Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2073991
05/15/16 06:23 PM
05/15/16 06:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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What pump gas? Non ethanol? 91 or 93? 11.1 with aluminum heads is about the max in the REAL world IMO.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: 72Swinger]
#2073998
05/15/16 06:34 PM
05/15/16 06:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395 Pa
Hot 340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
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What pump gas? Non ethanol? 91 or 93? 11.1 with aluminum heads is about the max in the REAL world IMO. whats your combination? Are you seeing detonation at 11?
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074034
05/15/16 07:33 PM
05/15/16 07:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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No sir but mine is one of those 16 spark plug, flat top piston NOT A REAL Hemi.....Hemi's. It runs like a missle with 23* of advance. I shouldnt even be wasting your time by commenting lol! Are you building a new combo or wanting to make an existing combo work on pump gas? Is E85 an option?
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: 72Swinger]
#2074042
05/15/16 07:51 PM
05/15/16 07:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395 Pa
Hot 340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
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No sir but mine is one of those 16 spark plug, flat top piston NOT A REAL Hemi.....Hemi's. It runs like a missle with 23* of advance. I shouldnt even be wasting your time by commenting lol! Are you building a new combo or wanting to make an existing combo work on pump gas? Is E85 an option? New combination/new parts with old design gen 2 stuff. E85 is out for me, no place close by that sells it. 😟
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074049
05/15/16 07:57 PM
05/15/16 07:57 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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What pump gas? Non ethanol? 91 or 93? 11.1 with aluminum heads is about the max in the REAL world IMO. whats your combination? Are you seeing detonation at 11? I ran 11.6:1 in my 484 with no issues for years. I have a 605 hemi now, and I am right around 11.0-11.1:1 with no issues. The Hemi's are very resistant to having issues with detonation. I would be very comfortable running 12:1 on 93 and watching my timing and tune up. What we use around here is E10, so until they get rid of it, that's what I am running mine on. I would not run any lower than 11:1 on pump gas with a hemi. If your building it, build it for 12:1 with .027 head gaskets, and switch to thicker ones if you have to.
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Dragula]
#2074107
05/15/16 09:14 PM
05/15/16 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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Just finished and dyno'd my 528 with a true 10.5:1 and it almost made 840 hp and 671 TQ.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#2074122
05/15/16 09:31 PM
05/15/16 09:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395 Pa
Hot 340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
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Just finished and dyno'd my 528 with a true 10.5:1 and it almost made 840 hp and 671 TQ. I'm guessing on pump gas. What timing and cylinder pressure?
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074140
05/15/16 09:48 PM
05/15/16 09:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158
PA.
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Sorry didn't catch the Hemroid part.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Pump Gas Gen 2 Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074319
05/16/16 02:10 AM
05/16/16 02:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,118 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,118
Bend,OR USA
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I've built and dyno tested several different stock Mopar iron headed pump gas 426 type motors, 434 C.I., 3.91 stroke and 4.150 stroke motors for the same customer. All of them where right at 10.5 to 10.8 to 1 compression ratio and ran fine with CA pump swill back in the early 2000s I built the same customer a D5 alumimun headed 526 C.I. motor with a stock OEM Mopar cross ram with stock OEM Holley SS carbs., it struggle to make 50 HP more on the DTS engine dyno than the 4.150 stroke motor did with the new heavy Mopar iron replacement heads and a stock 1966 inline intake manifolds and stock 1966 AFB Carbs did That motor had a little over 12.5 to 1 compression, I probally should have treid it also on CA 91 octane pump swill
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 05/16/16 02:11 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Pump Gas Gen 2 Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074398
05/16/16 10:29 AM
05/16/16 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Pump Gas Gen 2 Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074407
05/16/16 11:05 AM
05/16/16 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,013 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,013
Benton, IL.
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I bought my 540 reciprocating assembly and cam from Ray Barton. He spec'd the CR @ 10.5 for this aluminum headed street/strip motor. I asked him about more comp since I have ran 11:1 in my aluminum headed 499 wedge for years with no problems. He said there wasn't enough additional power for a primarily street driven engine to warrant the extra hassles.
Master, again and still
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: cudadoug]
#2074529
05/16/16 02:31 PM
05/16/16 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 95 NW INDIANA
ta3834bbl
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 95
NW INDIANA
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Yes, I am very interested in your combo as well. I love to learn new stuff that works. Just finished and dyno'd my 528 with a true 10.5:1 and it almost made 840 hp and 671 TQ. Care to share the combo?
67 Dart GT Convertible 273 68 Barracuda 383 68 Roadrunner 383 4spd 1 '01 Ram 2500 4x4 diesel 2 '02 Rams 1500 4x4's 4.7s 3 '03 Rams 2 1500's 4x4 and 1 2500 hemi 4x4 Oh, and a 03 Grand Cherokee and an '00 durango
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074582
05/16/16 04:15 PM
05/16/16 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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our pump swill here is 85 octane, so I kept my 572 at 9.5 to one, that way I know that I can run any gas anywhere. Tim
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Dragula]
#2074803
05/16/16 11:04 PM
05/16/16 11:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395 Pa
Hot 340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
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What pump gas? Non ethanol? 91 or 93? 11.1 with aluminum heads is about the max in the REAL world IMO. whats your combination? Are you seeing detonation at 11? I ran 11.6:1 in my 484 with no issues for years. I have a 605 hemi now, and I am right around 11.0-11.1:1 with no issues. The Hemi's are very resistant to having issues with detonation. I would be very comfortable running 12:1 on 93 and watching my timing and tune up. What we use around here is E10, so until they get rid of it, that's what I am running mine on. I would not run any lower than 11:1 on pump gas with a hemi. If your building it, build it for 12:1 with .027 head gaskets, and switch to thicker ones if you have to. any trouble with 12:1 on a hot day? That would be my concern.
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Re: Pump Gas Gen 2 Hemis
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2074811
05/16/16 11:11 PM
05/16/16 11:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395 Pa
Hot 340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
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I bought my 540 reciprocating assembly and cam from Ray Barton. He spec'd the CR @ 10.5 for this aluminum headed street/strip motor. I asked him about more comp since I have ran 11:1 in my aluminum headed 499 wedge for years with no problems. He said there wasn't enough additional power for a primarily street driven engine to warrant the extra hassles. Dave, what would be the extra hassle he is reffering to? If you have to get pistons anyway, would cost much more to bump it some i wouldnt think
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2074829
05/16/16 11:35 PM
05/16/16 11:35 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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What pump gas? Non ethanol? 91 or 93? 11.1 with aluminum heads is about the max in the REAL world IMO. whats your combination? Are you seeing detonation at 11? I ran 11.6:1 in my 484 with no issues for years. I have a 605 hemi now, and I am right around 11.0-11.1:1 with no issues. The Hemi's are very resistant to having issues with detonation. I would be very comfortable running 12:1 on 93 and watching my timing and tune up. What we use around here is E10, so until they get rid of it, that's what I am running mine on. I would not run any lower than 11:1 on pump gas with a hemi. If your building it, build it for 12:1 with .027 head gaskets, and switch to thicker ones if you have to. any trouble with 12:1 on a hot day? That would be my concern. Never had an issue at 11.6 and I drove it a bunch in 90 temps.....You have to remember anything with aluminum heads that heats up loses compression as it gets to temp...The Hemi has a huge combustion chamber....And drops compression a little at temp. Its not really 12:1 at 185 degress anymore.
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Re: Pump Gas Gen 2 Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2075012
05/17/16 11:17 AM
05/17/16 11:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,013 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,013
Benton, IL.
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I bought my 540 reciprocating assembly and cam from Ray Barton. He spec'd the CR @ 10.5 for this aluminum headed street/strip motor. I asked him about more comp since I have ran 11:1 in my aluminum headed 499 wedge for years with no problems. He said there wasn't enough additional power for a primarily street driven engine to warrant the extra hassles. Dave, what would be the extra hassle he is reffering to? If you have to get pistons anyway, would cost much more to bump it some i wouldnt think I think he was referring to issues with gasoline quality and detonation.
Master, again and still
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: ta3834bbl]
#2075075
05/17/16 12:57 PM
05/17/16 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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Yes, I am very interested in your combo as well. I love to learn new stuff that works. Just finished and dyno'd my 528 with a true 10.5:1 and it almost made 840 hp and 671 TQ. Care to share the combo? Mine is nothing special. Mopar Mega block, 4.500 bore x 4.150 stroke, Mopar Performance heads, with Barton valvetrain, .800 solid roller cam with 4/7 swap. Indy intake.
Last edited by 6PKRTSE; 05/17/16 01:04 PM.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#2078183
05/22/16 12:09 PM
05/22/16 12:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,629 pa
572charger
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,629
pa
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ive been at 12.2 to one with my 606 cu hemi runs on 93 octane no problems , but the big motors with good heads don't like much timming either that helps out
606 hemi pump gas best 9.60 at 142mph on motor 05 hemi daytona 1500 go-mango 4wd quadcab 2007 hotrod mag pump gas drags runner up, roadkill nights dodge big tire winner 2018 2019 back to back
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: 572charger]
#2078188
05/22/16 12:16 PM
05/22/16 12:16 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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ive been at 12.2 to one with my 606 cu hemi runs on 93 octane no problems , but the big motors with good heads don't like much timming either that helps out Yup 29-30 degrees is what have seen.
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Dragula]
#2078204
05/22/16 12:38 PM
05/22/16 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,013 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,013
Benton, IL.
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ive been at 12.2 to one with my 606 cu hemi runs on 93 octane no problems , but the big motors with good heads don't like much timming either that helps out Yup 29-30 degrees is what have seen. My 10.5 540 liked 30* on the dyno this week.
Master, again and still
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2078852
05/23/16 02:55 PM
05/23/16 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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Mine liked 33 Degrees best. Lost some power at 32 or less & also lost some at 34+.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Pump Gas Hemis
[Re: Hot 340]
#2078861
05/23/16 03:05 PM
05/23/16 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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My 572 likes 34°. Atleast it did...I have not changed my base timing in 10 years, lol.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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