What is the prefered brand and how has it been holding up?

Braile.
Keep it charged by running it often without sitting for longer than three months idled and you are good.
I have one now for a couple of years. The last one I let sit for all Winter and it went bad by not holding a charge.

I have a hard time stepping away from a conventional lead acid or AGM battery. Anytime a mainstream battery comes out that has higher CCA or high Reserve capacity they don't get smaller or lighter. You're giving up something when you go with a smaller lightweight battery and most of that is going to be reserve capacity. If I were to run one of the little lightweight batteries I would only use it on the track and use a regular battery for the road.

I have seen some of the high $$$ batteries come through our recycle pallets(I manage a battery distributorship) and I have pulled some out and charged them with success. The Lithium motorcycle batteries can throw down some serious power and they charge very fast. However I am curious what caused someone to throw away a $300-400 battery in the first place. Some of the "special high performance" batteries are just motorcycle or wheelchair batteries wrapped up in a fancy label for twice the money. I have seen some stinger brand batteries that are just a 18ah jump box battery that you could by from me for $60 RETAIL.

Race Car Only, lightwieght makes a lot of sense, since you have a street car you have way more to consider. Like starting your car at a gas station in cornville USA when it is 100* outside.

I like my 5 year old yellow top Optima but my car sure does need to lose some weight.

I have been looking at the same thing, especially as I just found my red top to be dead.

Didn't find much on the Bullet either.

Same here... being a street rod I will sacrifice a
bit of weight for a good dependable battery that
will support the starts... and a good alt that has
enough for night time driving.... just put the weight
of the battery where its needed.. in back

I looked into this for racing , running without an alternator and using mechanical alky injection, so there is no fuel pump draw as well as no cooling fan draw. With what I need to run the ignition, water pump and restart to move up in line, a small Optima is as small as I can get away with and make two rounds. After that the percent of charge is too low for another run. Those two runs are consistent, by the way. Figure you need twice the reserve for actual good function in an auto. Below about 50 percent charge and the car may/probably will go below minimum ignition voltage requirements just to get it started. I decided it wasn't worth considering after looking at the numbers for these small batteries and knowing what I need.

There is a thread on YB about lithium batteries in the electrical section if you want to read up. This company offers the most economical lithium battery I have seen.

http://golithium.com/

I prefer to just stay 12 volt.

I run 2 Orbital gel batteries and would rather have the wt. where I need it in the pass. side of my trunk PLUS, you get twice the cranking power and better hook. If it`s in the ft. then it makes more sense.......

I really don't believe in the weight where you need it thing. Maybe because I'm just slow but I never really have a hook problem so I would rather just be lighter. Thump, your way lighter than me, not exactly sure how but if I could just lose 200 lbs I would be thrilled

I have had great luck with Lithium Pro and light weight XS batteries but both are 16 volt. We run an light weight Odyssey in the heads up car, it weighs 14lbs. Same battery was used in the car when it was a street car and never an issue. We are changing it out this year as since it has become a race only car and has 8 O2's it is just not as happy as it used to be. We ran a small 12 volt Turbo Start in it the last race of the year and there were zero issues. I have also used that battery in the dragster with no issues.

I gutted as much as I could at the time and have no under dash cowl ducting and cut here and there till I got burned out.......Was 3050 w/12 gallons of fuel and one batt. but it spun and didn`t feel right so back in the 2nd batt. went and I`ll weigh it again here soon and see where we`re at........

maybe you have a cable, starter or ground problem goin on. Hell, I was thinking if you got one of those light batterys, Just put it back up front and pull all the heavy cable back out of the car

I have one better.
Start the car, hand over the battery to a buddy in the burnout box and go down strip with nothing. The most lightweight battery system known to man. LOL

Race cars take very little power to RUN........they take lots of power to START. If you have the appropriate alternator, those huge batteries with lots of reserve power, is just carrying weight for no reason. You need cranking amps and the appropriate alternator.

Have a friend who runs a twin turbo, big block radial car, on gas(which means intercooler and needed pumps) on two RC helicopter batteries banded together. The batteries weigh 3lbs.......for the PAIR

Most starting problems are the result of poor wiring and over 50% of cars are poorly wired. That big 00 starter cable does you ZERO good, if your ground cable is a 4 gauge cable, with a bolt run through an eyelet somewhere in the trunk. The cable is too small, the starter is NOT in the trunk and your chassis is one of the WORST conductors there is. The most bad azz starter in the world and a diesel truck battery won't fix that. The ground side MUST be as good as the hot side........few are

What! 3 lbs?

Yep, 3lbs for the pair. They are from a remote control helicopter. The whole thing is less than the size of a Coke can and the car carries NO alternator. Like everything else, battery technology is growing in leaps and bounds, but most tend to do what they always have, instead of embracing technology

My junk likes the wt. in the back but this is good info for sure...........

Maybe........maybe not. The weight in the trunk, gives it more rear percentage.........but with less rear percentage, the "hook" issue may have just as easily been fixed with shock adjustments and hitting the tire harder.

Too many guys try something a couple times and then conclude "well, that didn't work". You always have to keep in mind, that when you change ONE thing, that may require you to change something else, to get the most benefit from change ONE. Seldom if EVER, is loosing weight from the car a bad change. Just may take a tweak elsewhere to optimize that change

Monte,

Based on your quote above how would your wire your start circuit? Cable/wire size etc. matt

Understood, and my first 1/8th mile outing after the wt. removal and only one batt. sucked and spun like never before but still went 6.20 at 111+ mph so ya I need more seat time but again, too fast for a bar so,..........

I run a Braille, weighs 17#. I've had it about 2 years, street and strip.

Same one I am running for two years now.
The first one conked out on me after sitting too long disconnected in a modestly cold garage. I put a tender on it and it came to life, but never was the same ever again.
I was then told by Braile techs that it should sit no longer than 3 months and then put a Braile tender on it to keep it topped off. They also said that usually when disconnected, they will hold for longer, but still good to top off and keep fresh.
I used to have a US Post office truck battery in its place that weighed close to 65 Lbs.

I like quality 00 cables, with GOOD ends on them. Although I hate it, many insist on grounding the battery to the frame. If you choose to do that, you also need to run a 00 ground cable TO the starter, or at least the engine block, directly from the battery. On the HOT side, I also run 00 cable to a quality starter solenoid, such as a constant duty liftgate solenoid and then 00 from that to starter motor. People need to remember that factory starter solenoids are not rated for constant duty and are also not rated to crank your high compression motor. Do you need a constant duty........NO, but they are better quality and rated for more amp draw.......Another place where big cables, do no good if the solenoid won't pass the juice. The entire starter system needs plenty of flow from hot to ground, with no restrictions or loss of amperage...........It's NOT about voltage. A 00 cable and a speaker wire both carry 12 volts, only one of those will crank your car though

Monte.
R u saying that a 00 ground cable stretching all the way from the negative side/ground of the battery in the trunk and ran all the way to the front to either the starter or the block?

Or are you referring to when the battery is mounted up front in the stock tray position and closer to the starter/engine block?

They don't get any lighter than this and they will start a 720ci aircraft engine several times before needing charging.

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.co...2&keyType=P

I know my starting system is wired correctly and
I WONT pay pay BIG bucks for a battery.. I'll deal
with the few pounds extra from the battery and loose
the weight elsewhere..the street rod is 2920 with me
and 18 gals of fuel and a real battery that was $43
at Costco... if I want less weight.. I'll run 3 gals
of fuel instead of 18 gals... even then I most likely
wouldnt run that low because I'm too lazy to add fuel
every run..... but to each their own if that floats
your boat

Yes sir

If you can't run the ground cable to the starter itself, mount it as close as possible, and on the same side as the starter. Electricity flows through some very strange places at times. Also run redundant grounds from the engine block to the frame, and battery to the frame. I use a minimum of 10 ga. wire, but prefer 8 ga. for these.

This how mine is wired. A faulty on/off switch will screw the whole thing up as I experienced last year, but there are less places to look when wired this way. On the Racepac, my voltage and amperage never fluctuates unless something rattles loose, or something breaks like the On/Off switch.

I wired my latest car this way. It starts better then any car I have ever had with just a 12 volt system. I'm a believer. I also didn't use any chassis grounds either. I had a couple junction blocks on the big battery cable and tied everything back to it. All electronics ground back to the battery. Then if using an alternator and trunk battery use a cable. I see people make the mistake of having a battery in the trunk, and alternator up front and using a 10 guage wire to connect them.

The problem lies with the fact that a LARGE percentage of guys simply do NOT understand electricity and how it works. They do not understand the ENTIRE circuit has to be up to the task and that the ENTIRE circuit includes the ground side.

I see NICE cars all the time with a 3 dollar, 4 gauge cable from Auto Zone, that runs from the battery to the chassis and that's IT for ground. The guy is scratching his head wondering why it won't start and nothing works right.

Many have NO idea how a relay works, why you need one, or even what it is........much less how to wire the durn thing. It's pitiful.

I covered in another thread, that the chassis is about the WORST thing you can use as a ground, yet guys continue to do it..........why? Because of the proliferation of "old school" guys who come and say "well, I have done it that way for 40 years and had zero problems".........whatever, fine, good for you, but what works and what works better are two different things. I can get my clothes clean beating them on a rock, but a washing machine works better

What Monte says is correct. Modern cars are so electrical dependent that they require multiple grounds along the length of the chassis.There are many modules along the length of the car that perform electrical "TASKS"and need their own ground. Have you looked at the + and - cables that come off the battery. They are not 1 or 2 gauge more like 4 or 6. Many of these cars have electrical problems that show up as mechanical/computer issues but most are ground related. Cars now have bus'( traffic lights that control the flow of computer info) that control the micro pulses of all the computers that run everything including the heater control valves and air supply dams. You would think that all those engineers would know better Remember that a car is a device that uses electricity to produce a function and rides on 4 very large rubber insulating blocks. Now back to the battery question. For stock eliminator, you must keep a battery in the factory location in the engine bay. I don't remember what size but any parts store will give the info for a battery that is used in a Honda. Smallest, lightest and cheapest.

A buddy of mine has been after me to move my battery to the trunk of my Dart for some time now. Unless something changes when the new engine goes in I don't see it's worth the trouble and expense. I run a group 24 and have never had any start issues. I would like to upgrade the charging system though.

The one thing most are not grasping here is.. once
you start the car.. you can throw that battery away..
each component needs its own ground so they can talk
to one another... the alt runs the car and recharges
the battery after the start... put a GOOD alt on it

Monte, I know before you have said that you have nothing in the trunk of the GN. where do you have the battery? I'm really thinking about putting a light weight in and moving it back near the front but...then there is no master cutoff unless you run the wires all they back to the trunk anyway

Mount the switch up front and use a LONG Morse cable to the back. Works great, no long cables needed.

Batt is in pass side floor, as close as I could get it to firewall. Pro-Lite, weighs 9lbs. The master disconnect is mounted inside car as well, with a lever on it that Chad can reach from the seat. Also has a very light Morse type cable that run to back to satisfy the "push" switch rules

Another pic............don't have one of switch

Guys, I'm one of those guys that is a stumble block head when it comes to electrical stuff.
Lighten a car? you got me 110 percent.
Electrical? Blackout.

Right now, I've got my battery grounded to the frame (clean connections and all) with thick 00 cable and then my engine block is grounded with waived ground straps in two places up front. My hot cable from the cut/off switch-battery goes to the front firewall where it is connected to a junction box or terminal box and then from there to the starter. Is this good?
Is this thread about the MSD or any ignition box not getting all the juice it could? or is this just all about starting?

2/0 high quality cable/wire from the (-) battery lug, directly to the engine block. from that point, fan off of that to your solid copper ground bar/strap for all of your negative connections.

I prefer 2/0 Anchor copper cable. You can buy it from West Marine, however make sure to have the battery lugs crimped on with a hydraulic lug crimper, and use the Anchor heat shrink.

Since current flows from negative to positive, your ground/negative cable is very important. Also, ground the battery to the frame in the trunk as well.

I also prefer to use the Ford style solenoid to attach my Positive cable from the battery switch to this solenoid. That also includes a 2AWG from the main positive on the solenoid lug to your Positive junction point for all of your electronics. Making sure that the junction his also high quality Copper.

Good luck...Mark

That`s how mine is and it cranks/starts fine and charges at 14.7 when it fires...........I also use a Ford relay directly to the starter.......

It may work fine.......and that may be the way many people have done it since the beginning of time.........but it also doesn't mean there isn't a better way. The chassis itself is a POOR conductor of electricity

appreciate everyone's help. I pulled the trigger on a 21 lber. An 18 lb loss in weight. Also have some lightweight negative cable on the way. I've never had any problems but I'm going to listen to Monte and run a ground up front

Depends on the chassis. A unibody might be a poor conductor but anything with a cage in it should be just fine. Even a set of frame connectors will tie the rear subframe to the front subframe and give the battery a low resistance ground path to the front of the car. Easy enough to check with an ohm meter.

Well, I'm in the lottery then because I have both subframe connectors welded in and a 12 point roll bar welded in.
Hemi-itis today by the way mentioned the roll bar/cage as being a good ground to think about.

Good point. Perhaps uni-------bodies that are not tied together (ie: Restored or original muscle car chassis)would probably benefit from not having any undercoat applied or it doesn't matter?

One thing I do know is that when ever I perform any welding duties on the car itself, I disconnect and remove entirely the battery, Alternator and especially the MSD ignition box.

People who know way more than me, have told me that a chassis, even a full tube chassis, is a very poor ground connector. Top level cars are NOT wired that way. They are wired with a "floating ground" and the chassis is not part of the equation.

Monte, I agree 100%. But did you notice on the Challengers, Chargers, 300's, the batteries are in the trunk and they all have the thinnest ground wire you've ever seen screwed to the frame rail. The Jeep Grand Cherokee has the battery under the passenger seat. I'm pretty sure the ground cable doesn't go all the way up to the engine block either.

How do you tie lights in to your floating ground? So if I remember correctly battery ground to ground strip and everything grounded to it. No chassis ground but one to motor, this correct?

The battery is for starting.. all of the sensors
on the car have a common ground so they can talk
to each other.. the alt runs the car and recharges
the battery

We wire are junk with floating grounds.

Keep us posted on your impressions. the Braille 21 lb unit?

What lightweight cable did you go with?

there is someone on this site that sent me a link to the exact battery without the Braille sticker and $140 cheaper.

The lightweight cable I bought is the accel lightning brand but I just bought the negative cable


Just got home and battery and cable are here. My red top weighs 41, my new battery and 20ft of cable weigh 24. I can make a new bat box and shed some weight there also

Might check RJ Racecars/Quartermax on battery cable pricing. Not sure how it compares but where we buy ours at.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-li...ka-battery.html

Older post on an STI site, but info still seems valid.

Prices are coming down on the lithium. I just ordered an Antigravity ATX20 Battery for $369 with free shipping. 780 cca, 25 amp hours, under 5 pounds. It's getting mounted on the inside of the framerail, very close to the starter to save the weight and voltage drop of long cables. They said a standard alternator will charge it fine, as long as it doesen't discharge to under 10.5 volts. If it goes under 10.5V, it shuts off and a special charger is needed to wake it up. So I am putting a sensitive digital voltmeter in the car.
I have a 7 year old dyna-batt that is 14 pounds and will start a car, but I don't trust it 100%. So I will build the battery box to fit the anti gravity and the dynabatt, and bring the dyna for a spare.

I'll let you know how it works out.

I'm in the process of building a new car and it will be getting a Lithium battery as well.

We have 1 local racer that has been running one on a sponsorship deal for about 2 years now in a street strip car with great success. It's a 14 volt battery and weighs 14 pounds. Standard alternator, but does take a "special" 10 amp charger that you can get for $35.

Did they mention how the CCA number was achieved? Some of those companies reference a pulse CCA which is done on a 5 second scale as opposed to a 15 second test. The 25 amp hour seems low for the CCA but I am not familiar with the lithium stuff.

I did not investigate how they test cca. It wouldn't mean much to me anyway. All I care about is will it start the car and stay charged from the alternator.

Most of the LI batteries like Joel mentioned are rated differently than normal lead acid car batteries. They stop the test when voltage drops to 10 volts on LI batteries as I recall, while SAE tests used on lead acid batteries normally run them all the way down to 7.2 volts.

Mu Lithium battery weighs 10lbs and spins the motor over like nothing else ever has. I had two XS 16 volts in it and it was ok. Put in the single Lithium battery and it spins like nothing I have ever heard. That's a 605" BB with 60MM Babbit bearing, 15.8-1 compression and 1300+lbs of open valvespring pressure. In other words it takes a LOT of effort to spin her over.

Al, what Lithium battery are you using?

My current one is a Lithium Pros unit. There are a lot of lithium batteries out there for sure these days. I have heard good and bad about most. My best advice is buy a battery and charger from the same manufacturer and follow their directions religiously. They will go to "sleep" after sitting for long periods of time and some can be a PITA to "wake up". Been there done that..

Al,
Which which Lithium Pro battery are you using?
Thanks,
Bill

I have an L1600A, the reason was the size it fits the battery box that is in the car, also have their charger.

Right on the case it says something about max charge at 12A. How big of an alternator you running?

I was seriously looking into LiFePO4 batteries, until my Optima died on the road a few weeks ago and I replace it with a Deka AGM.

LiFePO4 is more stable that Li-Ion, and you can get batteries that have built in BMS and can take higher charge rates. The only downside was the reserve capacity...

Keep us posted Joel!

I have a 105 amp alternator. I'm no electronical genius, but it is my understanding that the regulator keeps the voltage at a level that will not overcharge the battery. It won't generate enuff voltage to force 105 amps of current flow into a battery that only wants 12 amps.

I just picked up one of these for my Sport Bike:

EarthX Batteries

It's stunning how light it is and how fast it spins my 12:1 750 "L" twin. Also, they have a built-in microprocessor that manages the battery.

Very happy with it and will be running one in the car in the future.

I have a pair of 12V Odyssey PC925 Batterys wired in parallel they are 17# each, Dry Cell so they can be mounted on their side if needed,
around 150.00 eaCH

I do run a alternator and put them on maintainers when not in use.

I was looking at the ETX1200 for my street car. I was close to pulling the trigger, but the battery died unexpectedly on a road trip, so now I have a new battery...haha

Do you know the name of the company? And it's 14 volts?

http://www.intellapower.com/220-project.html

I thought I would resurrect this thread. What are the current thoughts on Lithium batteries? I am intrigued by the EarthX batteries for an NHRA Stock car, but was also considering a 16 volt system. I would be interested to here your experiences.
Thanks, Rod

I have been using a Lithium Pros battery and charger with zero issues. When I first made the switch I had a charger issue, they replaced the charger and battery free of charge. Very happy with it and NOTHING will crank your car over faster. I could not believe how much faster it was than the std XS 16 volt I had in the car.

I designed a small battery shelf for my Duster to hold a lightweight battery. It seems to work just fine. I used it during the summer in my Coronet and it spun the engine over just fine.

Simply put , if all the current required cannot pass through the circuit the cables will overheat and that heat ADDs resistance and reduces the current available to cover the load, it's all interrelated.

Generally though the Ground cable doesn't need to be as large as the Positive cable so long as the length is short and it has solid continuity/connection to the frame.

1/0 AWG welding lead is great cable for line/load connections, it is fine stranded and when used with Crimp connectors makes for a solid air tight connection for all the electrons to flow.

Especially with low voltage systems any resistance at all decreases the energy (current) available dramatically. It's not as much the size of the ground but more the quality of the ground.

OK, here is my update:

I installed the antigravity battery in my hot rod coupe, along with a 105 amp GM alternator. Then I did some street driving, a couple drag strip tests, then completed Drag Week 2018.
I love my little 4.5# AntiGravity battery! It performed flawlessly. With the powermaster starter, it cranked my 13:1, 468" hemi over like the plugs were out of it. Except one time it wouldn't start the car when I forgot the radiator fan on for about 40 minutes. It did not get low enuff to put the battery to sleep. If it does go to sleep, you need a special charger to wake it up. I brought the special charger along on Drag Week, plus a jumper pack that has a built in 110 volt inverter/outlet. So I could plug the charger into it and wake up the battery if it ever got ran that far down.

Not only did I save the weight of the battery, I saved about 20# of cable by mounting the battery a foot away from the starter on the inside of the frame rail, instead of in the trunk. The NHRA mandated battery cut off switch is right there too, with the lever of it on the floor inside the car where I can reach it if I forget to turn it on. A 3/8" x .030" wall stainless steel tube runs from the lever, back through the trunk and out the back of the car as a remote control for the switch. That is much lighter than a Morse cable.

Bottom line, I liked my battery so much, I started down the path of becoming a dealer for them. But their terms regarding liability and indemnification for dealers were unacceptable to me, so I passed on that opportunity, but I still love their battery's.