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Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: autoxcuda] #2140998
08/25/16 11:36 PM
08/25/16 11:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 601
New Lenox il.
CARMAN Offline OP
mopar
CARMAN  Offline OP
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New Lenox il.
Yes you are correct about the pic's. Front end was rebuilt with stock bushing. Yes I have stock strut rods.

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2141028
08/26/16 12:03 AM
08/26/16 12:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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So Cal
Has the Lower Control arm bushing stud to K-member hole been repaired? Any cracking that could cause flexing?

Any drivers side collisions? Are there factory spot welds on the inner fender? At joint to the radiator support? scope scope scope scope



You could try running an adjustable strut rod on the left side and slightly pull the LCA forward.

-You have to disconnect the lower ball joint, back off the T-bar all the way, and adjust the strut rod too short.

-Then feel the natural up and down movement of the LCA and ride height.

-Then push the LCA forward before it feels like it's binding or pinching the LCA rubber bushing. Then adjust the strut rod to that new length so the back strut bushing is against the K-member.

Or measure your old strut rod and make the new one 1/2" shorter. Theatrically that will give you around 3 deg positive caster assuming UBJ to LBJ is roughly 9"


If you could add 3 deg pos caster I think that would net you 2-3 deg caster with 1/4 deg negative camber.

After that you can adjust the right side to match. And you appear to have plenty of adjustment to do that.

That's sort of a band aid until you for sure identify what is going on in the left front. And figure if the issue is stable and not going to worsen. Or if want to attempt to fix it.

Last edited by autoxcuda; 08/26/16 12:15 AM.
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: autoxcuda] #2141054
08/26/16 12:35 AM
08/26/16 12:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 601
New Lenox il.
CARMAN Offline OP
mopar
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New Lenox il.
I have had this car for 22 years and it took 16 years to restore it. As far as I know it has never been hit anywhere. A friend of mine who has a body shop did all the body work and paint. I may have to pull the lower control arm back off maybe I missed something when I put it all back together.

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Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: BDW] #2141251
08/26/16 12:49 PM
08/26/16 12:49 PM
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Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
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Originally Posted By cnxt
Originally Posted By TC@HP2
Take it back and tell them to put 2005 Mustang GT specs on it.


What specs would that be?



+7* caster left and right, -.75* camber left and right, +1* toe.

Obviously they won't hit the caster number, which is fine as any positive you can get is better than stock, but it gives them a late model target that will be in any alignment computer, at any shop, nationwide, that any toe and go tech can likely perform.

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2141282
08/26/16 01:56 PM
08/26/16 01:56 PM
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northwest USA
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This is why you do not tell them to use these 2005 mustang specs, it will confuse them more than they are now. Never get half of that caster spec on a stock suspension.

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: NANKET] #2141553
08/26/16 11:02 PM
08/26/16 11:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
Carman you need to get that car in the garage and pull all those cams out and clean the rust off of the body where the cams fit. Next clean and lube all the cams and hardware or find some new ones. It's really hard to get a smooth movement out of the cams in that condition. If I was doing the alignment I would charge an extra $50 to deal with the rusted cams twocents
Don't ever bring a car to the alignment shop with all that paint and rust on the cams because the alignment won't stay in place because you cant torque the nuts down properly.You need to make sure you have clean rust free surfaces with some good wheel bearing grease on the bolts.
By the way I probably align over 100 Toyota cars and trucks every year and just because I work on imports for a living doesn't mean I can't do Mopars thumbs
Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2142010
08/27/16 05:23 PM
08/27/16 05:23 PM
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Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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I've encountered the opposite;
Well lubed cams won't hold their setting very long (on a daily driver).

The trick is to only put some grease on the cam-bolts, and not the cams themself. They need all the grip to maintain their setting.


Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: NANKET] #2142080
08/27/16 07:29 PM
08/27/16 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted By NANKET
This is why you do not tell them to use these 2005 mustang specs, it will confuse them more than they are now. Never get half of that caster spec on a stock suspension.


I disagree, but certainly your mileage may vary. When they fail to hit that spec, you look at the numbers, thank them for the effort, and walk out of the shop with maximum positive caster. Even if it is half of the mustang spec, its more than the stock specs, which will achieve a better driving vehicle, unless you insist on using F70 bias plys under your car.

There is no reason why a tubular upper arm suspension, which the OP has, can't hit those numbers and there are some on this board who have achieved more than that.

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2142098
08/27/16 07:54 PM
08/27/16 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,251
Slidell, LA
Ronnman Offline
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I believe your problem is two-fold:
1. The caster is far off side to side
2. The toe-in needs to be greater especially with larger tires.

Comparing the original toe-in, the car most likely steered better than after they aligned the car.
Ron

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: TC@HP2] #2142620
08/28/16 06:29 PM
08/28/16 06:29 PM
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northwest USA
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Originally Posted By TC@HP2
Originally Posted By NANKET
This is why you do not tell them to use these 2005 mustang specs, it will confuse them more than they are now. Never get half of that caster spec on a stock suspension.


I disagree, but certainly your mileage may vary. When they fail to hit that spec, you look at the numbers, thank them for the effort, and walk out of the shop with maximum positive caster. Even if it is half of the mustang spec, its more than the stock specs, which will achieve a better driving vehicle, unless you insist on using F70 bias plys under your car.

There is no reason why a tubular upper arm suspension, which the OP has, can't hit those numbers and there are some on this board who have achieved more than that.


Well OK, if you look at his adjuster bolts the left side rear one is all the way in so caster is maxed at that wheel and both sides is less than one degree. Where is the 7 degrees here?

Last edited by NANKET; 08/28/16 06:31 PM.
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2142714
08/28/16 09:26 PM
08/28/16 09:26 PM
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ohio
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ruderunner Offline
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Are these adjustable control arms? If yes are the arms set right?

Fwiw years ago I did some work for a guy with a stealth. He bought adjustable rear arms.

I st the factory adjusters to center, then adjusted the arms . this allowed the arms to make the big changes and kept the factory adjusters for fine tuning.

And I agree the factory specs for vintage muscle cars are completely out dated.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: NANKET] #2142835
08/29/16 12:03 AM
08/29/16 12:03 AM
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Pikes Peak Country
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Originally Posted By NANKET

Well OK, if you look at his adjuster bolts the left side rear one is all the way in so caster is maxed at that wheel and both sides is less than one degree. Where is the 7 degrees here?


It isn't there in its current configuration.

The whole thing was not assembled correctly to begin with. Every aftermarket tubular upper control arm out there is designed with an additional 3-4* of positive caster in them. With this built in improvement, the fact that they couldn't achieve even that amount means it was not put together correctly.

I'm willing to bet that achieving max positive caster was never a consideration during assembly because if it was, strut bushings, strut rod length, and lower control arm placement would have been forefront in consideration during assembly. Doing this and using offset bushing in stock control arms could easily get 3-4* positive. Swap to an aftermarket arm with an extra 3-4*, and 7* should be easily achievable.

Dialing in possible alignment numbers begins with the basic assembly of the suspension. Just like building horsepower begins with degreeing a cam to optimize valve events, so too should suspension be assembled with precision and forethought at the numbers to improve its performance.

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2142858
08/29/16 12:34 AM
08/29/16 12:34 AM
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SNAFU

Systems normal all fouled up

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2143165
08/29/16 02:45 PM
08/29/16 02:45 PM
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ohio
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ruderunner Offline
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Tc, arms on wrong sides?


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2143229
08/29/16 05:33 PM
08/29/16 05:33 PM
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Colorado
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denfireguy Offline
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Just went through all this with my 73 "Cuda. One thing not mentioned was ride height. I set mine before the alignment shop visit. If that is off, the rest of the alignment will be off and alignment racks never mention it anymore.
I could not get any positive caster out of mine so I went with tubular upper arms as well.
Final alignment with the new arms was +3.5 left +3.4 right caster. Camber was -.6 left and -.7 right.
The guy did not use any canned settings but went online to research it. One of the places he looked was here on Moparts.
The results to me were astonishing, it has not handled like this in 35 years. I am very happy.
Craig.


2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: Fab64] #2151212
09/09/16 06:44 PM
09/09/16 06:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
TN
1DGEMAN Offline
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Originally Posted By Fab64
Instead of looking at the standard, big-name franchise shops, maybe you can find an independent guy? I use a guy who has his own shop, has been around for a long time and knows old cars. Good luck.


So Fab64 where is this shop? I am in SoCal also and am looking for an alignment shop.
Thanks, Rod


Real Men shift for themselves
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: ruderunner] #2151427
09/10/16 01:16 AM
09/10/16 01:16 AM
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Pikes Peak Country
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Originally Posted By ruderunner
Tc, arms on wrong sides?
\\

Possibly. Unlikely, but certainly possible.

Further up, OP said it was rebuilt with stock bushings. That typically means there is not a strut rod problem, but I'd certainly recommend looking into the whole strut rod and lower control arm relationship to the K-frame. If this combination of parts is not fully seated, the lower arm will be set too far back and cause the same inability to get caster.

Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: TC@HP2] #2151967
09/11/16 12:06 AM
09/11/16 12:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 601
New Lenox il.
CARMAN Offline OP
mopar
CARMAN  Offline OP
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New Lenox il.
Ok just a little update i have removed the entire suspension from the car and am going over everything. I have purchased new strut rod's cam adjusting bolt's and have rebuilt the lower control arm's by cutting the weld where the bump stop bolt's to and squeezed the ends by the torsion bar socket closer together to get rid of all the sloppy play in them. I also added the stiffening plates to the bottom of the control arm's.I thought at first that i might have had the upper arm's i wrong but after getting it all apart the were right.

20160910_201434.jpg
Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2151970
09/11/16 12:08 AM
09/11/16 12:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 601
New Lenox il.
CARMAN Offline OP
mopar
CARMAN  Offline OP
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New Lenox il.
Right way

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Re: Front end allignment ? [Re: CARMAN] #2151971
09/11/16 12:09 AM
09/11/16 12:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 601
New Lenox il.
CARMAN Offline OP
mopar
CARMAN  Offline OP
mopar

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New Lenox il.
Wrong way.

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