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Setting Six Pack Secondaries? #2007465
02/07/16 05:45 PM
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f2502011 Offline OP
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340 6 pack. I have a few references on this, but they contradict each other. When trying to set the front and rear carb it says to disconnect the linkage then place a finger over the outer air bleeds. You want to get where there is no change in idle when doing this. One source says if idle increases when you do this it is too rich and to turn the screw clockwise. The other source says the complete opposite that if idle increases when doing this it is too lean and to turn it counter clockwise. Which is correct?


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2007522
02/07/16 07:27 PM
02/07/16 07:27 PM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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well this is how I did mine (440). 1st make sure the timing and primary carb are set, then make sure your floats are set. Then adjust the rods so that at WOT the blades are all the way open. Then it is a matter of getting the correct springs. The springs are what open the outboards. My car liked the purples.


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Coming soon!!!!
Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2007529
02/07/16 07:37 PM
02/07/16 07:37 PM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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This is correct !

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Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2007538
02/07/16 07:44 PM
02/07/16 07:44 PM
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lokalik Offline
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I used the info from dayclona, I believe that idle decrease is rich, not sure, I would have to check my info. either way set the screws so that there is no idle increase or decrease. cover the bleed and try turning the screws either in or out. hope this helps. do you have the promax plates? if you want, tomorrow I can look at my info and let you know.

Last edited by lokalik; 02/07/16 07:46 PM.
Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2007543
02/07/16 07:58 PM
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f2502011 Offline OP
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My thinking is that you go ccw to increase fuel and cw to decrease fuel. Also thinking if you are blocking an air bleed it richens the mixture so if it falls off its too rich and doesn't want that much fuel. It wants more air. If you block and it speeds up it is too lean and wants more fuel. My Dayclona document is the one that contradicts this is why I'm wondering. It says the complete opposite of what I think and have read in a couple other sources.

Do you test for lean or rich with the rods and vacuum lines connected or disconnected?


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: lokalik] #2007557
02/07/16 08:41 PM
02/07/16 08:41 PM
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DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted By lokalik
I used the info from dayclona, I believe that idle decrease is rich, not sure, I would have to check my info. either way set the screws so that there is no idle increase or decrease. cover the bleed and try turning the screws either in or out. hope this helps. do you have the promax plates? if you want, tomorrow I can look at my info and let you know.




Simple rule of thumb and mental note when blocking off the outer air bleeds of the outboard carbs for F/A mixing..."If it gets RAGGED (stumples) it's rich, If it sounds MEAN (increases in idle) it's LEAN"

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2007560
02/07/16 08:45 PM
02/07/16 08:45 PM
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DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted By f2502011
My thinking is that you go ccw to increase fuel and cw to decrease fuel. Also thinking if you are blocking an air bleed it richens the mixture so if it falls off its too rich and doesn't want that much fuel. It wants more air. If you block and it speeds up it is too lean and wants more fuel. My Dayclona document is the one that contradicts this is why I'm wondering. It says the complete opposite of what I think and have read in a couple other sources.

Do you test for lean or rich with the rods and vacuum lines connected or disconnected?




Yeah, Sorry when I wrote that mis-direction of air bleed information, I later corrected it, but you probably saved the earlier tuning notes/guide

As far as the throttle linkage, just make sure the end carbs are closed, and no stress/binding is on the linkage/carb throttle plates, you can leave the vacuum lines of the secondaries in place, do disconnect and plug the distributor vacuum advance fitting on the center carb, make sure you set the A/F ratio idle of the center carb before setting up the front and rear

Mike

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2007892
02/08/16 01:08 PM
02/08/16 01:08 PM
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Harriman NY
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71GTX471 Offline
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pencils with good erasers work good for blocking off air bleeds.

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: 71GTX471] #2007931
02/08/16 02:53 PM
02/08/16 02:53 PM
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Northern Calyfornua
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Sxrxrnr Offline
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Originally Posted By 71GTX471
pencils with good erasers work good for blocking off air bleeds.


The tip of the week goes to:

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: Sxrxrnr] #2008169
02/08/16 09:09 PM
02/08/16 09:09 PM
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ThermoQuad Offline
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Go to the following link and read it. I will suggest copying it to a document so you can print it as you will need it if you want your car to run properly. If you follow this guide you will not need a pencil eraser. The information you reference is outdated.


six pack tuning guide

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: DAYCLONA] #2009745
02/11/16 10:12 AM
02/11/16 10:12 AM
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f2502011 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By f2502011
My thinking is that you go ccw to increase fuel and cw to decrease fuel. Also thinking if you are blocking an air bleed it richens the mixture so if it falls off its too rich and doesn't want that much fuel. It wants more air. If you block and it speeds up it is too lean and wants more fuel. My Dayclona document is the one that contradicts this is why I'm wondering. It says the complete opposite of what I think and have read in a couple other sources.

Do you test for lean or rich with the rods and vacuum lines connected or disconnected?




Yeah, Sorry when I wrote that mis-direction of air bleed information, I later corrected it, but you probably saved the earlier tuning notes/guide

As far as the throttle linkage, just make sure the end carbs are closed, and no stress/binding is on the linkage/carb throttle plates, you can leave the vacuum lines of the secondaries in place, do disconnect and plug the distributor vacuum advance fitting on the center carb, make sure you set the A/F ratio idle of the center carb before setting up the front and rear

Mike


Thanks for the clarification. When setting up the rod length themselves I've seen it listed differently. Service manual says do it with idle solenoid not energized. Some sources say connect the rods while solenoid is energized. Which way is best?


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2009788
02/11/16 12:18 PM
02/11/16 12:18 PM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Originally Posted By f2502011
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By f2502011
My thinking is that you go ccw to increase fuel and cw to decrease fuel. Also thinking if you are blocking an air bleed it richens the mixture so if it falls off its too rich and doesn't want that much fuel. It wants more air. If you block and it speeds up it is too lean and wants more fuel. My Dayclona document is the one that contradicts this is why I'm wondering. It says the complete opposite of what I think and have read in a couple other sources.

Do you test for lean or rich with the rods and vacuum lines connected or disconnected?




Yeah, Sorry when I wrote that mis-direction of air bleed information, I later corrected it, but you probably saved the earlier tuning notes/guide

As far as the throttle linkage, just make sure the end carbs are closed, and no stress/binding is on the linkage/carb throttle plates, you can leave the vacuum lines of the secondaries in place, do disconnect and plug the distributor vacuum advance fitting on the center carb, make sure you set the A/F ratio idle of the center carb before setting up the front and rear

Mike


Thanks for the clarification. When setting up the rod length themselves I've seen it listed differently. Some sources say connect the rods while solenoid is energized. Which way is best?


This:

Service manual says do it with idle solenoid not energized.

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: 62maxwgn] #2009805
02/11/16 12:40 PM
02/11/16 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By 62maxwgn
Originally Posted By f2502011
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By f2502011
My thinking is that you go ccw to increase fuel and cw to decrease fuel. Also thinking if you are blocking an air bleed it richens the mixture so if it falls off its too rich and doesn't want that much fuel. It wants more air. If you block and it speeds up it is too lean and wants more fuel. My Dayclona document is the one that contradicts this is why I'm wondering. It says the complete opposite of what I think and have read in a couple other sources.

Do you test for lean or rich with the rods and vacuum lines connected or disconnected?




Yeah, Sorry when I wrote that mis-direction of air bleed information, I later corrected it, but you probably saved the earlier tuning notes/guide

As far as the throttle linkage, just make sure the end carbs are closed, and no stress/binding is on the linkage/carb throttle plates, you can leave the vacuum lines of the secondaries in place, do disconnect and plug the distributor vacuum advance fitting on the center carb, make sure you set the A/F ratio idle of the center carb before setting up the front and rear

Mike


Thanks for the clarification. When setting up the rod length themselves I've seen it listed differently. Some sources say connect the rods while solenoid is energized. Which way is best?


This:

Service manual says do it with idle solenoid not energized.




Agreed, the solenoid should only be energized when setting the curb idle after all tuning of A/F ratio and linkage adjustments are made, and if you feel more comfortable removing the end carb linkage do so when setting up the A/F ratio, but still confirm the end throttle blades fully close, any debris, scale/corrosion, nicks on the throttle plates can keep them open ever so lightly that it can effect your tuning

Mike

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2009888
02/11/16 03:24 PM
02/11/16 03:24 PM
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f2502011 Offline OP
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I would like to recheck float levels. Service manual says to bring up to the bottom of the site plug hole. I'm aware the ones on the secondaries sit lower than that of the primary. Other sources I have say get clear site plugs and bring float level of center carb up to bottom of site plug hole and secondaries to middle of clear site plugs. Another says bring all up to center of clear site plugs. I don't have clear site plugs so my float levels are factory spec. First, I'm not sure which plugs to get (part #?) for Holley 2300s. I see several different options online. Second, I've read horror stories about plugs breaking off and/or dissolving/turning to mush so I'm hesitant about messing with them at all. Thoughts?


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2009945
02/11/16 05:04 PM
02/11/16 05:04 PM
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Blair County,PA
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Originally Posted By f2502011
I would like to recheck float levels. Service manual says to bring up to the bottom of the site plug hole. I'm aware the ones on the secondaries sit lower than that of the primary. Other sources I have say get clear site plugs and bring float level of center carb up to bottom of site plug hole and secondaries to middle of clear site plugs. Another says bring all up to center of clear site plugs. I don't have clear site plugs so my float levels are factory spec. First, I'm not sure which plugs to get (part #?) for Holley 2300s. I see several different options online. Second, I've read horror stories about plugs breaking off and/or dissolving/turning to mush so I'm hesitant about messing with them at all. Thoughts?


A lot of the "other" sources are hit and miss on a lot of things,do it the way the factory tells you,a lot of engineering goes into things to be right,why change it !!

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2009986
02/11/16 06:19 PM
02/11/16 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By f2502011
I would like to recheck float levels. Service manual says to bring up to the bottom of the site plug hole. I'm aware the ones on the secondaries sit lower than that of the primary. Other sources I have say get clear site plugs and bring float level of center carb up to bottom of site plug hole and secondaries to middle of clear site plugs. Another says bring all up to center of clear site plugs. I don't have clear site plugs so my float levels are factory spec. First, I'm not sure which plugs to get (part #?) for Holley 2300s. I see several different options online. Second, I've read horror stories about plugs breaking off and/or dissolving/turning to mush so I'm hesitant about messing with them at all. Thoughts?



FYI...if you decide to calibrate the fuel level with clear site plugs, they only need to be finger tight as they use an O ring to seal, otherwise you may break off the outer bezel section, then it's a bear to try and remove the threaded portion without removing the fuel bowl as a last resort



I generally find that the sixpack performs better with the float level at the center of the site window/plug esp the 340 set up, I'd start with bringing up the end carbs first, then a GOOD roadtest, then try the center carb, see how it performs under various throttle conditions, hard braking, hard launches/cornering etc, etc.... if you do buy the clear plugs, use them for setting/observing the true running fuel level, then remove them and install the brass plugs, seems the current grade of clear plastic plugs are not fuel friendly, I tend to think it's the mfg's choice in plastic, as I have some clear plug sets in several of my cars that are over 3 decades old, still intact/removable and still visible, although those sets are Moroso and not Holley, but I've had feedback from others that the Holleys are junk, so don't run with them, granted the factory method is fine for setting the fuel levels, but the clear site plug will allow you to see how the fuel level "behaves" after an actual run in the vehicle, rather than just observing a stationary idle condition watching the fluid dribble out the fill hole


The Moroso pn# is 65226, the "new" Holley GLASS site plugs (PN# 26-112) require you to drill/tap the fuel bowl to install these, the AED brand plastic plugs sold are very poor quality, I'd recommend the Moroso's for testing/calibration use

Mike

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2010117
02/11/16 09:16 PM
02/11/16 09:16 PM
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Apparently the OP and Dayclona are too smart to read the guide to tuning six paks. Probably because it does not have pencil erasers in the required tools list. I know the OP never read it because the guide explains where to set the float levels and to use the clear sight plugs very temporarily. [Setting the float levels to where it has been suggested is bad advice.]
eek

The idle stop solenoid is not required and should only be used for decoration purposes. If the car runs-on after shut off there is something wrong.

A lot of my time,40 years of tuning experience and many other talented people have contributed to the six pak tuning guide. It works and it works well, but first you have to read it... So its your choice there f2502011, flounder with your six pak or drive it with a big smile.

drive drive

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2010356
02/12/16 05:55 AM
02/12/16 05:55 AM
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Rob C Offline
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Where can I get this 6 pack tuning guide?

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: f2502011] #2010707
02/12/16 08:48 PM
02/12/16 08:48 PM
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Northern Calyfornua
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Sxrxrnr Offline
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Post 200869 above..I've had it saved on my iPad for quite some time. However for easier reference, I just printed it out. 8 pages printed both sides equals 4 sheets of paper. Also bought the rear carb tuning tool.

Very pleased with performance of six pack on my 512 engine.

However a couple of years ago, had a throttle sticking issue that drove me nuts,,,,even caused me to throw a PS belt the first time it occurred at full throttle. As there was traffic ahead, I had shoved in the clutch before turning off ignition switch. Engine likely hit valve float range before getting it shutdown. When starting car and driving off, no PS. Looked under the hood, no belt. Took me a couple trips up and down the street,,,couple blocks,,,before spotting in gutter.

Spent a lot of time trying to figure why was sticking open. Checking linkages, springs, vacuum hoses etc. Happened several times,,,learned to turn off switch really fast before clutching it. Talk off paranoia, I would not even consider smashing the throttle unless I had an empty mile in front of me.

Posted issue on this forum to no success.

Finally found the problem. Accelerator pedal pivots as a teeter totter. If when stepping on it hard and my toe caused the bottom of the pedal to hit the floor first,,,it would 'catch' on one of the 'ribs' of the floormat's heel pad. Trimmed it off a bit and all is well.

Shades of Toyota and their runaway Prius's.

I now have my MSD set to a 6,200 max rpm.

Re: Setting Six Pack Secondaries? [Re: Rob C] #2010711
02/12/16 08:53 PM
02/12/16 08:53 PM
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Harrisburg, Pa.
screamindriver Offline
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Originally Posted By Rob C
Where can I get this 6 pack tuning guide?
C'mon don't ask a silly question like where to get the guide Tom is a busy guy and does'nt have time to link his own stuff...He only has time to cut down and degrade all the members here..He's way better than all of us and we should be happy he just posts here regardless of the condescending remarks that makes everyone sick every time he graces us with his presence...{If you must know the link is about 10 replies up from this}

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