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big block with factory heads how fast can i go? #205527
01/26/09 10:31 PM
01/26/09 10:31 PM
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Ky
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moparmafia Offline OP
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i have been wanting to put a motor in my 70 gtx and i want to see how fast i can POSSIBLY go with a 440 and factory ported heads. i am talking maxxed out race only but i dont want the thing to blow up the first night lol. can i hear your fastest factory head combos? is it possible to run 5.99 in the 1/8 at 3200 lbs? thanks in advance.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205528
01/26/09 10:48 PM
01/26/09 10:48 PM
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Go to a NHRA race and watch the class guys run. They're pretty darn fast with cast iron heads.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: AndyF] #205529
01/26/09 10:54 PM
01/26/09 10:54 PM
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Chicago, IL
blownEFI Offline
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Was looking for Fast68Plymouth in the fastest cars thread... where did that go? Used to be a sticky


"These go to eleven", Nigel Tufnel
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205530
01/26/09 11:15 PM
01/26/09 11:15 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
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That is a very open ended question that will be hard to respond to without more information/constraints.
Are you talking Normaly Aspirated pump gas with no power adders, or race gas or other fuel, and are you using some sort of power adder?
You sat this is for a '70 GTX, but is it a street car or race car? How much does it weigh? what suspension, tires, gears, transmission, converter, etc are you using?

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205531
01/26/09 11:34 PM
01/26/09 11:34 PM
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Mission BC
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To answer your question directly, IMO it is possible to run 5.99 in the 1/8th with factory iron heads and 3200lbs. My old 440 combo was 452 heads, 590 MP cam, 10.5:1 (pump gas) and 3300lbs in a Dart. My best was 10.24@ 128 (from memory I think my 660 was 6.30's)and it was far from maxed out. With the right cam it could be done.

Last edited by 10sec440; 01/26/09 11:37 PM.
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: 451Mopar] #205532
01/26/09 11:34 PM
01/26/09 11:34 PM
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Quote:

That is a very open ended question that will be hard to respond to without more information/constraints.
Are you talking Normaly Aspirated pump gas with no power adders, or race gas or other fuel, and are you using some sort of power adder?
You sat this is for a '70 GTX, but is it a street car or race car? How much does it weigh? what suspension, tires, gears, transmission, converter, etc are you using?




it is going to be strip only on race gas. not trying to run a class or go by any rules whatsoever. just wanted to run all motor. not sure of the weight but i was going to put it on a diet. right now it has superstock springs with 29x10 mickeys.it has 4.88 in the 8 3/4 now but i have a dana for it.i have always been told a tunnel ram will slow a mopar down but lately i have read on here thats not true.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205533
01/26/09 11:45 PM
01/26/09 11:45 PM
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"i have always been told a tunnel ram will slow a mopar down but lately i have read on here thats not true. "

It all depends on the combo, a tunnel ram will (probably) slow a mild 440 down compared to a single 4, but will it slow down a Pro stock motor? Probably not.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205534
01/26/09 11:50 PM
01/26/09 11:50 PM
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Las Vegas
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First off let me state this for those who are not clear on this point a 5.99 in the 1/8th will be low 9.40's in the 1/4.

While I am quite sure it can be done my first question would be WHY? You are gonna need something north of 700hp and getting that from a set of factory iron heads will require a lot of money being thrown at them. The amount of money you will have to spend to achieve this woudl be better spent on better parts. I have gone 9.60's at 3050 with a set of iron heads, but I had enough can in it to go Comp racing Only so much you can get from a factory type head, so you are gonna have to make the motor think you got more by using a TON of cam. Now throw in a power adder and at least you can keep the dollar amount spent at a sane level for the return.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: 10sec440] #205535
01/26/09 11:52 PM
01/26/09 11:52 PM
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Rock Springs
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What ever happened to Bumps440 member here? IIRC that was his name. He went mid 9's in a 68-69B body with Iron heads. I haven't seen him post in at least 3-4 years. He told me it was fairly light, but wasnt no tube chassis deal. I cant even recall how many cubes he had, but did have port stock iron heads..


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205536
01/27/09 09:01 AM
01/27/09 09:01 AM
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Ky
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moparmafia Offline OP
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Quote:

First off let me state this for those who are not clear on this point a 5.99 in the 1/8th will be low 9.40's in the 1/4.

While I am quite sure it can be done my first question would be WHY? You are gonna need something north of 700hp and getting that from a set of factory iron heads will require a lot of money being thrown at them. The amount of money you will have to spend to achieve this woudl be better spent on better parts. I have gone 9.60's at 3050 with a set of iron heads, but I had enough can in it to go Comp racing Only so much you can get from a factory type head, so you are gonna have to make the motor think you got more by using a TON of cam. Now throw in a power adder and at least you can keep the dollar amount spent at a sane level for the return.




its just one of those things i have always wanted to try. i really dont see it being the most expensive build i have done. i already have 2 sets of 906 heads fully ported. i have built 2 500 inch indy motors in the past and i cant see it costing near that but i could be wrong. most of my friends all run either ford or chevy and they have always laughed and said mopar has the ugliest and slowest cars. i guess its crazy to try and max out a factory combo but its just a personal thing now.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205537
01/27/09 09:21 AM
01/27/09 09:21 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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sgcuda on here went 9.97 at 135 in a 2900# '70 cuda w/ a 440 that had mildly ported 915s on it. Has an A-833 hemi 4 speed, back half with ladder bars, 32x14 tires, etc.

Bumps440 went 9.80s w/ a ported stock iron head 440 in a '68 road runner, not sure of the weight.

Like Al said, gonna need a LOT of camshaft. CHIP


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205538
01/27/09 09:54 AM
01/27/09 09:54 AM
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south central,Pa
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Quote:

most of my friends all run either ford or chevy and they have always laughed and said mopar has the ugliest and slowest cars. i guess its crazy to try and max out a factory combo but its just a personal thing now.





Sounds to me like you are just trying to upset your buddies.
They wouldn't know what your combo is. Save yourself alot of money and put a set of aluminum heads on it and paint them. They won't have a clue.
From all the chevy guys running around here, it wouldn't take a 5.99 to beat any of them if they are NA. My opinion is that the bb chevys don't run without a power adder.
I have been 10.50's many moons ago with a 451", 906 headed, flat top pistons, small roller, on street tires, super stocks, at 3405 lbs.
And don't worry, you will always have them spending money to TRY and stay ahead.
That's what makes it fun.
And as far as the ugliest cars go. Ask them what their 1 of 3,658,548,461,257 camaros made is worth compared to your ugly old Mopar.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205539
01/27/09 10:32 AM
01/27/09 10:32 AM
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Left Coast
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Throwing the kind of money at what it will take to run that well with factory heads is not what I would do. Especially for impression sake. Don't forget the rest of the car. You really need a good rear suspension to do what you are asking about-along with a good drive train. A ported set of Indy SR's will make a hundred or more HP more than ported 906's.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: BobR] #205540
01/27/09 11:16 AM
01/27/09 11:16 AM
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Las Vegas
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Well feel free to throw your money away if you like. Just not a very easy pass no matter how many Benjamins you throw at it. Fully ported 906's are gonna need the kind of camshaft that kills springs in short order. 700hp with 906's is not territory many have ever entered.

Do you really have a glut of STOCK Headed non power adder chevies running those kind of numbers at that weight with stock suspensions?


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205541
01/27/09 11:38 AM
01/27/09 11:38 AM
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Creston, Iowa
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Great post! I think TJMARCUS on here has ran close to this, maybe with lighter car. My opinion is it is possible, but won't be easy. But wow can you imagine the feeling of accomplishment when you make it happen. Good luck!


Curator at Adams County Speed Shop
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205542
01/27/09 12:15 PM
01/27/09 12:15 PM
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Quote:

Well feel free to throw your money away if you like. Just not a very easy pass no matter how many Benjamins you throw at it. Fully ported 906's are gonna need the kind of camshaft that kills springs in short order. 700hp with 906's is not territory many have ever entered.

Do you really have a glut of STOCK Headed non power adder chevies running those kind of numbers at that weight with stock suspensions?




lol heck no we dont have hardly any chevys around here anymore that run on motor only. i have actually outrun several of them in the past when i had my indy motor. i outweighed them and they had blowers or nitrous. i really dont see the cost difference because the short block would cost the same and after i get all i can out of the stock heads i could upgrade to the sr heads. maybe build a 400 stroker with the ported heads i have now and just see how fast it can go? i think it would probably shock most people. a good mopar friend of mine told me most people underestimate the potential of the 906 head. i know of a local racer that went from a fully ported set of 452 heads and went to pretty much ootb -1 heads and picked up a tenth after a month of tuning. he was upset and called indy and told them and they didnt believe it.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205543
01/27/09 12:39 PM
01/27/09 12:39 PM
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Well let me ask you this. If it was easy and inexpensive to make 700hp with ported factory iron heads why is it you dont see many doing it. Plenty of ported iron heads out there still, well maybe not a ton as they are very prone to cracking, but plenty of cores. Are the rest of us just foolish to spend our money of aftermarket heads if the cost is less building a set of iron heads to make 700hp?

As for swapping heads from iron ported pieces to OOTB -1's that woudl not be totally a surprise to me, especially if they were right from Indy. Their valve job leaves a lot to be desired. I would also ad that the combination of parts required to make a good working unported -1 head to a fully ported iron head would be a good deal different, at least in my book.

In the end it is your money. Obviously ported iron heads can make decent power without breaking the bank, but at the 700hp level is the cost worth it? I have been in the .60's at 3050 on ladder bars with iron heads with a basic combo. But that is a long way from .40's at 3200lbs on leafs. The head flow is just not there to support it IMO. You can "fool" the engine into thinking there is more there with a VERY aggressive cam choice but with that comes a price tag as well.

We were running 9.30's with OOTB -1's with a 511" wedge for the last two seasons. Very mild, very easy on parts combination with no fancy parts. Why put yourself through the pain of trying to do it with iron heads? Been my question from the beginning.

Obviously you believe different, that is the joy of this sport lots of ways to skin a cat. Different strokes for different folks, so go show me I am wrong, I will be the first to congratulate you on the accomplishment.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205544
01/27/09 01:16 PM
01/27/09 01:16 PM
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Oklahoma
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Don't think you'll get bit done.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205545
01/27/09 01:21 PM
01/27/09 01:21 PM
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I went a best of 10.48 @129mph in my daily driven stroked 400(470) w/ported 906`s, a solid isky cam 590-605 and street dot`s through the muffs at 3200 lbs in my 72 dart..........whooped MANY chevy RACE CARS. I agree it`s gonna take a lot of $$$ to do it but if you have the bucks then go for it.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205546
01/27/09 02:51 PM
01/27/09 02:51 PM
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Ky
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Quote:

Well let me ask you this. If it was easy and inexpensive to make 700hp with ported factory iron heads why is it you dont see many doing it. Plenty of ported iron heads out there still, well maybe not a ton as they are very prone to cracking, but plenty of cores. Are the rest of us just foolish to spend our money of aftermarket heads if the cost is less building a set of iron heads to make 700hp?

As for swapping heads from iron ported pieces to OOTB -1's that woudl not be totally a surprise to me, especially if they were right from Indy. Their valve job leaves a lot to be desired. I would also ad that the combination of parts required to make a good working unported -1 head to a fully ported iron head would be a good deal different, at least in my book.

In the end it is your money. Obviously ported iron heads can make decent power without breaking the bank, but at the 700hp level is the cost worth it? I have been in the .60's at 3050 on ladder bars with iron heads with a basic combo. But that is a long way from .40's at 3200lbs on leafs. The head flow is just not there to support it IMO. You can "fool" the engine into thinking there is more there with a VERY aggressive cam choice but with that comes a price tag as well.

We were running 9.30's with OOTB -1's with a 511" wedge for the last two seasons. Very mild, very easy on parts combination with no fancy parts. Why put yourself through the pain of trying to do it with iron heads? Been my question from the beginning.

Obviously you believe different, that is the joy of this sport lots of ways to skin a cat. Different strokes for different folks, so go show me I am wrong, I will be the first to congratulate you on the accomplishment.




really all i am asking for is how fast has anyone gone with factory heads. i really wanted everyones input. i do not think anyone is foolish for following a dream of any kind. heck if i was worried about money i wouldnt even build a mopar. how many of us have built a mopar racecar for the profit? i have spent thousands on racecars before and i never saw 1 penny in return. was that stupid? i dont think so i did it because i loved it. i know it will be harder to do but that for ME is part of the thrill. and no the -1 heads were checked and redone after they were bought from indy they just wasnt ported. also i really dont see anything different in this engine other than the heads so how could the cost be so high compared to an indy motor?

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