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Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
#208582
01/30/09 12:29 PM
01/30/09 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,761
Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,761
Holland MI Ottawa
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Before affordable stroker kits mopar guys could..If I recall correctly buy a stroker crank or have a 440 crank welded/regound, use oem 440 rods and smogger off the shelf cast pistons in an RB block. This made 500 cubes. Heavy rotating assembly (compared to current stuff) and not recommended beyond 5500 RPM but a big torquer none the less. My question: Could a cheap stroker (reliable street only engine) be made now with a new stroker crank (under $400) and then oem rods and off the shelf cheap cast low compression 440 pistons? Would the pan rail need clearencing? Bouchillion Performance in the early 90s advertised a stroker kit this way. They recommended the mopar 484 cam and no bigger. Specifically said the 509 made no more power.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: 2boltmain]
#208583
01/30/09 12:40 PM
01/30/09 12:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I've been on this myself. definitely want cast pistons & I had checked out some 403 olds pistons. 4.351" bore/1.585 CH. they're on eGay for cheap. I'd prefer a B block & I'd have to fab an external oiling system. I haven't found the right combo yet
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: AndyF]
#208585
01/30/09 02:17 PM
01/30/09 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I don't think you can get parts for less money than a 440Source stroker kit. Maybe if you find a cast piston that works but I'm not so sure there are any. KB might have a cast piston for stroker motors so you could start there.
Actually Indy is selling a kit right now for LESS and if you look on ebay they are available
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: MLR426]
#208587
01/30/09 03:37 PM
01/30/09 03:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The original old school 500 inch was to
get an old caddy 500" engine
logan426
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: 2boltmain]
#208588
01/30/09 04:46 PM
01/30/09 04:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Before affordable stroker kits mopar guys could..If I recall correctly buy a stroker crank or have a 440 crank welded/regound, use oem 440 rods and smogger off the shelf cast pistons in an RB block. This made 500 cubes. Heavy rotating assembly (compared to current stuff) and not recommended beyond 5500 RPM but a big torquer none the less. My question: Could a cheap stroker (reliable street only engine) be made now with a new stroker crank (under $400) and then oem rods and off the shelf cheap cast low compression 440 pistons?
Smogger 440 pistons have a higher compression height than your typical stroker piston for a 4.15" stroke crank. They'd be around .020 or so above deck. No problem there, just use a little bit thicker head gasket and you are good to go. Problem is they've got no valve reliefs so I don't think you could really run much of a cam. Yeah you can buy a jig to cut valve reliefs but by the time you've gone through all that BS you might as well have just dropped the $440 for a set of forged KB pistons for that stroker combo.
BTW, where do you get a stroker crank for under 400 bucks? 
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: 2boltmain]
#208590
01/30/09 07:00 PM
01/30/09 07:00 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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We used to use a welded stroker crank, stock rods and 400 pistons.
All you would save now is maybe $100 by using cast 400 pistons. You'll be much better off using a new crank (for less than we used to pay to have them welded) and specific pistons with valve reliefs and the correct deck height. Nothing to be saved here.
Sheldon
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#208593
01/30/09 11:07 PM
01/30/09 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,870
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,870
Weddington, N.C.
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Actually the "on the Cheap" was to reuse your 400 pistons (Longer CH 440's won't work) and bore your 440 block to 4.342" (.022 over) and then (IIRC) use the 4.15 crank and the 440 LY rod and you get ~491 cubes.
You might need to check my math but I think that's right...at least it's feasible.
It'll be heavy and I think the slug still winds up down in the hole but the bottom end will lighter than a stock 440 and it'll be cheap (the cost of the crank and balancing).
I mocked one up that way with spare parts but I never built it...you'll be limited on cam lift due to no eyebrows inthe slug but if you want a low buck torque motor I'll bet a MP 528 solid would clear.
But I could see a very low buck "junkyard" torque motor turning high 11's or lower pretty easy.
Last edited by Streetwize; 01/30/09 11:23 PM.
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: Streetwize]
#208594
01/31/09 12:01 AM
01/31/09 12:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Actually the "on the Cheap" was to reuse your 400 pistons (Longer CH 440's won't work) and bore your 440 block to 4.342" (.022 over) and then (IIRC) use the 4.15 crank and the 440 LY rod and you get ~491 cubes.
You might need to check my math but I think that's right...at least it's feasible.
It'll be heavy and I think the slug still winds up down in the hole but the bottom end will lighter than a stock 440 and it'll be cheap (the cost of the crank and balancing).
I mocked one up that way with spare parts but I never built it...you'll be limited on cam lift due to no eyebrows inthe slug but if you want a low buck torque motor I'll bet a MP 528 solid would clear.
But I could see a very low buck "junkyard" torque motor turning high 11's or lower pretty easy.
Again, even if it was doable, why would you not run the KB forged piston for the 4.15" stroke based 440's? Summit lists those pistons for $441.00. At least with those you can build a zero-deck quench engine or a domed piston build. Last time I checked, a new set of cast 400 or 440 pistons listed for $350. For the extra 90 dollars I think it's worth it to just get the proper pistons. Really, when doing a stroker build like that, the crank is the biggest expense.
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#208596
01/31/09 05:23 AM
01/31/09 05:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
I've been on this myself. definitely want cast pistons & I had checked out some 403 olds pistons. 4.351" bore/1.585 CH. they're on eGay for cheap. I'd prefer a B block & I'd have to fab an external oiling system. I haven't found the right combo yet
A couple of Q's here on the pistons .....
The 403 Olds ? ... did you use them bone-stock? .. no mods to the piston deck or pins ?
The KB's that were mentioned ... these are forged ? ...
Now on the top ring location vs top of piston ? .... what is the minimum spec? (no spray or boost)
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Re: Old school 500 cubic inch on the cheap?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#208598
01/31/09 11:05 AM
01/31/09 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
The 403 Olds ? ... did you use them bone-stock? .. no mods to the piston deck or pins ?
The KB's that were mentioned ... these are forged ? ...
Now on the top ring location vs top of piston ? .... what is the minimum spec? (no spray or boost)
Nothing yet it's just on paper(& in my head  ). I am a quench fanatic & I cant get it with all the combo's I dreamed up so using the olds piston my be out & they are a dished piston so I'd have to machine the outer perimeter down. the pins are .9804" another problem, then buy the cutter & notch for valve clearance but maybe not needed as I had plannd on a stock cam. Sometimes I thrive on misery & as mentioned this might be one of these occaisions  but I cant see $1899 for a 440 source kit when I just want to throw together a BB for a daily driver 65 dart(hence the cast pistons) plus their kits MAY or may not need more work. I didn't catch the KB ones you mentioned but they are probably hypers & it'd be on their site to easily access. standard ring gap would be ~.004" per inch of bore dia(top ring) unless it's a KB hyper then maybe .0065" per inch but check their chart and .003" per inch of bore dia on the 2nd ring.
that would be correct , it's going to cost MORE in time and money to make that combo work , if it's even possible , you'd be better off with a cast 400 piston .
check ebarf for hawksracing , he sells stroker cranks for 495ish , use stock rods and 400 pistons . but yes KB has a shelf piston that will be eaiser to work with I'm pretty sure in both forged , but definitely hyper .
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