Well I see David Barton won his 3rd in a row driving a Chevy.I guess these day's you just drive what you can win in!

He's driving where he gets some support. After all the winning and development he has done with Gen 2 and then the national records in the Gen 3 Hemis you would think "Mopar" would give them some support. Nope, BES got the contracts on the 354 Drag Packs and everything else this year. Barton is just showing those idiots how stupid they are.

Pretty much been Mopar's MO for years. Give money to Chevy guys, let true Mopar guys go to hell.

I don't usually root against the Mopar. But in this case.......go get 'em Dave!

Penske: Thanks for sticking with us and winning us a Championship, but
Allen Johnson: ditto
Viper Tudor team: ditto
TA2 Trans Am series team: ditto
basically if you kick a$$ with their brand, they find someone who costs more and wins less......or only support NHRA popularity contests.

It seems like nothings sacred.

A man has to decide if he's going to be satisfied being a purist and/or a starving artist or will he change with the times and go where the money and opportunity is. I guess Dave and his family like to eat. It's not 2004 anymore.

And pretty soon all interest in the sport will be lost, the ONLY reason to ever watch has been to see Mopar do well and win. When is is all Chivvy then I might as well watch international tiddlywinks...

You have to be very loyal to support Mopar. They make it hard to do.

Isnt that the truth.. hell try buying any MP parts
besides the chrome dipstick.... and that doesnt even
matter on price

Can't sit around waiting on Tony to make damned blocks and heads. The AH and other class legal stuff has to have Mopar numbers on it except for some Edelbrock heads for wedge motors. Can't be mad at Barton for not supporting Mopar. More like the other way around.

Just another reason I love the Nostalgia Super Stock racing the best. Ron

Racers race..........the badge on the side doesn't much matter to them. Didn't see much complaining when Wescott, who had always run Chevy, decided to try his hand with the HEMI

^^^^ That's because 90% of racers thinks hes a Toolbag.

Who didn't see this coming when they(Bartons) had been working on a COPO? There are quite a few Guys that race/drive different makes.

Exactly right.

The Bartons know how to win, I'm satisfied if they got into go carts they'd be at the top of the field in short order.

Anymore I wouldn't blast anyone for going to a gm or ford. It's really disheartening to pick up just about any parts catalog and see what's available for them. Also I think gm and ford from a corporate stand point are more user friendly than chrysler. My $.02.

They are, look at the number of customers.
Money talks

Yep, and he sold parts and made money at it. When the Hemi stuff started to fall off, he parked his and went in a different direction. The Factory Stock stuff is a big deal now and Barton jumped right in and is doing well. It has to be easier parts wise, less time and labor intensive, with combinations that haven't been beat to death for 40 years. And I'm sure the line of customers with FS cars is a lot longer than the AH line these days.

Part of drag racing's ( and other racing venues ) demise. It's all about $, personalities, and coming in third, winning. Pretty soon you won't be able to find "loyalty" in the dictionary. From a technical aspect, everything has been engineered down to - - - ONE BEST. Only thing to change it would be a rule change.

What does loyalty have to do with people who race for a living? It's about winning and you choose the combination that gives you the best chance of that.

People can speculate all they want on why Mopar gave money to this person and not this person. But the fact is WE don't know. It was a business decision. Maybe Mopar DID want Barton, but to get him was going to cost more than they were willing to pay. Racing at this level is BUSINESS, not a hobby

Most guys here, LOVE their Mopars and couldn't imagine being in something else. Most real racers really don't care that much about brands. If you read up, most of the "old school" guys chose Mopar originally because of the Max Wedge or the HEMI and thought they could win with it. And also Chrysler was heavy into racing at the time. So they chose Mopar NOT because of the brand, but because of equipment or opportunity. It's the same now

This particular car was built and payed for by Gary Wolkwitz who also campaigns a SS/AH car. David guided the build from what I've read and was given a platform to increase his business exposure. When most people think of Ray Barton Racing Engines, they typically think of a business that specializes in only doing Mopars, so him being given this opportunity is giving him a chance to show just how talented the Ray Barton Racing Engines team is with what they do.

The Barton's are also involved with Ford engines too. David's name and number were on a certain black and orange Mustang....They are running a business, and need to generate income. I would work on all makes as well if I owned a shop like the Bartons.

Not even close.... The Bartons needed a good platform to race and the Challenger wasn't it. Chevy bent over backwards to not only get Gary a car, but also WORKED WITH THEM!!

Chrysler seems to have forgotten where they came from, nor do they care. No loyalty and no parts. No B/RB blocks or heads for SS racers, and the Hemi racers have to worry when (not if) the block and head castings dry up.... And I wont even go into the Blown DragPak out of the Barton stable

Exactly

"David's name and number were on a certain black and orange Mustang"

I thought I saw that somewhere, but couldn't find it and just assumed I was dreaming.

"Chrysler seems to have forgotten where they came from, nor do they care."

That company doesn't exist anymore.

Cook Brothers car in Super Stock.

True, but back in the day those guys didn't change brands every ten minutes. The people in the stands ( and there actually were some ) knew Jenkins was chevy, Glidden was ford, etc. Yes, they jumped around a bit, but now the few left in the stands need a f--ckin score card. The focus is no longer on car brand name, but the driver / builder / owner name. Just think it hurt the ("BUSINESS") a bit. When it's all business, you get what you got - very fast jelly beans.

Back then, Mopar was Mopar.
That was then. They are pathetic now.

I guess people forget that Jake King was a ford mechanic, before being paid to built hemi's...
Or that Ronnie Sox started out racing Chevys before being paid to race Mopars...
Or that King Richard was paid to race a Ford in 1969...
Or that Grumpy Jenkins raced Mopars before going to Chevrolet...
When racing is what you do for a living...brand loyalty goes out the window, if the money stops coming in.
If you have a successful racing operation, making large amounts of money, racing a Mopar, then all of a sudden Mopar pulls the plug on funding, but GM or ford are willing to support you, are you going to continue to race out of pocket due to brand loyalty, close up your operation, and take a job in a factory somewhere, or go where the money is??

Brand loyalty is fine for the average car guy, but not when it's your business/lively hood.

My point was that Mopar dropped the ball big-time. I don't blame Barton one bit.

Agree and understand all of that. Just saying IMO it hurt the sport a bit when it became ALL about money and big business. The people that filled the stands and supported drag racing ( in the beginning at least ) were not about big $ and big business. Things change, not sure all for the better. If you look at the success of the street racing thing, although those guys spend cubic $, the program theme is not about the $ or big business. Most that watch it have no clue about the $ spent or drag racing in general. It's all about the personalities which they attached to the cars ( reads brand loyalty in a weird kinda way. )

You can thank the snake and mongoose for bringing in big business to drag racing.
But, without the influx of sponcer money, drag racing would have died years ago.

Racing has been a business for some drivers, builders, manufacturers & track owners for decades, there's just a few more zeros behind the $ than there was 20-30 years ago. If you want to stay competitive you have to have the resources & funds to do it.
Mopar is simply not as interested racing as Ford & GM are.

I can understand why racers change brands as they have to try to win if they can and make money when you do it for a living. I think brand loyal was much more in the 60's and 70's as I know when I watched racing in the 70's I wanted the car I liked to win as I did not care who drove it. I wanted Mopar to win and if Bil Jenkins had been in a Mopar I would have wanted his car to win.
Today they all vote for the drivers and not the car. But hey all the Pro cars look the same today anyway and you cant tell one brand from another. And as was said Mopar today is not what it used to be when it comes to racer support. Myself I would say I am still brand loyal but I do like all muscle car I just like Mopar first and always will but I can appreciate any cool muscle car. Course I am just some poor little guy who still loves to watch the cars of the 60's and 70's race. Thats why I like the NSS racing as its what I grew up loving and I can actually tell which cars are Mopars or Fords and Chevy's. But I dont blame for racers doing what they have to do today. Ron

"But hey, all pro cars look the same today" - $ and big business did that. Technology boiled down to "one best". I gotta look at the decal packages. Interesting to see who is still left in the stands at a big NHRA meet after the big 3 have made their passes.

I have raced every brand now--- Mopar, Ford and Chevy If they run good I like them! I love a Mopar! But...I have had some good laps in other brands--bottom line is I like going fast and working to win a race--That is what I am loyal to--CI's, HP and Speed!
Fiat don't give two bleeps about Mopars past

When Bob Glidden was on top, he ran a Camaro for 1 race, I can't recall if it was before or after the 340 Arrow.
So he ran a Ford, Chrysler and GM in Pro Stock before 1982.

Grumpy ran a Hemi in 1965.

Wayne County was known for their Chevies before they won Championships with the Daytona, although they did have a Hemi SS/B in 1967.

Dyno Don ran a 409 Chevy before he became known as a Ford racer.


Successful racers run the combo they can win (make money) with.

For the longest time guys in pro stock ran cars with
the longest front end.. they knew they were making the
track shorter... thats why they put a rule limit on the
length of the front end... thats why camero and firebirds
were the winners.... in the big ranks.. look how many fords
are out there now... ford is getting out of drag racing also

Glidden ran a Monza. Lingenfelter ended up with it.

Glidden switched to Mopar for the simple reason that Ford refused to give him any money. So Mopar bought him.

I don't think this is true. Gladden switched because NHRA was factoring him almost every run. So he switched to a Chrysler an dominated and NHRA went to factoring him again. So back to Ford.

That is why PS has the rules it now does. Trying to keep the bean counters out of racing as best they can.

Slantzilla's right, it was a Monza, not a Camaro.

It was a DNQ at the only race he ran with it.

Glidden said himself he switched because prior to him running the Arrow Ford hadn't even given him a pair of valve caver gaskets. He went back to Ford because Mopar went broke. Again, his own words.

So I just read an interview Glidden did for HR magazine. I read what he said. Fortunately, I was THER and I lived through it. He says in the interview he was getting weight breaks with the Chrysler and he dominated, like he did with the ford. He was no more broke with Chrysler than ford.

He was the most factored car in PS. He was sick of it. He may have went back to ford because he got a bone, but it was mostly about factoring. Still is today. Chrysler racers get corn holed by NHRA and yet Chrysler racers still keep taking it.

It was about factoring.

So talking to Bob in person doesn't count?

What counts is what he said in print, at the time. Not what he remembers 30 years later.

If you think he wasn't getting factored every week, all you have to do is go back and read the National Dragster from those years. It's all in print.

That's why you don't read a book about WWII written by a guy who talked to a guy who was there 30 years ago. You need to read what was written when it was happening.

or the other side of things are guys my age, im 22 years old just finished restoring my 71 challenger but as much as I love mopars and want to restore another challenger, cudas chargers ect. im looking into a 13 year old mustang to make a racecar because they are cheap, plenty of them out there and I can open up a catalog and get anything you want. they are hard to beat for the price. at my age its difficult to play with the old iron and still have money to put away for the future. my $.02

Barton brought pro stock tech to SS/AH when he hired some of the best pro stock minds to help improve cam and valve train issues. He started it and it really took off. The last couple of years before Jenkins passed he contacted a well know GM racer and talked him into letting the Grump build some SS/AH motors. Jack Roush was involved a short time in a blue & silver Cuda. Nickens built some power plants for a Texas AH racer and now with Reher & Morrison and Jason Line in the mix, where will it end.

Factored every week. No way as they did not change rules every week in Pro Stock. Honestly I only ever remember Pro Stock rules changing at the end or beginning of a season. Ron

Yes, rules changed often, but the fact remains Chrysler offered Bob money when Ford wasn't.

You're not tho only old guy on the board either. I went to my first race in 1974, so I was kinda there too. Lol!

If I was 22 again I'd go the same route as you with a turbo LS.


As far as Barton running a GM, Glidden in a Mopar or Line building a Hemi it only proves that sharp guys can make anything run hard, period! They're all air pumps, more air in equals more power out. These guys are smart enough to recognize and fix the short comings no matter what make.

Where did I say they were changing the rules? I never said that. I said he was getting factored. BIG DIFFERENCE.

In fact, I'd bet big money if you went back and did the research, you will find that Glidden threaten to drag the Ford back out if they factored (added weight) to the Arrow once more.

One of the FEW good things about getting old. You got to live through it. Other that that, getting old ain't for sissys.

Bob went to the Mopar for one reason........At the time, the SBM had a favorable weight per cubic inch and also Ford had made him mad. After the year he dominated with the Arrow, Ford stepped up with more help. Mopar offered to match it, but Bob had a shop full of Ford stuff.

Pro Stock at the time was weight per cube and those weights varied with the type engine it was. The Cleveland Ford had been hit hard and the SBM got to run MUCH lighter, because it did NOT make near as much power. Factors were not changed on a weekly basis and when they were changed, it wasn't JUST Glidden, it was anyone who ran that combination.

When NHRA went to the 500" combination, Glidden dominated for one reason. The BBF had a 4.900 bore space from the factory and a HEMI head available

How can you factor a Pro Stock car without changing the rules ? In fact I cant see what could be factored on a Pro Stock car other then rule changes. I mean its not like Super Stock car where they can add weight when ever they want ? Ron

The NHRA added weight to Pro Stock every time Glidden won a round. They did it to him in the Ford. Did it to him in the Plymouth. By about half way through the 1979 season the Arrow had been factored to the point Glidden was about to bring the Ford back out. The Arrow had lost its weight advantage.

So yes, NHRA could add weight whenever they felt like it. They still do it to this day.

Glidden wasn't running a Hemi head on his 500" BBF's, they were a 48 cc quench chambered design.

The NHRA added weight to Pro Stock every time Glidden won a round. They did it to him in the Ford. Did it to him in the Plymouth. By about half way through the 1979 season the Arrow had been factored to the point Glidden was about to bring the Ford back out. The Arrow had lost its weight advantage.

So yes, NHRA could add weight whenever they felt like it. They still do it to this day. [/quote]


It just seems funny that I followed Pro Stock alot back then and never heard of any Pro Stock car being factored with weight added like that during the season. I only ever heard that on Pro Stock cars at the end or begining of a season. I would have figured if that did it weekly as you stated I would have read about it as I am sure racers would have complained about that. I just dont remember ever reading or hearing about that during the race season. Course you are right as NHRA will do what they want and wont care what the racers say about it. I remember reading about Buddy Martin talking to Wally Parks about giving the Mopars a better break after they added weight to the Mopars and Parks basically said Chevy and Ford have the most money so we dont care about Mopar. Ron

When Pro Stock first started all engines used a 7 lb. per CI weight break. As particular engine combos showed to be quick they were given weight, or allowed to remive weight based on track performance. NHRA did add weight to the 426 Hemi based combos, as they dominated the first couple years of the class. I don't ever recall weekly weight adjustments, but I remember the 426 Hemi based combos ended up getting a lot of weight back off toward the end of the small CI era, and them having the lowest weight per CI factor of 6.4 lbs. per CI.

Np Mention of factoring.. only bankruptcy.

HRM] Why did you go to Plymouth in 1979?

BG] In the late 1970s I was not financially involved with Ford, period. And Chrysler came along and offered me, it wasn’t much money, but it was a lot more than nothing, plus all of the parts I needed. So we raced the Plymouth for one year. We had a three- year contract, but the following year, when Chrysler went bankrupt, my contract got voided. It was just the way things went.

HRM] What did you think of the Arrow?

BG] We won every race that year but two with the Plymouth. It was a small-block 340. After that year, Ford sent a person down to our shop to meet with me and we put together, at that point, still a small deal, but small deals were better than nothing, put that together with me to race Ford again.

Ron I may have embellished a bit on the weekly thing. Wasn't weekly but they were changing the weight breaks during the year.

Haven't they changed the weight breaks on the pro stock bikes during the year? I don't follow that very close.

Pro Mod used to be in the same boat. They were adding weight and changing displacement on a fairly regular basis.

IIRC, they went through the the same thing in the blown alcohol classes. When the screw blowers first came out they were beating them up pretty good. With out looking at the rule book, I think the SBC still gets a fairly big weight break in TAD which is how Santos did so well for years.

So there is still a record of NHRA doing the dirty to try and level the playing field just like ASScar, although not as bad as ASScar in most cases.

I know for me, I was done with Chrysler when I was fighting to get blueprints for W5 heads. I was pretty much told to pack sand. Then, the topper was when Chrysler went back to ASScar and took out full page ads apologizing for the hemi kicking ass and therefore, the ASScar ban of the hemi was correct, righteous, wonderful and th only thing to do in th name of safety and fairness.

I detest sniveling pukes and Chrysler did that. I was done.

So yes, I may have embellished on the weekly factoring and maybe I should have said hourly so no one would miss the cut of my jib. But it was happening several times a year when someone was turning on a win light with a Chrysler product.

Yes, I read all that. But like I said, I lived through it. Go back and see if you can find archived National Dragster articles. I stopped asking NHRA about them years ago. Im sure they have them but can't seem to find them published. I bet you could find many a discussion in those pages about this in there. In fact, I'd love to see old copies of SuperStock and Drag Illustrated during the era. Bet they covered it. In fact, NHRA hated that publication so bad, they use HRM to buy it out and then killed it, right after I signed up for a 6 year subscription renewal. Then I was substituted HRM instead. I sent them back every month, for years.

I remember reading in a magazine years ago about NHRA adding weight to the Hemi Colts almost every week trying to slow them down. And they ended up weighing almost 700lbs more than everybody else.

Skip to 5:23.. or watch from the beginning..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYtIQ0cMSMg