I have a number of cars and since I work 2 weeks out of town sometimes when I get around to driving them I have to spin them a minute to pick up fuel to fire. It doesn't occur if it is driven regularly and it's not like it spins enough to kill a battery but I do feel it takes it toll on starters. It happens to everything from 2 to 6 barrell, Holley and otherwise and all of the big 3. Generally only 3-4 weeks at worst between being driven. I have considered that it is the ethanol evaporating causing even the bowls to be dry.

Thanks in advance, Kevin

ever think of an electric fuel pump?

1 to 2oz of gas down the carb is easy enough...

Not if it is a shaker hood car.

Its not hard to take a bubble off is it?

I use a repop bubble most the time and the org. when I want to go nice.

What I can take mine off in less then 5 minutes and would be a better option then dry cranking a motor X amount of times a year. Screw a cheap starter, id worry about the internals

Really id look to other reasons as I dont think it happens with everyone, a good mech fuel pump, and a good battery and some of my junk still starts after a year, yes a year.

With the thousands we dump in our cars I still laugh when people complain about our cheap fuel, buy a 55 gallon drum each year and mix it with pump junk.

Aeromotive makes a check valve,but not integrated with a filter. I'm sure there are others.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/aei-15106/overview/

Don't want to put an electric pump on most of the cars for a number of reasons and no doubt I could prime them but I really don't know why I should have to. They all have aftermarket stock pumps and clear fuel filters. It's not a huge deal but mainly irritating cause I like my cars to work right. The one with the least trouble is my dually which is a GM with a Q-jet, it has the carb filter with the check valve and even after a month or so it fires after minimal spinning. I'm reasonably sure I'm not the only one with this issue and I'm thinking surely someone make an inline filter with a check valve.

I don't think a ck.valve will solve your problem I think its a matter of the carbs drying out & need refilling.

I have considered that due to the ethanol boiling but I thought I might try it. They don't sit long enough for generic evaporation but with the heat and ethanol maybe. Strangely enough if doesn't do it if I start them the next day with one exception but it's a Ford so who knows what it's issue is.

Time for all new fuel lines, hoses, hose clams and maybe a new fuel pump.

I suppose the fuel could evaporate from the carb, it has air bleeds that could allow evaporation, (the bowl vent has a hose going to the carbon canister to collect the fumes, right?) The fuel has to be draining back through the pump to make the line between the pump and carb empty. Otherwise it shouldn't take very long for a good fuel pump to refill the carb, unless there was no fuel at the pump. I don't see the fuel flowing back up into the tank, which is often higher then the line. (The fuel line is higher then the tank where it run above the rear axle before dropping down to the frame rails) The section of fuel line above the axle should stop and fuel from returning into the tank between it and the pump. If the fuel can't return to the tank, the fuel line, hoses, or hose clamps must be leaking, or the pump is leaking fuel, or is too weak to move the fuel like it should, otherwise where did the fuel go? Gene

Well the new parts describe half the cars, only one of the cars was born with a charcoal canister and it is disabled. My guess is that the aftermarket pumps, most of which are new, don't have check valves in them allowing the fuel to drain back, further I think the fuel may be boiling in the line running on the frame rail by the exhaust manifold (factory, everything correctly located and in good shape). The key may be in the quality of fuel which I haven't completely resolved in my head. Most are parked on level surfaces so the line hiegths are correct and prevent drain back into the tank. No fuel leaks that are noticeable under pressure. Not arguing with the ideas just thinking through then out loud. I need to start looking at the fuel filters before fire up to make sure it is what I think it is but I cant imagine it can be anything else the way they act.

I have the same problem. See through filters mounted code to and slightly above the pumps will tell the tale.

Yes fuel evap from the carbs is going to happen but a good pump will overcome that quickly.

Worst I saw was anew pummp on a cj5, it would go epty in a matter of minutes.

My 340 Dart does the same thing. I have a Carter "performance" mechanical pump and the new mini starter. That combo gets fuel to the carb pretty quick.

That would be an incorrect assumption. Fuel isn't going to drain uphill, through your needle and seat to leave the carb. Yet when you go to start your car after it's been sitting for weeks there's no fuel in the bowls, requiring much cranking to refill them enough to fire the car. At starter rpm, mechanical pumps don't seem to refill the carbs all that quick. Fuel's evaporating out of your carb, it happens to all of us with this modern pump swill they call gasoline. A check valve won't do anything for you. My last two carbed vehicles I changed over to electric fuel pumps. All my fueling trouble vanished. Turn the key to run for a few seconds so the electric pump can fill the bowls, pump the gas and hit the key. Doesn't get any easier than that.

What Daytona Turbo said !!! It is totally the fuel evaporating out of the carb. I have found that going with premium fuel (non-ethanol) makes a HUGE difference. Yet, even having the cars sit for weeks, there is still some fuel evaporation. As was said, solution = electric fuel pump ! I too have tried a check valve inline - no difference, its the ethanol based fuel that evaporates way too quickly out of the bowls. Non-ethanol premium makes a difference !! Just my two cents . . .

Cheers

Mark

I found even with ethanol free premium my carb was evaporating out in under a week.

This!

With four cars, only the /6 car will start quickly after a month. For the three 318 cars, I keep gas in a used mustard bottle, with a squirt down the carb throat they always start.

X 3

Might just try some high octane mustard.

OK, I know the fuel is junk for the most part but I wasn't putting that much creedance in it was just the fuel since others seem to react better than others, all in the same parking conditions. I have 110 leaded out of the pump hear, I might try it in a few cars for a tank and see how they act.

I'm not adding electic pumps to most of my cars so that's a no car, is there any additive that has been proven to work? Any that claim to work?

Thanks for the input folks.

DaytonaTurbo you mentioned about electric fuel pumps, what are you using?? I probably don't mind adding one but from having an electric Carter super pump in a 440 Charger some 30 years ago all I can remember is an annoying humming coming from the pump, wondering if there is a quieter one out there.

Too bad someone doesn't make one that looks and mounts like a regular pump and had a single wire that could be routed on the K-member to be inconspicuous. That I would do to most any of them. Where's Mike Ross, he likes to develop good produces for us, maybe he can take this on and I'll only need 2% of the profits for the idea.

You want to mount them back by the tank. Electric pump are better pushers than pullers. Also, keeping the fuel pressurized for the length of the car, rather than under vacuum also solves a whole hose of vapor lock and suction leak problems.

I have run several different types of electric pumps on everything from v8`s to carbed 4cyl engines and I can`t hear them when the engine is running. I mount them back near the tnak, and I rubber isolate them so there are no common bolts between the pump and the frame. This cuts down on a lot of noise. Rubber P-clamps and/or a foam sleeve make all the difference.

Why not add a priming electric pump that runs in parallel to a check valve, with a 5 second timer off of the ignition, it will fill the bowls and crank if you just turn on the key and wait to crank. Tim

I know I could use a typical electric pump but I really don't want to add wires and brakcets to my AAR or even either of the RTs. I'm aware they are better pushers and your point about pressurizing the entire line is logical. My thought of the pump on the engine is more from an appearance stand point not to mention there isn't a heavy fuel pressure requirement but in some cases a volume concern with a pump but I would think most any quality electric pump would out perform a stockish mechanical pump.

The other issue I am fighting is why should I have to do anything they worked fine for years and I guess the answer there is the fuel is way worse than I thought and/or I am becoming more in tune to the issue since it is longer between driving each of them now. I'm in PA for a couple of weeks again but I will start experimenting with different fuels when I get home. The Coronet has good fuel in it now so it will be a good test sitting for 2 weeks.

You can put a pump up front but it is not going to survive very well , all you really need the pump for, it seems , is to prime the carbs on initial start up , Mr Gasket makes one that is in line and that would probably fill that need and you could mount it to something that is already back there and out of the way fairly easily, wiring will not require anything that requires modifying your precious cars ...

[/soapbox]this attitude is why there is very little to no aftermarket support for Mopars , the owners won't do anything that is non stock and then [censored] and complain because there is no aftermarket support.[/soapbox]



Dear Mr. Van Winlke,
Gasoline is formulated now, thanks to the GUBERMINT, to work in cars with CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM, they don't even vent to atmosphere. Our precious cars are a blip on the radar screen, the gubermint doesn't care about us, adapt or live with it, these are our ONLY choices.

i seriously don't remember our cars starting any easier back in the day of 'quality' gas after sitting a week or so. probably just my crappy tuning skills though.....

Bottom line is either live with it or install an electric pump. After having in recent years daily driven my jeep with a carb, manual choke and electric fuel pump, I wouldn't set up a carbed vehicle any other way. I found I started having issues if I let mine sit for any more than a few days. Like others have said, a squirt bottle and some gas or some ether will do it.

Well ya'll have convinced me that the check valve issue is probably off base although the one that behaves the best is a GM with a Q-jet that has a check valve filter in the inlet. An electric fuel pump in the rear would require power to be run back to it which isn't the end of the world but I really don't want to do and I'm a little concerned about running an inline pump that runs all the time without a return line, the concern being that it will overpower the needle and seats. Hopefully I will see liveable results with good fuel.

How about this for an idea, I have used a gas cap with a tire valve stem in it in the past to pressurize the tank for starting a flow to drain the tank, what if I used that cap and put about 10 lbs. of pressure to the tank to get the fuel to the engine fast on the first start up. Maybe 5 lbs is better. I might try that on a lesser car to see how it works just incase something doesn't work.

Thanks for the input folks, i have been living with it and will no doubt continue to, no way am I gonna stop driving my cars.

So you ignored my post about using a 5 second timer relay...to run the priming pump

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/75545/InPower-VCM-05-10SA-One-Shot-Solid-State-Relay-/

The Q-jet check/filter is AC Delco GF471F or GM part number 88915476. Maybe you should buy one and see what makes it tick.

R.

No I didn't ignore it, it was just a day or so since I read it so I HAD forgotten it. I understand that is how the modern systems energize and the ones I am familiar with then get a signal from the distributor to run once the engine is spinning. But again it adds wiring I don't care to add.

A 6psi pump is not going to overpower the needle and seat .

As far as pressurizing the tank, that is not going to work because the tank is vented to atmosphere. You'll never pressurize it and 10psi would definitely overpower the needle and seat.

A short blast of starting fluid sprayed into the filter would probably get you enough to fill the bowls for a restart?

So I'm clear about this: You don't want to run a wire and an electric fuel pump that will solve your problem, but you willing to dump raw fuel into your motor, or spray either into the air cleaner assembly, or add a GM inline fuel filter to your Mopar? Because originality is so important, or adding a wire and electric fuel pump is so difficult? UM, OK!
You better just leave it in the garage, so you won't hurt your investment by driving it, then the poor start won't be an issue. Gene

I prefer mine to crank a while as it helps build oil pressure seeing as that drains back as well.

If you only knew how funny that was........ I have said nothing about dumping fuel (I assume you are talking about priming) or or ether (I believe it is actually too dry and isn't good for any motor) although others have suggested it, The GM filter comment was simply pointing out an example of one in use and the way it started. I do like orginality on certain cars but really love the day 2 thing and as for difficult, I'm not thinking installing an inline, frame mounted or in tank pump would be an issue for me at this point. And as for leaving it in the garage to protect my investment, I have taken my most expensive investment (which I bought in about 15 boxes and assembled from a bare shell to driving status in about 6 months, 90% of the aparts are original to the car, it only had 59K on it), anyway I have driven it about 12,000 miles in the last 18 months including a maiden voyage of 4400 miles and a second trip of 3500 miles. Not to mention I'm not afraid to drop the clutch on any and all of them at 3-4 grand 1000 miles from home. As for the rest of my fleet, my newest vehicle is my dually which is a 88 square body Chevy with the Q-jet on it. Any given week I drive 3-4 true 4 speed muscle cars over 45 years old and average 2-300 miles in the week just riding for no reason at all. So forgive me when I smirk at your suggestion that I should leave any of my cars in the garage for fear of hurting my "investments". A survior should be protected, any restored car can be restored again no reason not to enjoy the devil out of them. Not measuring but very few on this board have the seat time I have, either in the last 35 years of driving or the last 5 or the last year.

The only reason for a filter to have a check valve would be because the needle and seat is level with the upper level of the fuel , the only Mopar carb I can think of that has an issue close to that ... off the top of my head ... would be the carter BBD 2bbl ??

Even if the OP was able to adapt/find a filter with a check valve it would do nothing other than lighten his wallet, and waste his time.

I have a can of ether that has top cylinder lubricant ... unless the can is lying to me ???

Yea, I'm off the check valve thought and will start trying better fuel when I get home. I'll report back the results just to finish the thread. Have heard of ether with lubricant but that would negate all the negative I've heard about it over the years. I had a mud truck that I called druggy that thing refused to start with ether back in the day, even if it sat for a half hour while someone else was in the hole I'd have to shut it. I didn't really care about that engine so I didn't care what I did to it. That is the one I would pressurize the tank on to drain it from time to time, it would pressurize to the point that you could hear the tank flex, the vent must have been stopped up with mud.

I do appreciate all the input folks.

Same here.

Check valve in the filter holds that well since I they don't go long enough between start ups for that to be an issue .............. that I'v noticed anyway, I have to spin them to crank them so the oil pressure is good by the time it fires.

OK, don't laugh me out of the room. It's not original and you'd probably want to hide it, but how 'bout trying a primer ball like on a boat's fuel system. Open the hood, squeeze it a couple times, and crank it up...

Strangely enough, that thought did cross my mind, but in the end I could concile a power wire to a pump more easily.

Anyone recommend an inline pump that doesn't require mounting? IE would fit in the rubber hose like na inline filter. Restricting flow when it was off would also be a concern.

It seems like mopar346's problem has been answered. It's evaporation.

I'd like to add priming SHOULD not be pouring fuel down the venturi. That is a good method of drying off the cylinder walls. Especially when 90% of us will be pouring in way too much. Use a squirt bottle to add 10 or 20 mL into the front bowl. Then you can control the pump shot with the throttle just before you crank.

As for spinning the starter with to build fuel and oil pressure. I'm also guilty of doing this in the past but when you consider oil will not reach the piston rings, wrist pins and walls. Instant fire up is better for engine life.

My front bowl isn't attached to pump to shoot.

I busted off my Coronet today after a 2 week sleep, it is the one I put a tank of high(er) octane non-ethanol in before I left. Pushed the pedal twice and spin it, busted right off. I'll try a different car this week.

Then you understand which bowl to fill.

I filled the tank of the AAR today with the good stuff, I'll let it sit for a week or so and see how it acts and report back.