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big block with factory heads how fast can i go? #205527
01/26/09 10:31 PM
01/26/09 10:31 PM
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i have been wanting to put a motor in my 70 gtx and i want to see how fast i can POSSIBLY go with a 440 and factory ported heads. i am talking maxxed out race only but i dont want the thing to blow up the first night lol. can i hear your fastest factory head combos? is it possible to run 5.99 in the 1/8 at 3200 lbs? thanks in advance.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205528
01/26/09 10:48 PM
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Go to a NHRA race and watch the class guys run. They're pretty darn fast with cast iron heads.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: AndyF] #205529
01/26/09 10:54 PM
01/26/09 10:54 PM
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Chicago, IL
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Was looking for Fast68Plymouth in the fastest cars thread... where did that go? Used to be a sticky


"These go to eleven", Nigel Tufnel
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205530
01/26/09 11:15 PM
01/26/09 11:15 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
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That is a very open ended question that will be hard to respond to without more information/constraints.
Are you talking Normaly Aspirated pump gas with no power adders, or race gas or other fuel, and are you using some sort of power adder?
You sat this is for a '70 GTX, but is it a street car or race car? How much does it weigh? what suspension, tires, gears, transmission, converter, etc are you using?

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205531
01/26/09 11:34 PM
01/26/09 11:34 PM
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To answer your question directly, IMO it is possible to run 5.99 in the 1/8th with factory iron heads and 3200lbs. My old 440 combo was 452 heads, 590 MP cam, 10.5:1 (pump gas) and 3300lbs in a Dart. My best was 10.24@ 128 (from memory I think my 660 was 6.30's)and it was far from maxed out. With the right cam it could be done.

Last edited by 10sec440; 01/26/09 11:37 PM.
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: 451Mopar] #205532
01/26/09 11:34 PM
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Quote:

That is a very open ended question that will be hard to respond to without more information/constraints.
Are you talking Normaly Aspirated pump gas with no power adders, or race gas or other fuel, and are you using some sort of power adder?
You sat this is for a '70 GTX, but is it a street car or race car? How much does it weigh? what suspension, tires, gears, transmission, converter, etc are you using?




it is going to be strip only on race gas. not trying to run a class or go by any rules whatsoever. just wanted to run all motor. not sure of the weight but i was going to put it on a diet. right now it has superstock springs with 29x10 mickeys.it has 4.88 in the 8 3/4 now but i have a dana for it.i have always been told a tunnel ram will slow a mopar down but lately i have read on here thats not true.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205533
01/26/09 11:45 PM
01/26/09 11:45 PM
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"i have always been told a tunnel ram will slow a mopar down but lately i have read on here thats not true. "

It all depends on the combo, a tunnel ram will (probably) slow a mild 440 down compared to a single 4, but will it slow down a Pro stock motor? Probably not.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205534
01/26/09 11:50 PM
01/26/09 11:50 PM
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Las Vegas
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First off let me state this for those who are not clear on this point a 5.99 in the 1/8th will be low 9.40's in the 1/4.

While I am quite sure it can be done my first question would be WHY? You are gonna need something north of 700hp and getting that from a set of factory iron heads will require a lot of money being thrown at them. The amount of money you will have to spend to achieve this woudl be better spent on better parts. I have gone 9.60's at 3050 with a set of iron heads, but I had enough can in it to go Comp racing Only so much you can get from a factory type head, so you are gonna have to make the motor think you got more by using a TON of cam. Now throw in a power adder and at least you can keep the dollar amount spent at a sane level for the return.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: 10sec440] #205535
01/26/09 11:52 PM
01/26/09 11:52 PM
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Rock Springs
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What ever happened to Bumps440 member here? IIRC that was his name. He went mid 9's in a 68-69B body with Iron heads. I haven't seen him post in at least 3-4 years. He told me it was fairly light, but wasnt no tube chassis deal. I cant even recall how many cubes he had, but did have port stock iron heads..


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205536
01/27/09 09:01 AM
01/27/09 09:01 AM
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Quote:

First off let me state this for those who are not clear on this point a 5.99 in the 1/8th will be low 9.40's in the 1/4.

While I am quite sure it can be done my first question would be WHY? You are gonna need something north of 700hp and getting that from a set of factory iron heads will require a lot of money being thrown at them. The amount of money you will have to spend to achieve this woudl be better spent on better parts. I have gone 9.60's at 3050 with a set of iron heads, but I had enough can in it to go Comp racing Only so much you can get from a factory type head, so you are gonna have to make the motor think you got more by using a TON of cam. Now throw in a power adder and at least you can keep the dollar amount spent at a sane level for the return.




its just one of those things i have always wanted to try. i really dont see it being the most expensive build i have done. i already have 2 sets of 906 heads fully ported. i have built 2 500 inch indy motors in the past and i cant see it costing near that but i could be wrong. most of my friends all run either ford or chevy and they have always laughed and said mopar has the ugliest and slowest cars. i guess its crazy to try and max out a factory combo but its just a personal thing now.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205537
01/27/09 09:21 AM
01/27/09 09:21 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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sgcuda on here went 9.97 at 135 in a 2900# '70 cuda w/ a 440 that had mildly ported 915s on it. Has an A-833 hemi 4 speed, back half with ladder bars, 32x14 tires, etc.

Bumps440 went 9.80s w/ a ported stock iron head 440 in a '68 road runner, not sure of the weight.

Like Al said, gonna need a LOT of camshaft. CHIP


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205538
01/27/09 09:54 AM
01/27/09 09:54 AM
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south central,Pa
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Quote:

most of my friends all run either ford or chevy and they have always laughed and said mopar has the ugliest and slowest cars. i guess its crazy to try and max out a factory combo but its just a personal thing now.





Sounds to me like you are just trying to upset your buddies.
They wouldn't know what your combo is. Save yourself alot of money and put a set of aluminum heads on it and paint them. They won't have a clue.
From all the chevy guys running around here, it wouldn't take a 5.99 to beat any of them if they are NA. My opinion is that the bb chevys don't run without a power adder.
I have been 10.50's many moons ago with a 451", 906 headed, flat top pistons, small roller, on street tires, super stocks, at 3405 lbs.
And don't worry, you will always have them spending money to TRY and stay ahead.
That's what makes it fun.
And as far as the ugliest cars go. Ask them what their 1 of 3,658,548,461,257 camaros made is worth compared to your ugly old Mopar.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205539
01/27/09 10:32 AM
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Throwing the kind of money at what it will take to run that well with factory heads is not what I would do. Especially for impression sake. Don't forget the rest of the car. You really need a good rear suspension to do what you are asking about-along with a good drive train. A ported set of Indy SR's will make a hundred or more HP more than ported 906's.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: BobR] #205540
01/27/09 11:16 AM
01/27/09 11:16 AM
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Well feel free to throw your money away if you like. Just not a very easy pass no matter how many Benjamins you throw at it. Fully ported 906's are gonna need the kind of camshaft that kills springs in short order. 700hp with 906's is not territory many have ever entered.

Do you really have a glut of STOCK Headed non power adder chevies running those kind of numbers at that weight with stock suspensions?


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205541
01/27/09 11:38 AM
01/27/09 11:38 AM
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Great post! I think TJMARCUS on here has ran close to this, maybe with lighter car. My opinion is it is possible, but won't be easy. But wow can you imagine the feeling of accomplishment when you make it happen. Good luck!


Curator at Adams County Speed Shop
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205542
01/27/09 12:15 PM
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Quote:

Well feel free to throw your money away if you like. Just not a very easy pass no matter how many Benjamins you throw at it. Fully ported 906's are gonna need the kind of camshaft that kills springs in short order. 700hp with 906's is not territory many have ever entered.

Do you really have a glut of STOCK Headed non power adder chevies running those kind of numbers at that weight with stock suspensions?




lol heck no we dont have hardly any chevys around here anymore that run on motor only. i have actually outrun several of them in the past when i had my indy motor. i outweighed them and they had blowers or nitrous. i really dont see the cost difference because the short block would cost the same and after i get all i can out of the stock heads i could upgrade to the sr heads. maybe build a 400 stroker with the ported heads i have now and just see how fast it can go? i think it would probably shock most people. a good mopar friend of mine told me most people underestimate the potential of the 906 head. i know of a local racer that went from a fully ported set of 452 heads and went to pretty much ootb -1 heads and picked up a tenth after a month of tuning. he was upset and called indy and told them and they didnt believe it.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205543
01/27/09 12:39 PM
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Well let me ask you this. If it was easy and inexpensive to make 700hp with ported factory iron heads why is it you dont see many doing it. Plenty of ported iron heads out there still, well maybe not a ton as they are very prone to cracking, but plenty of cores. Are the rest of us just foolish to spend our money of aftermarket heads if the cost is less building a set of iron heads to make 700hp?

As for swapping heads from iron ported pieces to OOTB -1's that woudl not be totally a surprise to me, especially if they were right from Indy. Their valve job leaves a lot to be desired. I would also ad that the combination of parts required to make a good working unported -1 head to a fully ported iron head would be a good deal different, at least in my book.

In the end it is your money. Obviously ported iron heads can make decent power without breaking the bank, but at the 700hp level is the cost worth it? I have been in the .60's at 3050 on ladder bars with iron heads with a basic combo. But that is a long way from .40's at 3200lbs on leafs. The head flow is just not there to support it IMO. You can "fool" the engine into thinking there is more there with a VERY aggressive cam choice but with that comes a price tag as well.

We were running 9.30's with OOTB -1's with a 511" wedge for the last two seasons. Very mild, very easy on parts combination with no fancy parts. Why put yourself through the pain of trying to do it with iron heads? Been my question from the beginning.

Obviously you believe different, that is the joy of this sport lots of ways to skin a cat. Different strokes for different folks, so go show me I am wrong, I will be the first to congratulate you on the accomplishment.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205544
01/27/09 01:16 PM
01/27/09 01:16 PM
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Oklahoma
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Don't think you'll get bit done.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205545
01/27/09 01:21 PM
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I went a best of 10.48 @129mph in my daily driven stroked 400(470) w/ported 906`s, a solid isky cam 590-605 and street dot`s through the muffs at 3200 lbs in my 72 dart..........whooped MANY chevy RACE CARS. I agree it`s gonna take a lot of $$$ to do it but if you have the bucks then go for it.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205546
01/27/09 02:51 PM
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Quote:

Well let me ask you this. If it was easy and inexpensive to make 700hp with ported factory iron heads why is it you dont see many doing it. Plenty of ported iron heads out there still, well maybe not a ton as they are very prone to cracking, but plenty of cores. Are the rest of us just foolish to spend our money of aftermarket heads if the cost is less building a set of iron heads to make 700hp?

As for swapping heads from iron ported pieces to OOTB -1's that woudl not be totally a surprise to me, especially if they were right from Indy. Their valve job leaves a lot to be desired. I would also ad that the combination of parts required to make a good working unported -1 head to a fully ported iron head would be a good deal different, at least in my book.

In the end it is your money. Obviously ported iron heads can make decent power without breaking the bank, but at the 700hp level is the cost worth it? I have been in the .60's at 3050 on ladder bars with iron heads with a basic combo. But that is a long way from .40's at 3200lbs on leafs. The head flow is just not there to support it IMO. You can "fool" the engine into thinking there is more there with a VERY aggressive cam choice but with that comes a price tag as well.

We were running 9.30's with OOTB -1's with a 511" wedge for the last two seasons. Very mild, very easy on parts combination with no fancy parts. Why put yourself through the pain of trying to do it with iron heads? Been my question from the beginning.

Obviously you believe different, that is the joy of this sport lots of ways to skin a cat. Different strokes for different folks, so go show me I am wrong, I will be the first to congratulate you on the accomplishment.




really all i am asking for is how fast has anyone gone with factory heads. i really wanted everyones input. i do not think anyone is foolish for following a dream of any kind. heck if i was worried about money i wouldnt even build a mopar. how many of us have built a mopar racecar for the profit? i have spent thousands on racecars before and i never saw 1 penny in return. was that stupid? i dont think so i did it because i loved it. i know it will be harder to do but that for ME is part of the thrill. and no the -1 heads were checked and redone after they were bought from indy they just wasnt ported. also i really dont see anything different in this engine other than the heads so how could the cost be so high compared to an indy motor?

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Thumperdart] #205547
01/27/09 03:42 PM
01/27/09 03:42 PM
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robin hood country
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What was your combo, cam, compression, etc.
Was it the purple Duster?.
Mike


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205548
01/27/09 04:27 PM
01/27/09 04:27 PM
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Romeo MI
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To be honest, your 5.99 in the 1/8 is a 9.40 pass
and figureing 3200 lbs thats gonna take 720 hp
and to get that 720 hp you need right about 320 cfm
head flow.... I dont think you can get that from a
stock head

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205549
01/27/09 04:31 PM
01/27/09 04:31 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

First off let me state this for those who are not clear on this point a 5.99 in the 1/8th will be low 9.40's in the 1/4.

While I am quite sure it can be done my first question would be WHY? You are gonna need something north of 700hp and getting that from a set of factory iron heads will require a lot of money being thrown at them. The amount of money you will have to spend to achieve this woudl be better spent on better parts. I have gone 9.60's at 3050 with a set of iron heads, but I had enough can in it to go Comp racing Only so much you can get from a factory type head, so you are gonna have to make the motor think you got more by using a TON of cam. Now throw in a power adder and at least you can keep the dollar amount spent at a sane level for the return.




its just one of those things i have always wanted to try. i really dont see it being the most expensive build i have done. i already have 2 sets of 906 heads fully ported. i have built 2 500 inch indy motors in the past and i cant see it costing near that but i could be wrong. most of my friends all run either ford or chevy and they have always laughed and said mopar has the ugliest and slowest cars. i guess its crazy to try and max out a factory combo but its just a personal thing now.




you say you have the heads , build it and let us know how it works out ...

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #205550
01/27/09 04:34 PM
01/27/09 04:34 PM
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I think it is possible to get 320 from factory iron heads but you have to do a lot of work. Probably cost $5000 by the time you're done to get a good set of heads that would flow those numbers. Dwayne might know, he might have worked on a project like that before.

I haven't seen any of the current 906 heads used for Super Stock racing but I'd imagine they flow numbers like that. I bet they cost a ton of money and don't last long either.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #205551
01/27/09 04:40 PM
01/27/09 04:40 PM
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moparmafia Offline OP
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Quote:

To be honest, your 5.99 in the 1/8 is a 9.40 pass
and figureing 3200 lbs thats gonna take 720 hp
and to get that 720 hp you need right about 320 cfm
head flow.... I dont think you can get that from a
stock head





you are probably right about the 320 head flow. i have never seen a factory head flow that much. we had a set here that flowed 305 but i dont think you could have gotten 1 more cfm out of it. but i had a 70 dart that weighed 3310 that had a 400 stroked to 500. it had mild 906 heads that flowed 256 and a comp .650. that car had spinning/ chassis problems like you wouldnt believe. i only made 4 passes and it went 6.59. it was nowhere near maxxed out and would have been 2-3 tenths quicker by hooking it. everyone said those heads were going to choke it to death til they seen it run. thats what got me to thinking maybe its possible to run the 5.99 with factory heads

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205552
01/27/09 04:47 PM
01/27/09 04:47 PM
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Las Vegas NV
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Most of the chevy and ford guys I know are running stroker motors with big aluminum heads. You would be handicapping yourself bigtime but you could do it if you are just talking an 1/8 mile.
Port the crap out of some late 452's and throw some big tires and a ton of cam and gear in the car and go run your 5.99.

Last edited by moparmanjames; 01/27/09 04:48 PM.
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmanjames] #205553
01/27/09 05:50 PM
01/27/09 05:50 PM
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wouldn't max wedge heads be considered "factory" heads? i would think they would be a better starting point than a 906, 452 or 915 casting. to each his own but can't see the reasoning on this one. pound for pound a stock mopar wedge head just plain sux compared to what chevy and ford have had available...face it they just had better heads. if you only picked up a tenth after swapping from a set of 452's to a set of -1's i'd be looking for the plug wire(s) that fell off

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: jamesc] #205554
01/27/09 06:31 PM
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moparmafia Offline OP
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Quote:

wouldn't max wedge heads be considered "factory" heads? i would think they would be a better starting point than a 906, 452 or 915 casting. to each his own but can't see the reasoning on this one. pound for pound a stock mopar wedge head just plain sux compared to what chevy and ford have had available...face it they just had better heads. if you only picked up a tenth after swapping from a set of 452's to a set of -1's i'd be looking for the plug wire(s) that
fell off




then honestly i dont think you realize the potential of the mopar factory big block heads. i totally disagree that chevy and ford were better. this chevy way of thinking is my whole point in doing this. it would make me feel good to prove people like this wrong and show them pure mopar power.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205555
01/27/09 07:12 PM
01/27/09 07:12 PM

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You are dreaming if you think a factory 906 or 952 ported headed 440 in a big 70 GTX will run 5.90's maybe 6.70-6.80 with a good suspension..

4978101-coronet007.jpg (58 downloads)
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? #205556
01/27/09 07:41 PM
01/27/09 07:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 36
tennessee
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mike54 Offline
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tennessee
how much power to go 5.99?..well last time i saw bob reeds ss/ah stick car run at mooresville , he ran a 5.81..it was a full out run..just over 3,000 pounds, a scienced out suspension, and a big tire. im sure of the readers here can give us a power estimate of bob's hemi

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: moparmafia] #205557
01/27/09 10:12 PM
01/27/09 10:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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communist bloc of new jersey
i drive a 01 dodge dakota, 97 dodge ram cummins, 72 383 dodge dart, 225" s&w with a 451, 245" Mike Boz that i'm building a 557" b1 headed KB block plus 470" and 448" mills sitting under the bench so you need not fear i have a "chevy way of thinking". if you believe the stock chrysler castings are so great have at it...i'll stick with my aftermarket junk.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: mike54] #205558
01/27/09 10:26 PM
01/27/09 10:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 290
Norwalk Ohio
cudasteve68 Offline
enthusiast
cudasteve68  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 290
Norwalk Ohio
From what I have been thru in the past, the money spent on a maxed out Iron Head will get you a set of 440-EZ-1 Indy's. A really leaned on Iron Head is prone to cracking. You can cut an Indy in 1/2 and still be able to save it. Cracked Iron Heads are good for fishing and planting flowers in. I run a set of the EZ-1's in my old beat up barf-a-cuda. I run 500 inches with a .590 comp cam, 4150 base carb, 4.30 gear, and 9.0 X 30.0 slick that hooks at any track. (besides this year at the Norwalk CC Event @ 2:00 am in the rain) This thing does not see over 6700 rpm. Best 1/4 mile so far 10.13 @ 129.98. The car is 3180 lbs with me in it. The rear springs have about 900 passes on them. With a Cam, Carb, and Gears I could run the #'s you are looking for. We are bracket racing correct? It is NOT how fast you can go, It is HOW LONG YOU CAN GO FAST. Save the Iron Heads for the resto guys.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: cudasteve68] #205559
01/27/09 11:28 PM
01/27/09 11:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Most of the responses here say save the money and go aftermarket heads. I agree to a point. You can run what you have and ring the most out of them with a tunnelram and big roller, and if you do it right with a very efficient oilpan to reduce windage, and very well designed piston and ring package I think its possible at a sealevel track. It will be on the edge though!
I would set the shortblock up with a zero deck to allow the move to either Indy SR or 440-1 heads to pick up the pace at a later date and replace those crack prone 906s.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: gregsdart] #205560
01/28/09 12:13 AM
01/28/09 12:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,116
sc
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tjmarcus1 Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
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i had a 448 with 906's and a tr with 2-660's, flat tappet cam that went 6.16, but that was at about 2825#. i believe we had one of the best set of 906's anywhere. with all due respect, to run those numbers anywhere but at a killer track and with density alt. air below sea level in a 70gtx weighing 3200 {is that with or without driver?} IS VERY UNLIKELY. i believe you said you wanted an engine that would stay together........ i don't think it will happen,sorry. maybe 6.40 to 6.70

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: tjmarcus1] #205561
01/28/09 12:46 AM
01/28/09 12:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
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Las Vegas
Well you asked how fast you can go. I thought I stated earlier but here goes. My old iron headed deal ran well at a best of 9.69, but that was at ONLY 136 mph. I did manage a best of 6.15 but that was at 3050 lbs. The car worked very well, particularly in the first 330', it never mile per houred at all. In that sense it was more like a Super Stocker than the average bracket car. Heck it went low 1.30 60's always and managed a 1.28 best. My Barracuda is not much better in the 60' at 1.5+ seconds faster.

I understand the why of proving a point. Lord knows I have done similar stuff a few times. I built my iron headed deal to prove a point in a way, that you dont need aftermarket aluminum heads to run 9's in a typical back half bracket bomber.

I had a 480" BB with a stock steel 4" stroke crank, inexpensive aluminum rods and shelf Ross pistons(13-1). If I recall the heads were just shy of 270 cfm. The cam was large by huge. I dont have the cam card any longer as I sold the car but it was in excess of .850" lift and the duration was in the upper 280's at .050" It used a set of springs up a season. I had to lash the valves pretty much all the time but I like to work on stuff so it did not bother me. The first thing the new owner did was loose the cam and the car responded by slowing down a bunch, to a 10.teen car.

My point is I have been there done that. Thought I made that point earlier. Can you go 5.99 at 3200 pounds on leafs with no power adder and iron heads....I will say NO, but what do I know. IF you can it will be a very costly venture. Feel free to prove me wrong, as stated I will be the first in line to congratulate you.

BTW the guy who pointed out the SS/AH stuff is apple to oranges. Do you really think you can compare a set of AH prepped Hemi heads to an iron ported wedge head? Are you also saying a 3200lb stock suspension(leafs)car can compare to prepped Super Stocker? Hello!!!!

FWIW here is my turd that had the iron heads and ran ok...



"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205562
01/28/09 03:59 AM
01/28/09 03:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,376
NORTHERN CA
HUSTLESTUFF Offline
pro stock
HUSTLESTUFF  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,376
NORTHERN CA
8.14...180ish. 3000# prostock Dart. DLI built 500 inch w/ stage 4 heads. Hemi block. See the post about Dick's Dart, Lenco and all. I sold the motor back but had about 1150 hp. All of Dicks secrets in it. Built in 1979. Today at least $30k to build.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: HUSTLESTUFF] #205563
01/28/09 07:46 AM
01/28/09 07:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 299
Sparta, TN
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mark42202 Offline
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Sparta, TN
I run a stock bore, stock stroke 440 with 915 heads, .520 lift cam, launch at 2900 off the foot brake, shifting at 5700rpm with 4.30 gear and run 6.70's in my 64 Fury at 4000ft d/a on alky. It weighs 3420 with me in it and a full fuel cell. I think it can be done if you put the money in the right spots. I say go for it!

Last edited by mark42202; 01/28/09 07:47 AM.
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: mark42202] #205564
01/28/09 09:42 AM
01/28/09 09:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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S/ST 3040 Offline
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I'm not saying one way or the other but, doesn't
Don Little run a 383 in his 70 Challenger?

Currently 9.70 @ 136.20 in GT/FA (S/S)

Factory heads and carburetor

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: S/ST 3040] #205565
01/28/09 10:26 AM
01/28/09 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,495
Richmond , Virginia
BEEQUIK Offline
top fuel
BEEQUIK  Offline
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Richmond , Virginia
Quote:

I'm not saying one way or the other but, doesn't
Don Little run a 383 in his 70 Challenger?

Currently 9.70 @ 136.20 in GT/FA (S/S)

This may be true but to reiterate Al's point, How much is Don Little gonna sell you a set of those heads for? And it's not just those heads that makes that car run those numbers.Those guys do things to those cars we can't imagine,thats why they are so impressive.I have seen some stock eliminator pieces being made that would blow your mind for a hundredth or two gain.Those guys are nuts ,IMO.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: BEEQUIK] #205566
01/28/09 10:49 AM
01/28/09 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee Offline
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Texas
With enough money, work and dedication I think its possible. I guess the next question would be, are you the man for the job?


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: BEEQUIK] #205567
01/28/09 10:52 AM
01/28/09 10:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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S/ST 3040 Offline
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On the south side of Nowhere
It's a TALL order for sure but, those S/S heads have to meet
a runner volume spec and 2.08" intake valves. Engine is probably
less than 10.5:1 and limited to an OEM carburetor. That leaves
some room for upgrades.

CID, heads, compression and carburetor.

He said he wanted to go fast with factory heads, not that he was broke.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: Al_Alguire] #205568
01/31/09 10:32 PM
01/31/09 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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fast68plymouth  Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
Al, i thought the motor in that Duster had stage V heads on it.

as for Don Little.....i'm not sure if those 9.70's were "actual" ET's, or atltitude corrected ET's.

i dont see 320-ish type flow numbers happening from OE heads without some type of welding/epoxy/port relocation.
i saw pictures of those Landy heads Hustlestuff was referring do.
VERY extensively modified.
the intake ports on those heads were reconfigured in much the same way as the Moparts Enginemasters Stage VI heads were(or rather.....the Moparts heads were reconfigured along the lines of those Landy Stage IV's).


however, i do think you could get 700hp from ported OE heads on a high effort build.
OE heads making that kind of power would certainly be rather fragile.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: fast68plymouth] #205569
01/31/09 10:49 PM
01/31/09 10:49 PM
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Posts: 2,116
sc
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tjmarcus1 Offline
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tjmarcus1  Offline
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Quote:

Al, i thought the motor in that Duster had stage V heads on it.

as for Don Little.....i'm not sure if those 9.70's were "actual" ET's, or atltitude corrected ET's.

i dont see 320-ish type flow numbers happening from OE heads without some type of welding/epoxy/port relocation.
i saw pictures of those Landy heads Hustlestuff was referring do.
VERY extensively modified.
the intake ports on those heads were reconfigured in much the same way as the Moparts Enginemasters Stage VI heads were(or rather.....the Moparts heads were reconfigured along the lines of those Landy Stage IV's).


however, i do think you could get 700hp from ported OE heads on a high effort build.
OE heads making that kind of power would certainly be rather fragile.


couldn't have said it better myself. you would have to be VERY adept at repairing cast iron.

Re: big block with factory heads how fast can i go? [Re: fast68plymouth] #205570
01/31/09 11:35 PM
01/31/09 11:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 699
Manassas, VA USA
Scamp451 Offline
mopar
Scamp451  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 699
Manassas, VA USA
Do you think the Chevy guys are being honest and telling you what they have? Doubtful.

Maybe I am oversimplifying, but if it were me I would be talking to someone about something like a 500" with a set of cheapo CNC ported 440 source heads and a mechanical roller. Any brand X person will not know the difference from a factory head, especially painted, unless you are subject to tear down at the track? You could keep the roating assembly pretty light and the weight loss of the heads is taken off where it needs to be. Plus with the aluminum, you may be able to get away with some more compression depending on what fuel you want to burn. I honestly don't know the full potential of the stealth heads, but for the price of these things you would probably get you a lot farther than the iron since nothing really seems to come flawless from the factory anyway.

Based on the pictures I have seen, there appears to be enough material to carve something decent. Not endorsing the source never used their stuff, but for the price I would give it a shot having someone reputable do the work.

I had this conversation with my dad this morning when he talked about buying a set of iron heads from Aerohead. Off the top of my head I can't think of any reason to ever buy another set of steel heads except for maybe a pulling truck.

But if you are dead set on doing a steel headed 440 for bragging rights and piece of mind, then I wish you the best!

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