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#21530 - 01/26/06 10:45 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
roadrunninMark Offline
top fuel

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 1979
Loc: GA
Does it make a difference if you already have an epoxy primer on it? Since you probably wouldnt be able to paint the same day as prepping or having the body work complete, I was wondering about having it sit around some and getting a little surface rust on it.
Mark

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#21531 - 01/26/06 10:49 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: BurntOrange]
BobR Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 7848
Loc: Left Coast
I hate to be a "fly in this ointment" but if I spend 200 hours filling and blocksanding(like I just did) I am not going to roll on the paint and I have NEVER seen anything but epoxy or etch primer stick effectively to bare metal. If this stuff is Canada's version of Rustoleum it will not stick sufficiently enough to bare metal for me to paint a "cool" car with. Maybe a "winter beater" -Bob

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#21532 - 01/26/06 11:17 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: BobR]
noisydart Offline
super gas

Registered: 02/16/03
Posts: 985
Bob- I hear what you're saying, but if you could
paint this stuff over epoxy primer, that might be good.
And if it does have good rust protection, it might be worth while experimenting. Your many hours of prep aren't really going to be ruined by the topcoat Tremclad/Rustoleum and it could be
block sanded off if it didn't work.

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#21533 - 01/26/06 11:24 AM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: noisydart]
BobR Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 7848
Loc: Left Coast
Yes, over some DP primer would be better as at least you know the metal is protected. I am not against using paint "off label" as I just used Ameron catylized urethane to paint my engine compartment but I did spray it on. -Bob

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#21534 - 01/26/06 12:05 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: moderncylinder]
MikeyT Offline


Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 4599
Loc: Watertown, WI
This is very interesting post to read.

Mike

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#21535 - 01/26/06 12:08 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: MikeyT]
jrwoodjoe Offline
master

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 8518
Loc: Tenn.
I agree, it is interesting. Do you have a close-up photo of the paint on your charger or bug?

Joe
_________________________

65 Barracuda
70 Challenger

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#21536 - 01/26/06 12:47 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: jrwoodjoe]
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
As far as temperature goes it really doesnít matter, I did my 74 beetle in the dead of winter, it was like -20 deg Celsius, I had a portable heater in the garage and 2x 1500W flood lights, I was warm enough. The charger I did this past September in about 25 deg Celsius and it was really humid with no difference, where when I sprayed a single stage on the 71 beetle I had to use the proper temperature reducer. As far as getting this paint to stick, all I can say is that it is made to be painted on BARE and RUSTED metal. The stuff sticks to rubber, glass, anything, like sh*t on a blanket (if you have kids you'll know what I mean !!! lol). I have no issues or question in my mind that this stuff sticks like crazy to bare metal. I'm sure it would stick on epoxy primer if you sand it with 800 grit before. I have never had any reaction to anything that Iíve painted over, Iíve painted motorcycle gas tanks and plastic covers, 3 cars, over base clear, the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, no issues. Iíve painted over automotive primer on my 74 beetle where I had exposed metal and knew I would leave it exposed for a while and didnít want it to rust. I painted right over bondo, where I had a few really minor scratches and dents that I couldnít bang out, no issues. I had a drop of the paint on glass, it was really hard to get off, I was afraid to use a razor because it could scratch my new windshield so I used a credit card and it was really, really hard to get off. I painted the door jambs, under trunk lid, under hood, everything. Try one panel and see it if works, u have to experiment with it, it took a lot of trial and error for me to get the "technique" down pat. my car is by no means a show car, but I couldnít justify a $5000 paint job after just buying the car for $11000, buying new bumpers, door handles, emblems, all rubber, windshield, brake booster, heater core, headliner, carpet, door panels, brakes, ect....I spent all my money on the aesthetics, and mechanics, not to mention the car. I kind of rushed the charger because I HAD to drive my dream car as soon as I could. My 74 beetle I really took my time with and it is and looks like a $5000 paint job. I used a foam brush to paint the jambs and tight spots, and just ran the foam roller over it to smooth it out. I used tremclad flat black in a spray can for the rear tail panel on the charger.

Here are a bunch of close up good high res pics I just took of the car and the supplies I used and a few other pics of the beetleís I painted:

http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/?start=0

If you have a show car that you've rotisserie nut and bolt restored and have $40000.00 into it then get it painted by someone for $10000.00. If you want a nice, clean, good driver, cheap, easy to do paint job yourself, have the time and patience then try this method. I could strip and prep the car in 1 day since all the body work is done, and have it professionally painted any time if I want. If you have the equipment to spray it on, then by all means spray it on, it would turn out just like any other automotive paint job, only the paint would be a lot cheaper!!!, not to mention you donít need primer, primer sealer, reducer, ectÖ. I didnít want to borrow a compressor again, lug it home, get over spray everywhere, tape the whole car, worry about dust and do a ton more work associated with spraying; been there done that!!!!. Using a roller makes it super easy to do, but it is tricky. This method is not for everyone, but itís the way I did it!!! My 74 beetle as I mentioned earlier was painted in 1999, Iíve since put 35,000mi, the paint still looks like the day I did it. I did not intend to make my car a show car, just a nice driver, itís not laser straight, dent free, or perfect, but it sure gets me thumbs up where ever I go and I only spent $50 on supplies, and that ainít to bad at all.

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#21537 - 01/26/06 12:51 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: jrwoodjoe]
TonyS451 Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3900
Loc: Chicago, IL
Seems like it may require a little extra pressure on the roller to get in a corner or crevice (like drip rails or around lens openings or any place where it might not be completely flat). I can see that possibly causing excess paint to run from the roller around those areas. My guess is steady pressure on the roller is very important. Any tips for getting around those places?
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#21538 - 01/26/06 01:06 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: TonyS451]
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
well basically i have the roller in one hand, and the foam "paint brush" (in the pics) in the other. you have to work fast because the paint becoms non workable in about 10 mins. so i do one pannel at a time. it goes quickly, takes about 1 hour for a coat on the whole car, i've done 2 coats in 1 day no issues, it dries fast. but for wet sanding i wait overnight. basically in the rain channels i would use the brush and cover it completely, then use the rounded end of the roller and go over it, it's hard to describe, u just have to be paitent and expirement on one pannel like the trunk lid and do the whole process and see if your happy, it's easy to bail the project with only having to re-do the trunklid if you can't handle it or have one of those "what the f*&k am i doing" moments!!!. I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat. Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!! That's the best i can explain it!!

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#21539 - 01/26/06 01:09 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: TonyS451]
TonyS451 Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3900
Loc: Chicago, IL
The shine on the cars (both the orange bug and the Charger)does not seem that deep. Maybe its the angle of the pictures...Would you say the shine is every bit as deep as any sprayed car you've seen? I'm not trying to be critical, just want to know what I may be getting myself into here. I still think its a great idea and give you a lot of credit for trying it and more importantly, making it work.
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#21540 - 01/26/06 01:17 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: TonyS451]
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
i would not compare the shine to a base clear paint job, but i would compare it to a good single stage acrylic enamel paint job. plus the more you buff the shinyer it gets, that's where i got lazy, but i plan to buff and wetsand more when i have the free time. i did the charger in 3 days, like i said i was ancy to get it done, doing the pee-pee dance dying to drive it so i rushed it a bit. in the sun it looks amazing, at night it looks perfect, in the shade you can see some flaws but i was not looking for a "perfect" paint job. the beetle however i did over the winter and it really looks good, no complaints. 3 weeks after i bought the charger i was driving it, it was totally stripped, re-did the interior, all the mechanics, and body work. it would have been done sooner if i would have got all the parts i ordered eariler. looking back i don't regret it at all, it was easy and got me on the road fast and cheep. I can allways re-do the paint anytime.

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#21541 - 01/26/06 01:25 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
for 3 days work to get a car on the road looking great for about $50 i'm have no complaints. if i get a few years out of it it's definetly worth it, all depends on what YOU want out of it. like i said before, if you spray it on i am positive it would come out absoultly amazing.

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#21542 - 01/26/06 01:52 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 20225
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
My satellite's got an aging single stage paint job on it, and I can say that the shine on it is still higher than on your beetle and charger, but taking into account the price of your paint job, I'd say the results are pretty damn good. For that price you could not buy enough spray paint cans to do the whole car and with as thick of a coat as you've done.

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#21543 - 01/26/06 02:08 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: DaytonaTurbo]
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
The paint on the car is not thick at all. 4 coats of paint that i sprayed on the 71 beetle midnight blue car (1 initial tack coat, 2 medium, and 1 flash coat to get the metalic uniform)used just over a can of paint with a HVLP gun on a beetle (they don't get smaller than that!!!) plus take into acount that about 1/3 is reducer. i used about 3/4 of a can on the charger, the paint is really thin. like i said eairler, you only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats. The charger is at least twice the surface area of the beetle, the paint on the 71 beetle is thicker than the paint on the charger and the 74 orange beetle. regarding the shine, if i spent 2 more days wetsanding and buffing the shine would be that of any professional single stage paint job on the charger. that being said like i mentioned earlier it depends on what YOU want out of the paint job, the thread topic is "paint job on a budget" and that is exactly what it is, plus i'm not paranoid about doing a dukes of hazzard drift on a dirt road and worrying about my precious paint. the car gets driven alot, and hard, every weekend to the cottage (400km round trip) and it gets stone chips, ect...so i'm not worried.

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#21544 - 01/26/06 02:09 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
BobR Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 7848
Loc: Left Coast
Quote:

for 3 days work to get a car on the road looking great for about $50 i'm have no complaints. if i get a few years out of it it's definetly worth it, all depends on what YOU want out of it. like i said before, if you spray it on i am positive it would come out absoultly amazing.




I don't think any of us are laughing. You got a lot of bang-for-your buck. Just goes to show how a little out-of-the-box thinking can pay off. I do still have an issue with the bond as I have seen a lot of paint that claimed to bond to anything not bond worth a darn especially to bare metal and fiberglass. I also think that the shine is not as intense as with "good" paint but it has a look that is not entirely unappealing. -Bob

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#21545 - 01/26/06 02:32 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: BobR]
TonyS451 Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3900
Loc: Chicago, IL
I'm not so interested in the cheapness of the paint as much as I am the ease of applying it. I have a small 2 car garage and no real ventilation, and it would take me forever to make a paint booth, and get the area ready for paint, not to mention getting the car ready and masked off. Then I would still have to worry about the dirt, overspray and ventilation issues (and the wasted paint). Who's to say you couldn't take this roller idea and still apply the primer and paint of choice? Maybe an extra couple hundred dollars, but still well worth it for a guy trying to paint his car a couple hours at a time and not make a huge mess of it. You can buy a gallon of Omni single stage for around $100 bucks or less. Not for the hemicuda restos, but perfect for the weekend warriors and "real" streetcars out there.
_________________________
2 kids and a dog

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#21546 - 01/26/06 02:36 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
Bee4Me Offline
super gas

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 392
Loc: ARK , Fixing something
I talked with a VERY knowledgable paint manufacture today about this and it's basically S&W Industrial Enamel paint.
I'd paint a beater with it on the cheap but you ARE going to have adhesion problems and it IS going to FADE just like ANY enamel if it's an outside yard dog.
For MY time and effort, I'll stick with BC/CC thank you.

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#21547 - 01/26/06 02:42 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: Bee4Me]
70Coronet500Vert Offline
master

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 8412
Loc: St Charles MO
Quote:

I talked with a VERY knowledgable paint manufacture today about this and it's basically S&W Industrial Enamel paint.
I'd paint a beater with it on the cheap but you ARE going to have adhesion problems and it IS going to FADE just like ANY enamel if it's an outside yard dog.
For MY time and effort, I'll stick with BC/CC thank you.




::shakes head at some people::

Well it looks like you got lots of yea's and the typical naysayer. I'd say you provided some good info. I just used those exact rollers to paint the cabinets in my kitchen. When properly loaded with un thinned paint, the texture of the finish was almost nil. Had I thinned the paint, I could see this stuff going on smooth.

Good info.
_________________________
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C

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#21548 - 01/26/06 03:05 PM Re: paint job on a budget!? [Re: Bee4Me]
69chargeryeehaa Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 1220
Loc: toronto canada
i'm not here to argue about the adhesion properties of the paint, the quality of the paint, what it really is, blah, blah, blah...i can say the paint IS MADE TO STICK TO BARE METAL, WOOD, FIBERGLASS, RUSTED METAL, CATS, DOGS, BIRDS, GRASS, GERBILS, basically anything (read the can). it's real easy to work with, does'nt smell at all (all you really smell is the mineral spirits used to thin the paint) plus i have had no reactions with underlying paint in any way shape of form on all the stuff i painted with it period. i would say it sticks roughly at least twice as good as any high quality single stage paint\primer\primer sealer out there. I've painted it in cold conditions and hot humid conditions with no issues. No fish eyes, peel, nothing. i've painted over it with single stage and BC/CC with NO ISSUES. The paint seems very inert, not prone to any of the stuff that auto paint is prone to. I have used the paint alot and can say it has not peeled, flaked off, nothing on anything i've used it on. Hell i even still have a 71 Kawasaki motorcycle i painted 15 years ago over the original paint and it still looks great.

TonyS451-there is no need for primer with this paint, if u have to use primer because you can't sleep at night then do so if u must, but trust me your just wasting your time. Automotive paints that are made for cars such as single stage or BC/CC are made to be sprayed, and NEED reducers/hardners to cure and dry properly, it's critical that they be used correctly, there is even different reducers depending on what temperatures u are shooting the paint in, so i would not compare this paint to auto paint nor try to roller auto paint. I have sprayed several cars, the 71 beetle in the pics as mentioned before was painted single stage acrylic enamel in my garage with a home made ventelation system, and i wetted down the floor when i was painting to keep dust down, and used a tack cloth ALOT. That car came out perfect, very hugh quality paint BUT it was a major pain in the butt, taping, dust, smell, washing paint out of my hair and nose for a week!!!!

Once again i'll mention that the thread title is "paint job on a budget" read the thread title BEFORE you comment. If you have a #'s match Hemi cuda vert, 1 of 1 concept car, with 0.0003 original miles, and a build sheet engraved in platinum u found under the rear seat, get it done profesionally. if you have the skill and time to do it my way and have a weekend warrior that you don't want to be embarhassed to drive but don't crap $ every night after dinner then give it a shot!!!
oh and for those of you who think it has adhesion problems and it won't stick well i have this news update that just came in "your right" it's all a lie, i made the whole thing up. after i painted the car the paint peeled off like suran cling wrap.

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#21549 - 01/26/06 03:11 PM Re: paint job on a budget!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm saving this one, it should be put in the archives!

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