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Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2140000
08/24/16 04:26 PM
08/24/16 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

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More tools! This is always a great solution... thumbs I'll get that kit cuz it'll apply the blunt force more directly that the rattling chains.

Mike, thanks - that's the kind of thing that will work... My thought is to set up a ram or jack situation that puts a lot of Constant force on the axle flange, then use the slide hammer to apply the added blunt force to break the !@&^#$ race free...

(Full Disclosure: I am going to see if I can rotate the 'closure plate' such that the "flat spot" clears the axle housing flange and I can try my "bolt idea" where the closure plate is out of the way..

...once it breaks free I'm golden - if it can move a millimeter, it can move an inch.

Whew - this whole project has def put a dent in my automotive ego. My joints ache, my muscles are sore, I'm wracking my brains for solutions - so THANKS for all your advice.

On the brighter side, automotive things haven't gone this bad in many years so I'm due.. BTW - Did I mention the steering rack on my Alfa Romeo is worn out and the whole thing needs replaced? Another FUN project just sitting there staring at me with it's beady little eyes..

BUT - tomorrow I take a break and drive to MD with the kids to visit in-laws. I'll be the guy lounging by the pool with an ice cold Margerita.

Cheers,
- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2140257
08/24/16 10:55 PM
08/24/16 10:55 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Art, it is Murphys Law & it WILL pass & we're behind you all the way (shouting encouragement & hollering at you to pull harder)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: RapidRobert] #2140473
08/25/16 10:14 AM
08/25/16 10:14 AM
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Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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The member whose name is actually Art

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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Art, it is Murphys Law & it WILL pass & we're behind you all the way (shouting encouragement & hollering at you to pull harder)


laugh2 thumbs


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2150655
09/08/16 09:48 PM
09/08/16 09:48 PM
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Posts: 5,100
Western Md.
skicker Offline
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Vacation is over... biggrin
You've had a couple weeks to analyze this...Whats the verdict??? shruggy


...FAFO...
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2153432
09/13/16 12:16 AM
09/13/16 12:16 AM
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Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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Thanks for aksin'...

..Tried and tried and kept trying...heated it up w plumbers torch, scalded my arm, sweated and swore... Had some buddies over to help tackle it, more sweating and swearing, finally I broke the slide hammer - cracked the cast flange-fitting right in half..
Nothing is going €##}$@ anywhere.

Now I'm asking around locally for another 8-3/4 rear end to swap in.

My driveshaft isn't the old slip yoke type, my diff case is a good 742 with factory spec 2.76 ratio (AC car) that I like well enough on highway trips... But I bet I'll get a 3.23. I'm thinking I could swap my 742 into whatever 8-3/4 I get. Any thoughts?

For now, I'll start dropping the whole thing out of the car.

Cheers,
- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2153458
09/13/16 12:59 AM
09/13/16 12:59 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I'm thinking I could swap my 742 into whatever 8-3/4 I get. Any thoughts?
Well well well the Prodical son returns! yes your 2.76/742 will drop into any 65 up housing/axle setup that does not have the earlier big nut on the ends as possibly the early is different. EDIT its gonna be enlightening to find out what was binding things up inside

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/13/16 01:01 AM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: RapidRobert] #2153561
09/13/16 10:31 AM
09/13/16 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Quote:
I'm thinking I could swap my 742 into whatever 8-3/4 I get. Any thoughts?
... its gonna be enlightening to find out what was binding things up inside


What I can see from the outside of the race - after turning the adjuster ring all the way off the securing plate/ring - is rust. Otherwise everything looks normal.

The grease at the bearing race is rust colored, and a bit dried. The grease IN the bearing is black.

So I assume the rust has gotten in behind the race and expanded such that it binds around the outer race.

But I just @&^%#$ realized something - unless I get the shaft out, I'm not going to get my 742 out either.... ..am I?

@*&^$#&^$ '
- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2153566
09/13/16 10:48 AM
09/13/16 10:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

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Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Here is what it looked like a couple days ago...







Now, imagine I put on 4-5 more of those 'expanding bolts' to pressure the axleshaft's flange outward from the 8-3/4" tube's flange ... plus I broke the slide hammer.





Good times..

Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 09/13/16 10:50 AM.

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: RapidRobert] #2153567
09/13/16 10:49 AM
09/13/16 10:49 AM
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Posts: 5,100
Western Md.
skicker Offline
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A couple thoughts...
The early housing is exactly 1" shorter overall (53 5/16" vs 54 5/16") than the one for the 65. It would be an option if you were looking for something narrower due to tire clearance. Cass has green bearing axles available for this that eliminates the nut assembly however you would need to re-use your backing plates and drums because they're different than the pre 65 ones. This wouldn't be the best option to go financially...
If you wanted to save the 2.76 to put into a new housing you will have to cut the old housing off or figure out how to get the axle out.
I know I have a decent 65 housing and a pair of axles but shipping would be a killer.
Be sure to source another backing plate for the RR unless your going to cut the end off of the axle to save it.

I just got new axles from Cass for my 65 housing since I needed them with green bearings and no plate between the bearing and flange due to using Wilwood brakes. I have a decent set of used axles if you need them.

The point your at I would think the housing end is probably damaged possibly beyond being able to be reused. Cut the end off the axle and save the backing plate and hardware then cut the housing so the axle will come out to get the pig out. Another 65 housing and a pair of axles...assemble and you should be good to go... shruggy

If it was me I would cut your housing right behind the backing plate where the tube ends to get the axle out and maybe someone else could then use it for a narrowed rear... twocents


...FAFO...
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: skicker] #2153571
09/13/16 10:55 AM
09/13/16 10:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,100
Western Md.
skicker Offline
"The Champ"
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But I just @&^%#$ realized something - unless I get the shaft out, I'm not going to get my 742 out either.... ..am I? rant rant

DING DING DING....we have a winner! boogie

sorry Art... tonguue


...FAFO...
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: skicker] #2153574
09/13/16 10:58 AM
09/13/16 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Originally Posted By skicker


The point your at I would think the housing end is probably damaged possibly beyond being able to be reused. Cut the end off the axle and save the backing plate and hardware then cut the housing so the axle will come out to get the pig out. Another 65 housing and a pair of axles...assemble and you should be good to go... shruggy

If it was me I would cut your housing right behind the backing plate where the tube ends to get the axle out and maybe someone else could then use it for a narrowed rear... twocents


Yep, that was my thinking, drop the whole thing minus the brake lines. Get the axle out and the pig. Then stuff it all back in a cleaned up 8-3/4 housing from a salvage yard. Thanks for confirming it's one of the ways I can take this forward. I have a good cutting saw I can use.

My hunch is the cut housing won't be worth much around here. Our area has at least 3 salvage yards well stocked with '60s Mopars, so I'll see what they have for 8-3/4 housings and I'll measure the length before I commit.

Cheers,
- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2153650
09/13/16 12:45 PM
09/13/16 12:45 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Art I could use a shortened housing center & some lengths of housing so you might cut the minimal you need to resolve this. shipping might be a killer & likely after all this you just wanna torch the Hell out of the [censored] to resolve things (& I dont blame you!). Keep us updated. Your luck WILL change!


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2153814
09/13/16 04:59 PM
09/13/16 04:59 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Art if you are going to get another housing just sawzall the axle tube around the axle and it will come out of the center section.
Or you could cut the axle end off say 3/4 inch behind the flange and have a new end welded to your current housing , that will save the housing and save the axle .

I haven't seen pictures ... haven't checked this thread at home but your expanding bolts comment scare me , where was the adjuster plate during this ??? hopefully against the back of the axle flange?

Time for a cutting torch and burn the bearing out ... but you need to get the oil out of the center ...



running up my post count some more .
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: JohnRR] #2154060
09/13/16 10:59 PM
09/13/16 10:59 PM
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Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
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The member whose name is actually Art

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Thank you, Skicker, RRobert, John, and all,
I'll pull the whole rear end out by Thursday, and cut the tube as nicely as I can close to the brake backer plate (this will tie in nicely with my middle son having some teeth pulled tomorrow morning)..

And John, yes - you can probably see the pics above from a different computer that I had the adjuster ring and plate unbolted and pulled out of the way against the axle flange. And the tube flange studs I knocked out so that the 'expander bolts' only acted between the back of the axle flange and the front of the brake backer plate..

..I distributed these bolts around the perimeter, so I doubt I bent the flange of the axle, but I'll have a machine shop check it is "true" after I do the cutting...

..and just because I cut it loose doesn't mean I'll get the race out of that remaining chunk of tube, but I'll take it to a machine shop and ask what they do with it.. I think they can stand it up, rig some blocks to press on the tube flange while it stand on the axle's splined end... and start pressing... I wish I could be there when their 20ton press finally POPs that !IO&#% thing outta there...

Cheers,
- Art


Originally Posted By JohnRR
Art if you are going to get another housing just sawzall the axle tube around the axle and it will come out of the center section.
Or you could cut the axle end off say 3/4 inch behind the flange and have a new end welded to your current housing , that will save the housing and save the axle .

I haven't seen pictures ... haven't checked this thread at home but your expanding bolts comment scare me , where was the adjuster plate during this ??? hopefully against the back of the axle flange?

Time for a cutting torch and burn the bearing out ... but you need to get the oil out of the center ...



65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2154401
09/14/16 02:44 PM
09/14/16 02:44 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Once you hack the flange off getting the race out cleaning doesn't really matter , more work$$ , just torch it off .

Migh be a good idea to buy the replacement axle end that will use the mopar factory tapered bearing before cuting the axle tube that way you know how much not to remove ? Do it with a little extra so the person the welds it duplicates the length.

Might be a good idea to just take it down to the weld shop still intact and have them cut it off so it's welded back at the proper length ?

But if you get a new housing then you can just cut it anywhere to get the axle out of the chunk.


running up my post count some more .
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2154576
09/14/16 07:06 PM
09/14/16 07:06 PM
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Groveland, MA
SteveS Offline
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I think it's time for John to take a ride out there!


Steve

Someday I'll have another C-body.
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2154737
09/14/16 10:25 PM
09/14/16 10:25 PM
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Ok now I can see the pictures , that thing is in there good , I am surprised that heat didn't help break the bond , Art are you using Propane or MAPP ? Mapp will get hotter.

I MIGHT be going to LV next month , I could come by and we could get that thing apart , I have that same axle slide hammer and I had a bear of a time get wheel bearings out of an 04 1500 , but I didn't BREAK it ... yikes ...


running up my post count some more .
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: SteveS] #2154738
09/14/16 10:26 PM
09/14/16 10:26 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted By SteveS
I think it's time for John to take a ride out there!


Are you offering to drive Steve wink


running up my post count some more .
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: JohnRR] #2154984
09/15/16 11:04 AM
09/15/16 11:04 AM
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Groveland, MA
SteveS Offline
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Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By SteveS
I think it's time for John to take a ride out there!


Are you offering to drive Steve wink


Hah! I have two dead cars of my own to work on!


Steve

Someday I'll have another C-body.
Re: School this rookie: "RRRRRR" sound from rear diff... [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2155105
09/15/16 02:24 PM
09/15/16 02:24 PM
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Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

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Albany, NY
Thanks guys,
It'll save you both the trouble when I tell you I cut the end off already.. but maybe hook up w/you at LV - is it the Mopars in the Valley weekend?

CURRENT STATUS:
- I indexed the tube to the flange, then I cut the flange end off the axle tube between the leaf spring perch and the thicker flange end. The splined end slid right out.
- I took both axles to the machine shop this morning.
- They'll try pressing the "bad" axle out of the cut flange end. They'll stand it up on the splined end and press from "below" using the brake plate as a stopper, but I told them they will probably just bend that and if so just cut that off then they can grab the tube flange.

What are your thoughts:
- Am I better off sourcing a new diff and axle housing, or is it worth the effort to have the shop re-weld my flange end back onto my housing? The diff oil in my case was unbelievably clean, so I'm confident my diff is good.

A.) The shop said they could probably weld my original flange end back on. The tube is indexed and the overall length someone wrote in a comment in this thread. I wonder how "true' they can weld it back together? I assume the material I cut away is just replaced by weld. We didn't discuss details, the bearing surface in the end I cut off could be ruined as far as we know. But the shop was willing to consider rewelding it.

B.) If I get a whole nother rear end, I'd be having to clean it all up, repaint it, and if I can trust the pig in it (how do I even know that?) just stick my axles with new bearings in and do the stock taper end-play adjustment with the gauge. If I want my original 742 pumpkin, then I take mine apart and stick it in the new diff axle housing.

I'll share what the shop finds.
- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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