what I can tell.

I'll try the professional paint and see how that goes, although he said the onyl difference is how fast it dries.




That's too bad Jagd. I would think that sanding with nothing finer than 120 would leave a very poor looking surface on a car. The 1st pro. test area I did, I can put a scratch into it if I push hard, but can't scrape it off. That's been over a month drying.

There are still a couple more weeks of 70+ degree temps for it to cure, then I'll give it a final scratch test and go from there. As long as I'm doing a good job on the bodywork, I have to say it's crossed my mind to shell out the 500 and have Miracle or Maaco shoot it with a single stage and not have to worry about scratches or shine.

This morning while walking my dog, I met a neighbor of mine with a few mopars, and one was a 67 Satellite or Belvedere that he just had painted with a BC/CC job, around 5 grand with a fair amount of bodywork. It sure looked sweet, and the shine on that thing is making me reconsider rolling my car with Rustoleum- I know a 500 Maaco/Miracle job isn't going to look as good as BC/CC but it would be closer than rustoleum in my personal experience..








Well, i dunno man, i'm too far into to stop. I'm gonna finish this and see how it turns out. If its bad then i'll just sand it down again and have MAACO do a worse job. Some maacos not all, but i think the one around my area is pretty lame. And i aint dishin out 1 GRAND plus for a paint job.

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22297
03/27/06 08:57 PM
03/27/06 08:57 PM

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might be worth it to have a place like macco spray some clear over the roller job if shinyness is a concern.

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22298
03/27/06 09:03 PM
03/27/06 09:03 PM

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Also, probibly dumb question but I can't find wetsand sandpaper below 600. Any recommendations where to get it, anyone used a multipurpose/non wood sandpaper (but not neccessary wetsand)?

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22299
03/27/06 10:16 PM
03/27/06 10:16 PM

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Pep Boys, Kragen, or any auto parts store has sand paper in grits higher than 600 (all of the local ones here go as high as 3000).

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22300
03/27/06 10:54 PM
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Quote:

LOL...hahahaha...man.

Woke up at 7:30 AM this morning. Took my fully sanded cleaned up (the given name by this board) "Budda Civic" to my friends garage a few miles down the road.

Note: I never painted a test piece cuz i dont have a spare fender, trunk, door, metal piece, or a beer fridge to test on, Sad but true. Probably the main reason i didnt test on an object is cuz i'm dirt poor and dont wanna waste any ahahaha, and that i couldnt find anything: P

As of right now i have the first coat done completely on the car. And yes, i have run into 1 Big problem: BUBBLES! FREAKIN EVERYWHERE. LOL very tiny ones though i puff and they are gone. Other than that the paint; I got a tint of Metropolital which is liek charcoal/gray black. Very nice color, is really nice and smooth.

Now, I have a question. I have 4 cans of this paint. Only used about half for the first coat. I Opened every can and each one has bubbles in them. I Mix and i Mix and mix but they dont seem to wanna go away. THinning it with mineral spirits is just making them smaller but more of them. I know i have the right paint, but mad bubbles. I forgot to take my digital camera to his house, but i will be going tonight again for the second coat and will snap some pics of the paint and the car.


I HOPE IT TURNS OUT GOOD :P Wish me Luck. Will post pics tonight.




Hehe, I hope you realize it wasn't meant to burst your...bubble (sorry). Actually, I think you already HAVE the perfect test piece! Let's be honest here, even if it only comes out looking like a quickie, cheapo paint job, it'll STILL look better than before! No?

Okay, so you've jumped in with both feet. Time to learn how to swim... fast! If you really would like to have it come out nice, concentrate on just one piece, the hood for example, or a fender, it doesn't really matter which. Don't worry about the rest for now, that's the beauty of this method, you don't HAVE to paint the entire car at once. If you can't hold off doing the whole car, take a break after the second coat. A serious break, cuz now is the time to make a big decision. After your done, and the paint is fully dry - give it a full day. Step back and really look at what you've done. You'll probably have, as 69Charger so eliquently described, a "WTF am I doing!" moment. That will pass. Once it has, take a closer look. You say you were having lots of bubbles, but when you gave em a good puff, they would disappear, right? My experience with this is that's okay. Not ideal, but manageable. the important thing is to get all those bubbles to pop BEFORE the paint gets "tacky". If not, forget about trying to re-roller it, you'll just pull up paint and it'll look worse. that's where concentrating on one panel at a time comes to your advantage, if you go too fast, and come back to correct mistakes after the paint is already starting to dry, you'll have a mess on your hands.

So, back to the break. Here's the big decision - how does it look now, and how good do you want the final finish to look? If you see mistakes; bubbles, runs, sagging, etc., NOW is the time to sand them out smooth, BEFORE you go any further. If you don't do it now, and decide after two more coats that it isn't smooth enough, it just means your going to need to do twice as much sanding to get it right. Take the time after the first two coats, you'll be thankful you did. If you end up completely removing the paint to get rid of the errors, better two coats than four. And don't be surprised if you do, cuz if you're mixing it right, the first two coats are gonna be thin. That's the whole idea. the fridge was originally white, and I painted it Sunrise Red. I felt that it wasn't really until after the 5th coat that I could really tell that the base color was completely covered. It may not take as many with the dark paint, only you can tell.

As for the bubbles in the paint can, did you have them tinit it for you, or was that a "stock" color? If they tinted it for you, did they use a shaker to mix it up? If so, you may have to let the paint sit for a few days, maybe even a week. I took 69Charger's advice and mixed each "batch" well; slow, steady "stirring", for nearly 20 minutes. As he said, once you think you've stirred it enough, stir it some more.

My experience was that you're better off OVER diluting with mineral spirits, rather than UNDER diluting (I did both). If you over dilute, the paint will have a greater tendency to run on you (nearly all my surfaces were vertical), but if you just keep gently rolling it, it will eventually set nicely. Don't over roll it, just enough so that it no longer wants to run on you. I actually found that with my over diluted batch, if I rollered horizontally, across the grain if you will, it helped stop the running quickly. The alternative of under-diluting creates much more serious problems; the paint will get "tacky" before it gets a chance to spread and lay down properly. If you try to correct this by re-rollering it will lift the paint and look like a mess. If you let it go as is (too thick) you'll get orange peel. Not a total bust, but it will just mean more sanding for you.

I'll stop here cuz I've already talked too much. Anyone else want to chime in with some words of advice or encouragement?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained - that's my attitude. Forget all the nay-sayers out there, they're a dime a dozen. ADVENTURE, my boy! The joy is in the journey, not the destination.

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22301
03/27/06 10:56 PM
03/27/06 10:56 PM
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if you have bubbles you can put the paint (with lid on) in the refregerator over night.
then let it warm back up to room temp.
this should get the bubbles out of the liquid.
just dont paint it when its that cold..
let it get back up to room temp..on its own
cheap


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Re: paint job on a budget!? #22302
03/27/06 11:54 PM
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Thanks ricklandia for all that great advice. Well, i have jumped in but i'm not coming out until i can swim (which i already can :P) But heres the thing, i think the paint was too thick. Also there are no orange peels soo far, the paint is still a little sticky cuz it cold at night. And yea i didnt mix for 20 minutes though. IT is a "TINT" they mixed the base and then shake it in a SHAKER reallllllly fast and this was all over a week ago and the paint was sitting in my living room for a week so i think it should be setteled, just that i didnt stirr it too much and didnt make it thin enough therefore bubbles :S. Anyways, only have 1 coat done soo far and it doesnt look bad to me. I mean some spots look a little thicker than others but in person they look fine. Here are some pictures i snapped about a hour ago when i went to his house.

My original plan was to paint at 7:30AM in the morning and then come back at like 6:00PM and do another coat, but when i got there i realized i still had to clean the car more. And i didnt start painting till 1:00PM and finished at 3:00, which sucked. So i have wait till tommorow :S.

Oh and yes i do want a DECENT turnout and am not gonna stop. Sanding doesnt matter to me, i've sanded enough and a little more wont hurt.
Also i'll put the paint in the refrigirator.

PS: I've already had the "WTF AM I DOING" moment about 6 times LOL.










Re: paint job on a budget!? #22303
03/28/06 12:42 AM
03/28/06 12:42 AM

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I've been observing this thread for some time now, and thought I might add a suggestion in regards to the problem w/ bubbles. It has been mentioned several times that the "thinner" the paint the better. Would this thinned-down paint be thin enough to pass through one of those cheapy paper 'strainers' that they hand out at the automotive paint stores? If the paint mixture was thin enough, could this not remove most if not all of the bubbles from having the paint mixed?

JEG

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22304
03/28/06 01:07 AM
03/28/06 01:07 AM

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Quote:

I've been observing this thread for some time now, and thought I might add a suggestion in regards to the problem w/ bubbles. It has been mentioned several times that the "thinner" the paint the better. Would this thinned-down paint be thin enough to pass through one of those cheapy paper 'strainers' that they hand out at the automotive paint stores? If the paint mixture was thin enough, could this not remove most if not all of the bubbles from having the paint mixed?

JEG




What is this sheet called again? And can i get it from HOME DEPOT LOL

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22305
03/28/06 10:52 AM
03/28/06 10:52 AM

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Bakuryu,
I think if that's the extent of the bubbles you are seeing after you dilute with mineral spirits, I think you're okay. Mix a little longer and you'll see the number of bubbles decrease, but to be honest I never completely got rid of them, and had no problems. I believe 69Charger mentioned that if you still have a fair amount of bubbles once you've poured it in the tray, you can skim the surface to get rid of the excess, but honestly I never bothered. I found that instead of rolling out the paint from the roller as you would in traditional house painting (using the corregated section of the tray), I just rolled it in the deep section, pulled it out to let the excess drip off, then went right at it. It seemed as thought the more I was able to get on the surface immediately the better, spreading it out quickly so that I didn't have to roll too much to spread it out. Make sense?
More about the bubbles - it was my experience that you WILL still get bubbles when rolling it on with the proper dilution, even if you over-dilute, at least in the initial minutes of application. If the slight puff pops them, fine - as long as you try to get them all gone as quickly as possible - let the paint spread. After a couple of minutes, you can go back over any areas that still have the very tiny bubbles as "69" describes, but do it EVER so gently - just the weight of the roller. If it feels like it's trying to pull up the paint - STOP! You can fix it in sanding. This process of re-rollering to totally eliminate any tiny bubbles is definitely where the "art" comes in. I didn't really "get it" until the fourth coat, then BINGO - it all made sense to where I was able to repeat it consistantly.

It's a little hard to tell from the photos how the finish really is, that's a judgement call you're going to need to make. What makes you think it was too thick? You say you're not seeing any orange peel, so that's good. I'm willing to bet if that's the case that you're not too far off on the dilution. When the paint is completely dry (no more tacky feeling), run your hand over the surface nice and gently. Feel any rough spots? Feel any spots rougher than others? If so, I would take the time now to sand it out and correct the problem before you go on to the next coat, especially if you think it's too thick.Remember, the point of this is to put the paint on thin, so it's not going to cover up any underlaying flaws.

On a last not, I'm really interested to see your progress - KEEP the PHOTOS COMING!!! I have two gallons of the MASSTONE TINT BASE sitting in my garage - untinted as of yet, but I've been contemplating black. It's a bit of a scary thought as black shows EVERYTHING. BTW, when they tinted yours, did they mention any kind of special tint, or did they just use the standard tinting formulas? I asked the Home Depot "paint-guy" and he simply said that he could just punch in "rustoleum" and the tint system would know. I wasn't all convinced he wasn't just making it up as he went, but I guess I have little choice. Did they give you a selection of "rustoleum" colors to choose from, or did they just mix up the color from a swatch?

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22306
03/28/06 11:30 AM
03/28/06 11:30 AM
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toronto canada
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Ricklandia - excellent advise, seems like you really got a handle on it, i agree with everything you said.

some things that come to mind, never, ever, never mix and enamel on a shaker!!!! only stir, unless you want to make that vacuum table that was discussed pages ago, or you can hitch a ride on the space shuttle to take it into the vacuum of space!!!. also after mixing the paint in you pan, definetly skim the surface of the paint with a paper towel, that reduces the bubbles by half in my case. also don't introduce the roller until you have mixed the paint. and the reason why i don't clean the roller with mineral spirits is the bubbles, use a new one every time, they're cheap. also when you roller, try not to roller really fast, or start out rollering fast and then go over it about 10 times slow right after spreading out the paint, you have to practice and just find that "sweet spot", if you don't have a old trunk, door, or hood, then just do the hood to start with, alot eaiser to sand down the hood than the whole car!!!!

Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #22307
03/28/06 12:32 PM
03/28/06 12:32 PM

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Wow, what an incredable thread. I linked over hear from another car forum site, probetalk. Decided to sign up to ask a couple of my own questions, post some pics when I get time. This thread is definitly working its way around the inet. I spent the whole day yesterday reading every single page. It was very informative. WTG Charge69, very creative.

I'm thinking about trying this in a couple weeks on a beater just to see how it turns out. I was wondering if anyone has tried the flexability test yet. How flexable is this paint? Will it chip off if a dent is put in, then pulled back out? How about random flexing, like *ex on the hood?
Exit, Rick, or Charger? This is the only reason I have for not trying it yet. I do remember Exit saying that was going to be part of the test along with the scratch and chip test, I believe.

Everyone keep up the good work. Keep the pictures coming.

BTW, I might have to take you up on the offer to come see the Charger.

Last edited by Smite; 03/28/06 12:34 PM.
Re: paint job on a budget!? #22308
03/28/06 12:44 PM
03/28/06 12:44 PM
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toronto canada
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no issues with flex for me, i've painted plastic bumpers, the hood on the charger flexes a bit when i wash it, and i've popped the front fender while working on the motor in and out leaning too hard on it, no issues, if anything it is alot better then factory paint, at least for me.

Re: paint job on a budget!? #22309
03/28/06 12:45 PM
03/28/06 12:45 PM
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Our old mopars have sheet metal a bit more resistant to flexing than a Probe

In my limited experience, the final result has been on the soft side, so I don't think flex would be a problem.

More generally though, I'm signed off from the idea of using this on my dart at this point. I found some of the original enamel behind the rear bumper, and polished and waxed it, and when I looked into it head on, I could see a reflection (not mirrorlike, but a reflection). When I look head on into the test piece I've done with Rustoleum and Rustoleum pro,(under the same light conditions), after waxing I can barely see anything. It still looks nice from the side, but that's only part of what I'm looking for. This, plus the fact that I can put scratches in it with my fingernail, has pushed me over the edge. I need more of a shine. Miracle auto body, here I come. Best wishes to other rollers; I think I'll use the Rustoleum spray for touchups and door jambs though, but for my body I'm hanging up my roller.


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