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Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Thumperdart] #2047402
04/05/16 09:35 PM
04/05/16 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
Bowler Wisconsin
Smoparmike Offline OP
enthusiast
Smoparmike  Offline OP
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Bowler Wisconsin
I knew the cross ram would cost me big power. I have the cross ram, linkage and bolts already so I will use it. I would like to try a single setup just to see the difference. What intake would you suggest? It is a 440 base 505 with ez heads by porter racing and a solid roller cam 264/270 dur @50 110 lobe sep and .631 lift. Thanks Mike

Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2047512
04/05/16 11:23 PM
04/05/16 11:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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I run a heavily ported Victor 383 w/an adapter that`s blended nicely into the manifold and a Thumperized HP-1050.............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2047966
04/06/16 02:23 PM
04/06/16 02:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
super stock
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Missouri
As mentioned Dan Dvorak is the man on a cross ram. I run the earlier Federal Mogul AFB carbs, they have a few minor differences. My 3200 lb NSS car ran a best of a 10.00 with the old cross ram, I could never get it faster, and Dvorak said that I was wasting my time trying. Two other guys in NSS are at the same ET and nothing seems to make the cars go any faster. Put a homade inline manifold with same carbs on mine and it ran 9.78, When setting up your fuel system the needles and seats are the main restriction, I machined little windows in the seats and drilled the air horn to make them dual inlet. Really improved the stability of the airfuel readings.

Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2047979
04/06/16 02:41 PM
04/06/16 02:41 PM
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Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
As long as your heads have the stock Max Wedge size or ports look at the Indy single four intakes, 440-2 for the RB with 4150 carbs and the 440-3 for the dominator carbs, 400-2 and 400-3 for the low decks. I don't know of anyone testing the new Edlbrock Super Victor 440 M.W. intakes yet, they may be a decent choice also confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: AndyF] #2048156
04/06/16 05:51 PM
04/06/16 05:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
central ohio
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nss guy Offline
pro stock
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central ohio
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By Smoparmike
I agree with you! I have more experence with holleys but none with dual carbs. I have a little time yet to decide for sure. If I was smart I would put a single Dommy on it.


A single plane intake with a Dominator will make 100 hp more than a MW cross ram on a race type engine. When you think about it that means that the cross ram intake is destroying 100 hp of potential power but keeping the air and fuel from getting into the cylinders at the right time. I know that people love the look of the cross ram but sheesh, 100 hp is nothing to sneeze at. Plus the single 4bbl setup costs less and weighs less.

How much ET are we talking about the 100hp loss with the factory crossram? I can run 10.20's thru the mufflers with these small
air cleaners on. Curious how quick I could go with a single plane and dominator.

DSCN0175-1.JPG
Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: nss guy] #2048213
04/06/16 07:04 PM
04/06/16 07:04 PM
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Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Probably pick up to 9.80 or 9.90 if you added 100 hp. I'm assuming that you currently weigh about 3600 lbs?

The problem is that then you are just another guy with an Indy intake and a Dominator. Having a cross ram looks cool even if it costs a bunch of hp.

Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2048336
04/06/16 09:40 PM
04/06/16 09:40 PM
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Shelby mi.
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JAKE68 Offline
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Shelby mi.
9:70's in 3300 lb. in. Nss car stock xram 750 edies.

Last edited by JAKE68; 04/06/16 09:41 PM.

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Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2048700
04/07/16 10:40 AM
04/07/16 10:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 428
wappinger falls new york
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Jimi_Vignogna Offline
mopar
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wappinger falls new york
Originally Posted By Smoparmike
I knew the cross ram would cost me big power. I have the cross ram, linkage and bolts already so I will use it. I would like to try a single setup just to see the difference. What intake would you suggest? It is a 440 base 505 with ez heads by porter racing and a solid roller cam 264/270 dur @50 110 lobe sep and .631 lift. Thanks Mike


duration is wrong for a cross ram engine that will work with a short runner single plain intake. cross ram should be the other way around. 270 intake 266 exhaust

Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: AndyF] #2048702
04/07/16 10:43 AM
04/07/16 10:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 428
wappinger falls new york
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Jimi_Vignogna Offline
mopar
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wappinger falls new york
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By Smoparmike
I agree with you! I have more experence with holleys but none with dual carbs. I have a little time yet to decide for sure. If I was smart I would put a single Dommy on it.


A single plane intake with a Dominator will make 100 hp more than a MW cross ram on a race type engine. When you think about it that means that the cross ram intake is destroying 100 hp of potential power but keeping the air and fuel from getting into the cylinders at the right time. I know that people love the look of the cross ram but sheesh, 100 hp is nothing to sneeze at. Plus the single 4bbl setup costs less and weighs less.


not disagreeing with you but the most we have ever seen on a dyno (stock eliminator engines) going from a cross ram to a single 4 is 45 hp that with changing cam shaft.

Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Jimi_Vignogna] #2048935
04/07/16 04:27 PM
04/07/16 04:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted By Jimi_Vignogna
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By Smoparmike
I agree with you! I have more experence with holleys but none with dual carbs. I have a little time yet to decide for sure. If I was smart I would put a single Dommy on it.


A single plane intake with a Dominator will make 100 hp more than a MW cross ram on a race type engine. When you think about it that means that the cross ram intake is destroying 100 hp of potential power but keeping the air and fuel from getting into the cylinders at the right time. I know that people love the look of the cross ram but sheesh, 100 hp is nothing to sneeze at. Plus the single 4bbl setup costs less and weighs less.


not disagreeing with you but the most we have ever seen on a dyno (stock eliminator engines) going from a cross ram to a single 4 is 45 hp that with changing cam shaft.


Sounds very reasonable for a stock eliminator engine. The engine where I saw 100 hp increase was 505 inches with Indy heads. The stock intake was very restrictive at 505 inches so the flow increase bigger when we switched to 4500 intake. The OP in this thread has a 505 inch engine so that is why I was using that number.

Last edited by AndyF; 04/07/16 04:28 PM.
Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2049229
04/07/16 09:37 PM
04/07/16 09:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
central ohio
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nss guy Offline
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central ohio
My motor is 499ci , little Ez 295 cnc w/2.25 intakes, small comp roller .620/.620 272/276@.050. 750 eddy's done by Dvorak . 5400 ati converter w/ 4.30 gears. Launch at 2200 shift at 6200. Weighs 3500lbs w driver.

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Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2049350
04/07/16 11:53 PM
04/07/16 11:53 PM
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Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
The engine I was working with was fairly similar to what you have. It was 505 inches and 13:1 compression. It made 620 hp with the cross ram, 705 with the Indy X ram box intake and 740 with a 440-2 intake and a Dominator carb. I think we changed cams in there too. I was using a cam that is a little bigger than what you have. Here is a link to one of the articles. The MW article is also in the tech archives:

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0709-cam-carburetor-modifications/

Re: ?Carbs for a cross ram max wedge [Re: Smoparmike] #2049365
04/08/16 12:13 AM
04/08/16 12:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
I'll just throw this out as an untested counterpoint to the 100hp loss from the factory x-ram.
I dynoed a 12:1 RB499, ported Indy -1's, .650 lift roller, 2-2 1/8 headers, OE stage II manifold, FM carter 750's.
It made 675hp like that. I didn't test any other manifolds on it, but I just don't think there was another 100hp to be had out of that motor by installing a 440-3 and a dominator.
I suppose it might have made 775hp, but I know I've built "better" motors than that before that didn't get there.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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