I have a 72 Plymouth roadrunner I recently installed some tubular upper control arms. Took the car to the goodyear place in town and had the alignment done. Car now drives like crap seems to wonder all over and not very stable at highway speeds. Here is the print out they gave me do these specs look good. Should I find a different shop. They also said they had a hard time because I have wider tires in the rear. Never heard of that before.

that might have made it harder to measure the thrust angle but I am just thinking out loud & here is a BTT for ya

Why did they set the camber like that? Do you have manual or power steering? It needs more caster and get the camber in spec. They should do this for free, the chart shows that they did it wrong.

I have power steering.

Did they ask you your driving style when you went in? Or did they just do what they wanted. I would expect to see at least 1.5+ caster and the camber should be even side to side, not differing by .9.

They just did what they wanted. I could tell they were not thrilled about working on the car. I guess I need to find a new shop.

Sometimes you can turn the cams as far as they can go and you still can't get the camber and caster in the green. These cars are old and you never know how the frame is. Sometimes you have to make a compromise to get the camber and caster readings close to being correct. I would have sacrificed some caster to get the camber a little closer and just try to even out the cross caster.
You have to remember that most guys won't spend the extra time to get it right because it only pays a certain amount on the flat rate clock.
If you lived closer I would be able to get it in a little better

Gus

Get pictures of your front and rear adjustment cams for each side of the car. Post them and we'll have an idea of what adjustment is left. And if they got lazy or over their head doing the alignment.

Many new cars don't have camber or caster adjustment. A lot of alignment techs at lower level high volume (tire) shops aren't the most skilled and able to think outside the cookie cutter.

Find the shop of the local autocross guys use.

Most if not all tubular control arms allow increased caster. I consider 3* the bare minimum. The high-end Euro cars that track like they're on rails use as much as 7*. Unless you're doing a lot of cornering, 0-1* of neg camber. 1/16" - 1/8" toe-in for the street. Maybe a bit (.2-.3) more caster on the RF if your roads are more crowned. 3* neg camber on the street is where front tire wear gets irregular, but I've run 1-2* neg without issues on a couple of "handling" cars.
You need to find a shop that likes older cars & knows how to do a proper setup, not just per old specs; clues will be some kind of racing experience and a no-BS conversation.
As for the wider rear tires, that didn't bother my guy on my drag car (7.10 fronts, 13X31 rears)...and that thing goes absolutely straight @ 130.

Like Gus said many times you cant get no more then 1 to 2 pos caster and keep the chamber in specs with stock control arms. I would think with tubular they could get more pos caster.
I also agree with Gus that I would sacrifice a little caster to try and get that left side chamber closer to 0 like the other side. Also I know many of the front end guys out there that are flat rate dont care what the actual reading is as all they do is get the reading to be green which means its in specs but could be on the high end. Its like if you had a chamber spec of 0 plus or minus 1 degree the car could have minus 1 degree chamber on the right front and plus 1 degree chamber on the left front and still show green on the screen and be in specs. But when you consider the true readings both front tires are leaning to the left side. I would never let a car go out like that but the machine would have the readings showing in the green which is in specs but both sides are at the far end working against each other. Same for caster. I like to get as much pos caster as I can to help the car handle better in most cases. And some guys learn how to use the machine but dont understand front ends to well.
Here is what a front end guy who worked at the Dodge dealer I worked at told me on day when a Caravan had just the left front tire worn on the outer edge. I told the service manager when we looked at the car and the customers complaint about the L/f tire worn on the outer edge it had to be a chamber problem as the R/f tire looked perfect. The guy they hired to do just front end alignments said to us it could be the toe on the left front ???? I said to him thats not possible because the front tires are tied together and both would wear the same and he still said oh no I have seen the machine show just toe out on one front tire but not the other ??? And I thought to myself........and this is the guy who should knows front ends inside and out. So I agree I would find a shop with someone who will set your car right and even if you have to slip him a little cash tip to make sure he does it right for you its worth it. Ron

Thanks for the reply's. I look around for a shop that can set this thing up better. I will get some pic's of the cam adjusters this afternoon.

Instead of looking at the standard, big-name franchise shops, maybe you can find an independent guy? I use a guy who has his own shop, has been around for a long time and knows old cars. Good luck.

I agree lots of times they wont be close.My 65 I even used the offset bushings and wasnt close.But I did get it pretty even.My kids 62 300 same thing.that is a ton of toe.I like about .08 or .10 at most.Miss not having the shop to do my stuff now.Rocky

Why would you install tubular A-arms and not tell the shop what kind of alignment you want?

The lack of caster most likely makes the steering feel unsecure.

Take it back and tell them to put 2005 Mustang GT specs on it.

What specs would that be?

You might see if you have a good frame and alignment shop nearby. They are usually a bit sharper than the local chain stores who deal with Honda's and Toyota's.

Back in 94 when I finished My Charger I took it to the closest place which was a goodyear store. The guy worked on it for about 4 hours, gave me a print out etc. When leaving the parking lot I almost took out a pole due to steering wheel not returning. I then took it to a frame and alignment shop that I normally used. He asked if I had tried aligning it myself to which I said No, Why did you ask? he responded with it wasn't too bad for an eyeball job. 45 Minutes later I drove out and the car hasn't been touched since.

Here are some pictures of the adjusting bolts. First one is right side front second is right side rear.

First one is left side front second one is left side rear.

Are you calling the "right" side the passenger side?

In the pictures of the rear adjusters, which direction in the tire (toward the outside of the car)?

In all the pictures, is upwards in the picture also upwards on the car?


If I'm interpreting the directions correct, the left/driver side rear is pulled all the way inwards to for max neg camber and max positive caster. And the left/drivers side front is in the middle of the adjustment range.

So...if you move the front inward you get closer to 0 deg camber, but you loose caster. If you move the front outward you get more neg camber (worse), and you gain caster.

Caster is considered a "non tire wearing" adjustment (at extreme positive caster you can increase some wear). Camber is a tire wearing condition.

**Something is going on the drivers side** Does look rusty. Start investigating from there. Like the rear chassis A-arm mount in pushed outward or the front chassis A-arm mount is pushed inward.


Problem is...the right/passenger side is maxed out to is LEAST amount of caster. So if you change the left/drivers toward 0 deg camber and loose some caster, the end result will be more caster on right/pass side then left/drv side. They call the cross caster. Cars will pull slightly to the side with the greater positive caster.

Actually, my guess is the alignment tech spend extra time on this trying to juggle the right combo to put makeup on a monkey of a situation.


Do you have stock strut rods? Do you have Poly strut bushings?