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Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! PICS added #211725 02/02/09 11:33 AM 02/02/09 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda OP I Live Here
aarcuda OP I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	So my car was kind of clackity. been that way for a few months. maybe even since the last time i adjusted the valves back in august or so. who knows. its was a while ago. I just remember always wondering about the clack. especially on the 100 mile drive to the track last summer and in the fall. So yesterday i go and check the lash. (this is on my 416 sb btw). it has the stock TA rockers that were rebuilt and bushed by RAS and the heavy duty banana groove shafts from RAS ALL of the intakes on the passenger side are at about .040 (between .038 and .042). the exhausts were all good at about .020-.023. the intakes on the drivers side were good excpt for 1 which was also out iirc (my numbers are back at the shop) I was supposed to have adjusted the intakes to .018. Sooooo, Did I just screw up and have the feeler gauge doubled up (a .018 and a /019 stuck together)? Are my adjusters loosening? the number of threads showing on the TOP of the rockers (above the adjusters lock nut) were about 3 threads (I have pics I can post tonight) whereas the numbers of threads shown on the tops of the rockers that were close to right (around .020) were none on the exhaust and about 1 on the intakes). the lock nuts were all tight. or is my cam dying? Im thinking I just screwed up and just adjusted them wrong. I remember it was about 100 degrees out the day I adjusted them and I was sticky and sweaty and irritated because of the heat.

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211726 02/02/09 11:40 AM 02/02/09 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	No real way of telling at this time, unless you feel like pulling the intake. Adjust them again and watch them for a bit and see if they loosen up, hopefully you just messed up last time. Also if you feel like it you could cut open the oil filter for a look see

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #211727 02/02/09 11:47 AM 02/02/09 11:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda OP I Live Here
aarcuda OP I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	well i admit I got paranoid several months ago and yanks every lifter thru the head and inspected them and they were looking fine. no concaved bottoms. typical rub marks and swirlies (although not all of them had the swirlies on them. I guess i could pull the rocker gear and yank those intake lifters again... why not. Ive got some time

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211728 02/02/09 12:29 PM 02/02/09 12:29 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,560 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,560 Downtown Roebuck Ont	If the jam nuts were still tight, chances are you just messed up on the adjustment. Kevin

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: Twostick] #211729 02/02/09 01:34 PM 02/02/09 01:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,099 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,099 Bend,OR USA	Quote: If the jam nuts were still tight, chances are you just messed up on the adjustment. Kevin The other, easy way to see if the cam is dying is to cut the oil filter open and inspect every pleat. Usually when the cam is dying it is one or two lobes and as they get worn off they get louder and metal gets toss up into the valve cover area of the heads where you can see it or at least pick it up with a small pocket magnet The other thing is where your adjusting the lash in relation to the bottom of the cam, small blocks with tight LSA are more sensitive to lash adjustment procedures than motors with wide LSA Let us know what you find out Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211730 02/02/09 01:53 PM 02/02/09 01:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,815 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,815 MI, usa	No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed. Doug

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: dvw] #211731 02/02/09 02:24 PM 02/02/09 02:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda OP I Live Here
aarcuda OP I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	Quote: No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed. Doug entirely possible. My lsa is 108 and i adjust them by popping the starter to intake closing- adjust exhaust. exhaust opneing- adjust intake. so im never on exact same place. Maybe I need to do the rotate 90 method..... It just such a pita with the 1/2" drive socket and ratchet down there and doing it from the top. how do you all turn your motors over? from the top or the bottom? (I guess most of you all dont have a big honkin clutch fan in the way like I do)

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211732 02/02/09 05:09 PM 02/02/09 05:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,523 Oakley CA 6 69charger440_6pa pro stock
69charger440_6pa pro stock 6 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,523 Oakley CA	Quote: Quote: No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed. Doug entirely possible. My lsa is 198 and i adjust them by popping the starter to intake closing- adjust exhaust. exhaust opneing- adjust intake. so im never on exact same place. Maybe I need to do the rotate 90 method..... It just such a pita with the 1/2" drive socket and ratchet down there and doing it from the top. how do you all turn your motors over? from the top or the bottom? (I guess most of you all dont have a big honkin clutch fan in the way like I do) well if that is the way you adjusted it it is very possible you were not on the bottom of the lobe. Do the 90* method. I usually turn the motor over from the bottom because for me it is easier. See what works for you. 1969 Charger R/T under construction 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 2006 Corvette Z06 2015 Corvette Z06 2014 BMW M5

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: 69charger440_6pa] #211733 02/02/09 05:20 PM 02/02/09 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,633 Jacksonville, NC RonP top fuel
RonP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,633 Jacksonville, NC	Quote: Quote: Quote: No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed. Doug entirely possible. My lsa is 198 and i adjust them by popping the starter to intake closing- adjust exhaust. exhaust opneing- adjust intake. so im never on exact same place. Maybe I need to do the rotate 90 method..... It just such a pita with the 1/2" drive socket and ratchet down there and doing it from the top. how do you all turn your motors over? from the top or the bottom? (I guess most of you all dont have a big honkin clutch fan in the way like I do) well if that is the way you adjusted it it is very possible you were not on the bottom of the lobe. Do the 90* method. I usually turn the motor over from the bottom because for me it is easier. See what works for you. I could be wrong and I probably am, but isn't the 90Degree method the least accurate when it comes to these performance cams. I know on my last couple using the 90degree was way off. The last two cam profiles I had I was adjusting the intake when the exhaust just opened and I adjust the exhaust when the intake goes fully open and just starts to close.

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: 69charger440_6pa] #211734 02/02/09 05:26 PM 02/02/09 05:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,815 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,815 MI, usa	I bump the starter at the relay. My race cars are wired in with a button. Wire between the large stud of the relay and the terminal at the yellow wire at the relay. This way the engine won't crank unless its in park or nuetral. Start at #1 in the firing order. Set the intake just as the exhaust opens. Set the exhaust when the intake is just closed. some cams will like the exhaust set slightly sooner such as 3/4 of the way closed. It depends on the ramps. try it both ways to see if there is a change. After a few trys of "bumping the button you will get the feel for it. If you miss just crank it back around. Doug

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: dvw] #211735 02/02/09 09:11 PM 02/02/09 09:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda OP I Live Here
aarcuda OP I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust... 4995921-SDC10276.JPG (70 downloads)

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211736 02/02/09 09:32 PM 02/02/09 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 345 Ontario, Canada H Hyper Henry enthusiast
Hyper Henry enthusiast H Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 345 Ontario, Canada	This may seem dumb but pull some of the adjusing screws out of the rockers and check the balls and see if they are all the same. Thought I had a cam going last summer and started to tear in down at the track and happned to notice the balls on the ends of the adjusting screws were wearing real bad on some of them. I was running Cranes at the time and happened to have some spares with me so I was back up and running for last time trial Derrick

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: Hyper Henry] #211737 02/02/09 09:52 PM 02/02/09 09:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,523 Oakley CA 6 69charger440_6pa pro stock
69charger440_6pa pro stock 6 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,523 Oakley CA	Looking at the pic it is possible that you doubled up the feeler gauge like you suggested. I would set the lash again and go from there 1969 Charger R/T under construction 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 2006 Corvette Z06 2015 Corvette Z06 2014 BMW M5

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: 69charger440_6pa] #211738 02/02/09 10:06 PM 02/02/09 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio dartman366 I Live Here
dartman366 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio	What Hyper Henry said is quite possible cause it happened to me once with a set of Harlan Sharp's that had a set of adjuster's that were heat treated wrong, and the balls on the adjuster's looked like footballs, couldent figure why I kept loosing adjustment. Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: Hyper Henry] #211739 02/02/09 10:22 PM 02/02/09 10:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda OP I Live Here
aarcuda OP I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	Quote: This may seem dumb but pull some of the adjusing screws out of the rockers and check the balls and see if they are all the same. Thought I had a cam going last summer and started to tear in down at the track and happned to notice the balls on the ends of the adjusting screws were wearing real bad on some of them. I was running Cranes at the time and happened to have some spares with me so I was back up and running for last time trial Derrick I will check them for sure. I recall RAS telling me they replaced some of my adjusters when they rebuilt them. not saying these are the replaced ones or the originals but heck, anything is better than a flat cam. even a doubled feeler cluster muck

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211740 02/03/09 10:32 AM 02/03/09 10:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,948 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,948 U.S.S.A.	Quote: check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust... steve , when checking screw length difference the important thread count is the screw threads showing on the PUSHROD side , you want no more than 3 on the bottom side .

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: JohnRR] #211741 02/03/09 11:12 AM 02/03/09 11:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda OP I Live Here
aarcuda OP I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	Quote: Quote: check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust... steve , when checking screw length difference the important thread count is the screw threads showing on the PUSHROD side , you want no more than 3 on the bottom side . ya I know that and Im good on that. I put the picture up to show how i may have screwed up the adjustment of those intakes. They have more thread showing than the exhausts by a few threads- ie, they are looser

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! [Re: aarcuda] #211742 02/03/09 11:24 AM 02/03/09 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: Quote: check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust... steve , when checking screw length difference the important thread count is the screw threads showing on the PUSHROD side , you want no more than 3 on the bottom side . ya I know that and Im good on that. I put the picture up to show how i may have screwed up the adjustment of those intakes. They have more thread showing than the exhausts by a few threads- ie, they are looser I believe you just messed up when adjusting the lash, like you show the intakes are showing more threads ON TOP.... re-set the lash and have fun beating on it

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