Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
#212308
02/02/09 08:37 PM
02/02/09 08:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,746 Riverside, California
Lil Demon
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I need a little advice here. The Demon weighs 3100 with a 53/47 front to rear bias. I currently have 110# springs on the rear. They sag a little. I want to increase the rear ride height a bit, but cannot go any higher on the perches/mounts. So, I think I could achieve what I want by taking a little of the sag away.
Previously, I called Bickel and he told me I needed 185# springs - there is no way I need 185s, so I bought 140s. I have a brand new set of Bickel 140s that I could put in, but before I do that - I want to ask - is 140 too much spring for the car?
Back half 4-link that now has coil overs in the front, 4.56 gear, 727, and 875-900hp NA.
If I could raise it a hair and perhaps get better performance as well I would be very happy.
So - I guess the question is: With similar cars, who is running what weight spring? And what is the right spring for me.
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212310
02/02/09 08:54 PM
02/02/09 08:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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Remember you only need enough spring to hold the body up so the shock is at its designed working length, move the lower shock mount up to raise the body EDIT correction you should be using 120# springs now and if you want to lift it(this is assuming you have adjustable lower mounts) the 140# might be a bit much
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/02/09 09:08 PM.
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212313
02/02/09 10:42 PM
02/02/09 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Quote:
The mounts are all the way up already - I can't go anymore. I could use the 140s I already have or order 120-125. But, they need to work as well.
The big thing is you need to get the shock back to its design length(about mid travel but check with the manufacturer)and I'm thinking your loss of height was the spring collapsing which would also decrease the design length, IF your at the top shock mount location I'm also thinking you have cranked up on the spring adjuster to way up, if this is true then the stiffer spring MIGHT allow you to get back to the design length(with lowering the spring adjuster) and give you enough to lower the shock mount
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212317
02/03/09 12:10 AM
02/03/09 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Quote:
No - I'm definitely not going 185, I'm trying to figure out if:
1) The 110s are too light or correct. 2) If 110s too light, what is correct as I already have a pair of 140s sitting here
How far up is the spring adjuster/platform from the bottom?
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212318
02/03/09 12:11 AM
02/03/09 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I Live Here
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Think I have said this before but lets try again You have the 140's why not throw them on there and see what you get? Easy enough thing to swap out. I think you already know this but just for a refresher. I have 110's in my heap at 2800, had 120's in the Valiant at 3470 and the old Duster had 110's at 3050. The Vega has 90's if that matters
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#212319
02/03/09 02:22 AM
02/03/09 02:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,746 Riverside, California
Lil Demon
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Quote:
Think I have said this before but lets try again You have the 140's why not throw them on there and see what you get? Easy enough thing to swap out.
I think you already know this but just for a refresher. I have 110's in my heap at 2800, had 120's in the Valiant at 3470 and the old Duster had 110's at 3050. The Vega has 90's if that matters
I know - but my TNT time is going to be really limited and you keep telling me the rear needs to be a little higher. So, I'm wondering if I can dial the front down 1/2" and raise the rear 1". To do that with what I have - it's the 140s. I'm just thinking out loud.
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212320
02/03/09 08:01 AM
02/03/09 08:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
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Mansfield, Tx
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My Challenger weighs about 3300lbs with me in it. I just changed the springs from 150 to 110. It did sit the rear down some but the car seems to work better. The car would unload the tire before and now it doesn't. How old are your springs is it possible they are sagging because they are old?
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ #4 in the World IHRA Stock 2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ 14x Track Champ All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212324
02/03/09 11:09 AM
02/03/09 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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I think I have said this a few times before but once more wont hurt. ALL this stuff is just THEORY, be it suspension engine what ever. The only way to KNOW what will happen is to try it. You have the springs, toss them on and give it a try
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#212325
02/03/09 11:38 AM
02/03/09 11:38 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 729 Lebanon,IN
mr2performance
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super stock
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Lebanon,IN
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140's will work fine. Listen to Al. Mike
MR2PERFORMANCE RACE CARS
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212326
02/03/09 11:51 AM
02/03/09 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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I might make a suggestion, clean all of the suspension points to make sure they arent binding. The 140 will be to stiff but try them since you have them. This stuff isnt theory its math, the one thing that I dont know on your car is the angle of the shock to calculate that in ... the closer you get to 45*, the closer you get to doubling the spring pressure
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#212327
02/03/09 11:57 AM
02/03/09 11:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Well while I will agree that math plays a role in this equation there are no absolutes to it. That is one place you will certainly have an issue with the math theory. I have read Morgans book and sometimes it is just as simple as math. I consider the math a good starting point that will get you in the ballpark. After that you have to try different things to see what is optimal for your car.
Having a little more intimate knowledge of the car in question I think the 140's are worth a shot no matter what.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#212328
02/03/09 12:02 PM
02/03/09 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Well while I will agree that math plays a role in this equation there are no absolutes to it. That is one place you will certainly have an issue with the math theory. I have read Morgans book and sometimes it is just as simple as math. I consider the math a good starting point that will get you in the ballpark. After that you have to try different things to see what is optimal for your car.
Having a little more intimate knowledge of the car in question I think the 140's are worth a shot no matter what.
Like I said.... you have them.... try them
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Chassisman]
#212331
02/03/09 03:11 PM
02/03/09 03:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,746 Riverside, California
Lil Demon
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Quote:
Throw in the 140's...make sure the bolt to bolt is correct on only 1" of preload if their to far extended out of range the 140's are too stiff...but will work...if the bolt to bolt is too close together then their too light(not likely)....get your ride height as close to level as possible...set your bottom bar level or 5 max nose down...top bar 10 degrees and then plot it out...try to hit that 44-47 and 5.5-6.5 up and let her FLY !!!!....now the shock settings will need to be approx 4-6 full stiff on compression and 3-6 full stiff on rebound.Then sneek up on it...make one adjustment at a time...yes your TNT time is limited...Bill...it's gonna take time to get it dialed in...there is no other magic bullet to change that...passes...passes....passes!
I see you got my PM I'm assuming the shock settings are FROM full stiff?
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Lil Demon]
#212332
02/03/09 03:18 PM
02/03/09 03:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,749 Chowchilla,ca
Chassisman
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Chowchilla,ca
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Quote:
Quote:
Throw in the 140's...make sure the bolt to bolt is correct on only 1" of preload if their to far extended out of range the 140's are too stiff...but will work...if the bolt to bolt is too close together then their too light(not likely)....get your ride height as close to level as possible...set your bottom bar level or 5 max nose down...top bar 10 degrees and then plot it out...try to hit that 44-47 and 5.5-6.5 up and let her FLY !!!!....now the shock settings will need to be approx 4-6 full stiff on compression and 3-6 full stiff on rebound.Then sneek up on it...make one adjustment at a time...yes your TNT time is limited...Bill...it's gonna take time to get it dialed in...there is no other magic bullet to change that...passes...passes....passes!
I see you got my PM I'm assuming the shock settings are FROM full stiff?
YES...thats just a quick base line...you really need a video person there shooting down the pass. side of the car like we've talked about before.....what you feel and what actually happens outside the car are entirely different. ....and for some reason a lil voice told me to check moparts this morning....maybe it was the mexico hangover devil pounding my brain....LOL
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Re: Chassis/Suspension Guys - Rear Spring Rates
[Re: Chassisman]
#212333
02/03/09 04:58 PM
02/03/09 04:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,746 Riverside, California
Lil Demon
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Throw in the 140's...make sure the bolt to bolt is correct on only 1" of preload if their to far extended out of range the 140's are too stiff...but will work...if the bolt to bolt is too close together then their too light(not likely)....get your ride height as close to level as possible...set your bottom bar level or 5 max nose down...top bar 10 degrees and then plot it out...try to hit that 44-47 and 5.5-6.5 up and let her FLY !!!!....now the shock settings will need to be approx 4-6 full stiff on compression and 3-6 full stiff on rebound.Then sneek up on it...make one adjustment at a time...yes your TNT time is limited...Bill...it's gonna take time to get it dialed in...there is no other magic bullet to change that...passes...passes....passes!
I see you got my PM I'm assuming the shock settings are FROM full stiff?
YES...thats just a quick base line...you really need a video person there shooting down the pass. side of the car like we've talked about before.....what you feel and what actually happens outside the car are entirely different. ....and for some reason a lil voice told me to check moparts this morning....maybe it was the mexico hangover devil pounding my brain....LOL
<---- (Mexico Hangover Devil)
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