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#2036684 - 03/22/16 05:23 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4538
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Been seeing this post but never responded till now. Not sure if it helps now but.. I bought my 64 Plymouth in 92, it came with a 74 stock 440, torker intake, holly dp and I put a 509 cam and springs. Never been apart. Come with good vert and 4.88 gears, 14-32 tires ladder bars. I only ran 1/8 mile and ran 7.78 et at 94 mph. Don't know what hp that equates to but pretty good for a 8 to 1 comp. engine. Maybe one of the other guys can say how much. Unless the engine you buy has a lot of ring ridge, put in new rings, maybe a valve job and add ons then go with it


Edited by cudaman1969 (03/22/16 05:24 PM)

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#2036688 - 03/22/16 05:27 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
Way past that point but yes you have echoed alot of what 8ve learned.



Edited by Adam71Charger (03/22/16 05:27 PM)

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#2036922 - 03/22/16 11:34 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
SomeCarGuy Offline
master

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 8508
Loc: Someplace you aren't
If the engine cant be ran to observe stuff and a teardown isnt going to happen before hand, just see if it turns over smoothly. That's not to say it is great inside, but you can feel/hear if things are totally Fubared.
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#2037281 - 03/23/16 03:31 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
Can a machine shop get close to a zero deck without having to assemble the rotating assembly into the block? Im asking here first because so I dont confuse things in translation to the machinist.

I remember in the past the shop had to mock up the engine to get measurements before decking and that was an extra $200. Im wondering if they can measure the height of the tallest piston/rod combo and deck to that height without have to mock up the block.

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#2037347 - 03/23/16 05:35 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
JohnRR Offline
I Win

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 73560
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Can a machine shop get close to a zero deck without having to assemble the rotating assembly into the block? Im asking here first because so I dont confuse things in translation to the machinist.

I remember in the past the shop had to mock up the engine to get measurements before decking and that was an extra $200. Im wondering if they can measure the height of the tallest piston/rod combo and deck to that height without have to mock up the block.


Only if he is able to take accurate measurements of ALL the involved parts and that is time, and time is MONEY. It's going to cost you less I would imagine for the guy to drop the crank in on 3 set of bearings and move one rod/piston combo to the 4 corners of the block and measure where the high and low points are and then cut the block.

Or ask him if he'll let you do it and tell him which corner to cut and how much to cut off.
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running up my post count some more .

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#2037449 - 03/23/16 08:21 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
John I called them and they will mock and zero deck for $160, much lower than I expected. So Im gonna do it.

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#2037465 - 03/23/16 08:40 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
I called Jim at Racer Brown. Gave him the info on my engine and its intended use. about 4100lbs with driver. automatic, 3000 stall & dana 60 4:10. With the flat top pistons at zero deck, 84cc combustion chambers, bowl blended sidewinder heads, and 1.7 rockers hes grinding me a solid single pattern cam with 254 duration @50, .554" lift, and I think he said 106 LSA. and the advance will ground into the cam.


He did say my stall will work, but I should upgrade to a custom made 5000 stall by a company he recommended. He says it will actually slip less than my 3000.

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#2037473 - 03/23/16 08:54 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: LaRoy Engines]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
Originally Posted By LaRoy Engines
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Alright, after 2 weeks of waiting got the block bored and honed +30, tanked and new cam bearings. Confirmed today.

In the meantime I was able to turn a good profit on the stuff I wouldnt be re-using from the engine. So, I decided to invest in some extras.

Tod at Marsh Performance is preparing some 84cc sidewinder heads with a bowl blend and isky springs for a solid cam and is setting me up with an adjustable 1.6 rocker/shaft kit for a good price. He says the springs will handle up to low 6 lift.

Got 440 source stock replacement forged rods, got my steel crank turned 10/10, and Ive found some TRW/Speed pro 6-pack pistons #L2355F.

So this is where Im at now, picking a cam. I cant find any information online about the max lift I can use with these pistons.

Calling a few cam grinders but always like to hear ya'lls opinions on cam selection.

Will probably be close to 10:1 without touching the decks and using the felpro .039 gasket. Would like to use thinner gasket, but don't know if its wise.. In fact, Ive been urged to zero deck the block which Id love to but dont know if I can afford it.


Another example, I didn't have to recut the pistons until I went to the solid roller.

old 440 with 6-pack pistons


All your links and information has been very helpful along the way, thank you

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#2041337 - 03/29/16 04:58 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
Block has been zero decked. The machinist said they took almost .030 off. That is more than I thought it would be, when I added up the numbers.. something is off.

L2355F compression height is 2.061
Stock 440 rod length is 6.768
half stock stroke is 1.875

Total height= 2.061 + 6.768 + 1.875 = 10.704
440 Deck height is 10.725

So, the pistons should already be .021 in the hole..

Then I found the issue. The 440 Source stock replacement rods are not stock length. They are 6.76, not 6.768. Unless Im mistaken, they are shorter than a stock 440 rod by .008"

Now it makes sense, as my pistons were actually .029 in the hole

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#2041344 - 03/29/16 05:10 PM Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger]
Adam71Charger Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 1521
Loc: Tacoma, Washington USA
Almost got everything ready to assemble the short block. I was going to go with the cloyes race billet timing set, but after looking into Rollmaster, I decided to get a Rollmaster instead. It was about $50 cheaper than the Cloyes. CS5150 is the part number. it is the gold series with the IWIS chain. I also found a good deal on a set of arp main cap bolts (ARP 140-5002) so I got those too.

Sold the 699 pan, and Im looking for a pan that will work with my B body. Thinking Ill end up getting the 6qt E-body Hemi pan.

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